Winter fishing yes/no

[Stizzla]

I could care less about my credibility. The guys who have to send back wild coho after wild coho just to get their hatchery fish is pointless. How many wilds die each fall just to get a limit of hatchery fish. Kill your 2..stop fishing end of story.
Are you to short sighted to think outside the box Chris?

I think the problem isn’t the fishermen realeasing the wild coho, it’s the stupid DFO rule that makes us do it.
There’s clearly no shortage of wild coho in September, so why can’t we just catch 2 and cash out?

I think it’s because they **** the bed on every other fishery, so they are trying to stay consistent!

 

[Derby]

I agree Peahead! I only posted it because people were flooding the Sidney reports with hate for those of us who love fishing year round.

I basically started it sarcastically and here we are 3 pages of bickering later.

This is why I barely ever look at conservation threads.

I don't see any bickering.. i found this to be very civil in comparing the pass conversations... There will always be haters or some who dislike certain fisheries.. IMO this is a fishery that a few people enjoy and should carry on..

 

[trophywife]

heading out to bam, can't wait for purple yummy.

 

[Peahead]

I agree Peahead! I only posted it because people were flooding the Sidney reports with hate for those of us who love fishing year round.

I basically started it sarcastically and here we are 3 pages of bickering later.

This is why I barely ever look at conservation threads.

Yeah, hear ya on that .....well at least the thread evolved from there into emphasizing the importance of effective release and avoidance/move practices.

 

[Stizzla]

True. If anyone want to jump in with more tips and techniques for safe release please do.

-smaller hooks
-keep fish in the water
-check lines frequently for shakers
-rubber net (if you must use a net)
-leaving an area after a few small ones are caught there.

 

[Peahead]

I will add a few:

First and formost avoid any known 'nurseries' that hold large numbers of shakers and small undersize at certain time of year before even starting to fish.... as you gain experience you will develop a knowledge of those specific areas and the timing.

Change gear to tackle that catches less shakers

Hook upside down with plyers or 'gaff' release in water

Avoid trebles in areas or times there may be smaller fish, losts of fish to release or any C&R fishing

To measure a fish ( likely legal keeper) tail it with cold wet hands or pull from C&R net while still hanging in the water and quickly hold up to measure at height on gunnel .....even better just release in water if you aren't positive it is one you can/want to bonk.

Avoid placing fish down directly on any surface especially if may be too hot or ice cold .... placing on anything at all increases chances of scale loss/damage

Release as quickly as possible - save the photos for the in-water shots or the fish you keep.

never never never put hands in under gill plate.......

For larger size legal fish I would recommend reviving at side of boat however undrsize fish brought in quickly seem to usually steam away fine as soon as released off hook ...


Here is a tough one ..... fish on your line that needs to be released is being chased by seal, you force the fight and get it in net ( to save fish from seal) . You get fish out of net to release and seal is waiting at side of boat ! ..... there is only so much you can do! (too bad shooting seals isn't legal) lol

 

[Whitebuck]

Stizzla....my point exactly....at what point do we say enough is enough and F/Ck DFO bs rules?

 

[Stizzla]

Stizzla....my point exactly....at what point do we say enough is enough and F/Ck DFO bs rules?

People do everyday. Would sure suck to get caught though!

 

[Aces]

If concerned about winters, increase size,

Imagine all fishing groups putting fish first. It will only happen when everyone gets together and decides that this is the key to the success of all future harvesting opportunities. Until then if we keep doing it the way that we always have, all we get are the results of what we've always got. Oh well.

Yes I find some attitudes distressing in that the fishermen are more worried about them, their catch limits and how much they got invested in their boats.....NOT in the

Yes....c and r methods need to be addressed in all our fisheries.
Hammering Thompson jacks is one thing in Aug and Sept, but beating the **** out of winter shakers and not popping them off in the water is another thing.
If it's a hatchery fish make it no size limit...kill your 2 and mandatory stop fishing. Imagine how many fish that would save! Same as our wild coho...sweet you killed 15 wilds to get your limit of hatchery fish, almost as bad as gillnets

yeah but they got to get some use out of their

What are you talking about? Who kills 15 cohos? I know there are some brick hands and careless ones out there but that is hardly the norm. If I harm 1 in 15 salmon I catch I would be surprised. These kind of wild and unfounded exaggerations in any kind of debate these days is frustrating and don't bode well for your credibility. Think about it!

