Aluminum Vs Fiberglass ? Hot Aluminum boats( Voltage )
- Thread starter the fog ducker
- Start date
Aridhol
Active Member
Maybe a silly question but what do you guys use to extend your multimeter probes? I can't get to the water with one lead if I'm touching my battery and it's a pretty crazy maneuver to reach a rigger line.
Extra long probes? Spare strand of wire?
I think last time I checked from the neg terminal to the rigger wire I was .6 pos.
I'll be going over all the tips here this weekend.
Extra long probes? Spare strand of wire?
I think last time I checked from the neg terminal to the rigger wire I was .6 pos.
I'll be going over all the tips here this weekend.
Aquaholic
Crew Member
Do you have pictures of the Cope?
Canso
Well-Known Member
I used the rigger plug for the negative and used some old rigger cable with a 2 lb ball and a loop on the other end, threw the loop over the pulley onto the metal boom of the rigger. As long as the 2 lb ball is in the water your good.
With the down rigger unplugged put the probe into the negative side of the female plug and touch the boom with the positive probe.
Test out on the water and at your boat spot. Lots of stray voltage in a marina.
I pefer uncoated balls with brass eyes, they will throw voltage as well. I can tell by, how shiny the brass is after use.
My old fibreglass boat is extremely hot. Eats anodes and stainless rigger cable, When landing fish they would dart to one side, always to the same side. That boat slayed fish, lots of good fish stories and also landing my biggest salmon.
Robert
Member
Go with a Scotty black box or Pro Troll, keep your cannon balls clean using a wire brush, and check all your connections within the boat.
Loose or dirty connections are the cause of "hot" boats. I tried using braided and loved the simplicity of it, but not being able to control the electrical field around my boat was just not for me. Different fish are attracted to different frequencies, being able to adjust this increases your chances.
I redid all the connections in my boat a few years back and now with my box turned off, my boat puts out 0.59, which is purrrrrrfect for Chinook. When targetting Sockeye or Coho, I will turn on the box and adjust the frequency accordingly.
On a side note, Pro Troll has developed a unit that attaches to your transom and eliminates the need for steel wire and those silly attaching coils that repeatedly get ripped off. I have been unable to find one of these units but have seen them on the net, allways out of stock!
Tight Lines.....
Loose or dirty connections are the cause of "hot" boats. I tried using braided and loved the simplicity of it, but not being able to control the electrical field around my boat was just not for me. Different fish are attracted to different frequencies, being able to adjust this increases your chances.
I redid all the connections in my boat a few years back and now with my box turned off, my boat puts out 0.59, which is purrrrrrfect for Chinook. When targetting Sockeye or Coho, I will turn on the box and adjust the frequency accordingly.
On a side note, Pro Troll has developed a unit that attaches to your transom and eliminates the need for steel wire and those silly attaching coils that repeatedly get ripped off. I have been unable to find one of these units but have seen them on the net, allways out of stock!
Tight Lines.....
With an AL boat, there are a couple different theories on connecting the hull to the negative 12DC electrical bus; I'd read-up on this & decide which way to go. For sure you want all electrical wiring sound sides connected to the battery negative; I'd check every electrical device to make sure that there was very high infinite resistance between the ground terminal on every device & the hull, and that there was a very low resistance between each ground terminal & the battery negative. Not all meters will measure very low values of resistance properly.
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
Thx guys
There are some head scratching tips and some that make a lot of sense to me being an electrician ,
I think for now all I’m gonna do is just use my electrical meter from the positive post of the battery and the hull , see what the voltage is , And contact a couple of the guys that you guys were nice enough to post for me , i’m out west now and did a serious hard fish this morning and ran my gear 30 feet behind the boat let’s just say I need to go scrub my boat down lol fishing is ridiculous over here right now , One thing I noticed was the fish were not freaking out on my boat as they were on my buddies so I’m getting some confidence back in my boat !!
Keep ya posted on my findings
FD
There are some head scratching tips and some that make a lot of sense to me being an electrician ,
I think for now all I’m gonna do is just use my electrical meter from the positive post of the battery and the hull , see what the voltage is , And contact a couple of the guys that you guys were nice enough to post for me , i’m out west now and did a serious hard fish this morning and ran my gear 30 feet behind the boat let’s just say I need to go scrub my boat down lol fishing is ridiculous over here right now , One thing I noticed was the fish were not freaking out on my boat as they were on my buddies so I’m getting some confidence back in my boat !!
Keep ya posted on my findings
FD
Foxsea
Well-Known Member
This subject of bonding almost always comes down to a definition of terms but once we get the terms the same it may still remain a difference of practice but it is only ONE EVENT IN PHYSICS.
DC Positive is the 'hot side' of the battery and charging system with a voltage potential to the DC Neg.
DC Negative is the 'other side' or return side of the battery and charging system
Ground is a bond to the earth and there is not one on a boat unless you have shore power in a harbor
Bond is an electrical term meaning to electrically tie or wire together
Grounding or Ground is commonly misused to mean DC negative or bond(ing).
DC voltage has two "sides", one positive and one negative - those are the poles on the battery, BUT; [a very important item in the discussion here...] An multi meter put between the negative of an electrical device like a trim tilt motor, downrigger or radio, and the negative of the battery, will show there is still some potential: electricity flowing in a direction toward negative terminals. Interrupting that flow with another device creates a series circuit but there is still flow toward the negative side.
***This is what seems to cause the confusion in many of these discussions. The electricity flowing back to the battery -return- is reduced by the resistance of the device using the power when measured at the negative terminal. BUT IT IS STILL POSITIVE COMPARED TO THE WATER. So again, the negative terminal on an operating device is still positive compared to the water – ocean, lake, etc. but is "less positive" than the battery positive post.
Therefore, if you use the hull as the return path, the current will find an easier/lower resistance path to the water and you will be using your electrical system to dissolve a metal boat in salt water. So, you must not use the hull as a DC Negative return to the battery. You need a two wire system - each device should have one conductor from the Positive DC and the Negative DC or a 'two wire' system. Now, the problem for many folks: The entire Negative Battery/DC system should be securely bonded ["grounded"/connected with a heavy wire or strap] to the metal hull in only ONE, dry location.
Another area of confusion: The idea that there can be an isolated DC marine system is 99% myth, and that is largely based on a lack of understanding of simple DC physics. There is no occurrence of an "isolated" electrical system unless the boat is on a trailer in the Mojave Desert and it’s kept out of the rain.
The reason for bonding is confusing to