It's about the thousands of other knuckleheads, not people like you that have a clue about proper release methods. The end result mortality rate like someone else posted is WAY higher than the perceived 10%. In the study i was part of the rate was way higher for small single hooks on fly gear and most of them died a week after being caught while in their holding pens

 

[wildmanyeah]

Winter/spring fisheries are only going to become more popular, especially if they don't have the same rules in the winter/spring as they do in the Summer.

In the SOG this summer you could only bonk 1 fish, Right now you can bonk two and they are pretty much the same stock they are trying to protect Harrison whites.

 

[wildmanyeah]

barbless hooks?

 

[Peahead]

Winter/spring fisheries are only going to become more popular, especially if they don't have the same rules in the winter/spring as they do in the Summer.

In the SOG this summer you could only bonk 1 fish, Right now you can bonk two and they are pretty much the same stock they are trying to protect Harrison whites.

huh? nope...... most of the winters are hatchery red Yankee fish that we get in our area. Lots of heads turned in show no CWT, which indicate USA origin. Ones with CWT show mostly as Puget Sound . Some local fish such as Cap and Chilliwack and a few from the Island . Even Oregon has been represented in my winters! I can probably get some Avid Angler info for winters that would provide some DNA info on non-clipped. Not sure how that would look but many I release are hatchery so odds are they are Puget Sound reds too.

 

[wildmanyeah]

huh? nope...... most of the winters are hatchery red Yankee fish that we get in our area. Lots of heads turned in show no CWT which are USA . Ones with CWT show mostly as Puget Sound . Some local fish such as Cap and Chilliwack and a few from the Island . Even Oregon has been represented in my winters! I can probably get some Avid Angler info for winters that would provide some DNA info on non-clipped. Not sure how that would look but many I release are hatchery so odds are they are Puget Sound reds too.

Yeah theirs lots how puget sounds red as well, part for the reason why Canada has to cut chinook take in the new PST. Lots of puget sound stocks have been listed as endangered. I don’t have a problem with this winter fishery’s but we really are robbing petter to pay Paul.

 

[Peahead]

all for protecting any endangered stocks ....but all the cazillion US hatchery fish....ahhh not so much.

 

[wildmanyeah]

all for protecting any endangered stocks ....but all the cazillion US hatchery fish....ahhh not so much.

Interesting I have not herd of these cazillian hatchery fish returning to spawn maybe you can link me thoes returns in Washington state?

Washington states area 10 winter blackmouth recreation fishery just got shut down after only being open for 3 weeks. Their only allowed to keep 1 hatchery marked fish.

My main point tho is it’s not like we are cheating the system catching American hatchery fish. Thoes are poker chips on the table at the PST negotiations.

I thought more hatcheryn production was suppose to rebuild salmon stocks? Or is it just for more marked fish that need to be killed?

 

[Aces]

https://www.eopugetsound.org/magazine/ssec2018/marine-survival-1

 

[Stizzla]

https://www.eopugetsound.org/magazine/ssec2018/marine-survival-1

Thanks, that was interesting!
Please follow up as to what lack of prey for salmon and increase of predators and disease has to do with winter fishing?

 

[Peahead]

Interesting I have not herd of these cazillian hatchery fish returning to spawn maybe you can link me thoes returns in Washington state?

Washington states area 10 winter blackmouth recreation fishery just got shut down after only being open for 3 weeks. Their only allowed to keep 1 hatchery marked fish.

My main point tho is it’s not like we are cheating the system catching American hatchery fish. Thoes are poker chips on the table at the PST negotiations.

I thought more hatcheryn production was suppose to rebuild salmon stocks? Or is it just for more marked fish that need to be killed?

My post was acually to point out that your comment of exploitation on Harrison fish in winter in Van. area, looks to not be so (this from CWT 's). I will get some DNA results/stats and that would be more accurate. A huge % of winter fish in my area are reds anyway so that alone provides some info.

Now switching to the topic of how many hatchery Chinook we should be retaining that are bound for Washington State, opens up a whole new can of worms and conversation, specifically political (PST as you mention).

Washington State's 'mass' marking of Chinook is for rebuilding stocks and that is for the purpose of a retention fishery so yes, they are meant to be caught - or killed as you said. Clipping without a CWT is for exactly that. To produce a fishery for all to enjoy and to be able to retain a table fish (or 2, lol) . It does need to be sustainable otherwise chnages need to be made. As usual the easiest and cheapest change is to CUT. There has been limit cuts and shortened seasons for Puget Sound due to declining hachery returns. I have fished an Area 7 derby in the winter the last several winters and have seen a gradual decline in numbers myself. Down to 1 rod; 1 chinook per person rule now (and of course hatchery retention only there). I however do not beleive that our rec sport fishery is over exploiting these hatchery fish. Also lower pressure of rec fishing in winter as well. The numbers of hatchery clipped Chinook in Winter in our area is actually quite amazing but I do not have the answer as to why Puget Sound hatcheries have declining returns. As usual the rec sector always becomes the scapegoat though.

I guess my point is you can only squeeze so much water out of a rock and that in the past cutting and cutting has shown to not work - problem still exists. Just look at how much the rc sector has lowered its exploitation rate .....and how well has that worked? Lets find the real reasons declines are happening. Kind of reminds me of the SRKW issue - STOP all recreational fishing!! ... despite doing that would do little to nothing to help SRKW (and cause no end of destruction to the economy). Spot/size and timing closures etc to protect stocks when proven to be present is good but just cutting and cutting rec limits continuously isn't the solution. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Personally I really have no problem with a 1 Chinook limit all year but I am also just one of many that beleives the rec fisher's take of Chinook being so little, especially our winter fishery here, is a non issue. Just an easy and cheap way of looking like something is being done.

EDIT - interseting article re Tofino's post ..... just scanning it now.

 

[littlechucky]

Lots of hatchery marked reds caught in the spring fishery the last few years (Thrasher, Porlier, South Bowen, Hump, etc).

As others have mentioned, most likely Puget Sound fish.

I find the unmarked fish caught at that time tend to be whites (though certainly many of those are hatchery fish as well given the small % of Canadian hatchery chinooks which are clipped).

Time to start clipping all hatchery fish here.

I’d rather retain a hatchery fish and let the wilds swim.

 

[wildmanyeah]

My post was acually to point out that your comment of exploitation on Harrison fish in winter in Van. area, looks to not be so (this from CWT 's). I will get some DNA results/stats and that would be more accurate. A huge % of winter fish in my area are reds anyway so that alone provides some info.

Now switching to the topic of how many hatchery Chinook we should be retaining that are bound for Washington State, opens up a whole new can of worms and conversation, specifically political (PST as you mention).

Washington State's 'mass' marking of Chinook is for rebuilding stocks and that is for the purpose of a retention fishery so yes, they are meant to be caught - or killed as you said. Clipping without a CWT is for exactly that. To produce a fishery for all to enjoy and to be able to retain a table fish (or 2, lol) . It does need to be sustainable otherwise chnages need to be made. As usual the easiest and cheapest change is to CUT. There has been limit cuts and shortened seasons for Puget Sound due to declining hachery returns. I have fished an Area 7 derby in the winter the last several winters and have seen a gradual decline in numbers myself. Down to 1 rod; 1 chinook per person rule now (and of course hatchery retention only there). I however do not beleive that our rec sport fishery is over exploiting these hatchery fish. Also lower pressure of rec fishing in winter as well. The numbers of hatchery clipped Chinook in Winter in our area is actually quite amazing but I do not have the answer as to why Puget Sound hatcheries have declining returns. As usual the rec sector always becomes the scapegoat though.

I guess my point is you can only squeeze so much water out of a rock and that in the past cutting and cutting has shown to not work - problem still exists. Just look at how much the rc sector has lowered its exploitation rate .....and how well has that worked? Lets find the real reasons declines are happening. Kind of reminds me of the SRKW issue - STOP all recreational fishing!! ... despite doing that would do little to nothing to help SRKW (and cause no end of destruction to the economy). Spot/size and timing closures etc to protect stocks when proven to be present is good but just cutting and cutting rec limits continuously isn't the solution. "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Personally I really have no problem with a 1 Chinook limit all year but I am also just one of many that beleives the rec fisher's take of Chinook being so little, especially our winter fishery here, is a non issue. Just an easy and cheap way of looking like something is being done.

EDIT - interseting article re Tofino's post ..... just scanning it now.

Yeah the complications are endless and I guess my main point at the start of all this is if we are shifting pressure from summer to winter/spring we aren't really doing anything except maybe reducing the time and size of our catch.

I don't think we need more restrictions but increasing/shifting pressure to the winter is not really a solution either. I used to never fish the winter/spring in Vancouver/Thrasher and now thats best time to get out. July used to be good now I do not even bother in July. In august their is the south thompson push of chinook that provides 2 weeks of decent fishing and then a later push 1-2 weeks of harrison whites.

can't seem to find the winter/spring numbers so not sure how or if that pressure is increasing but it seems like it to me.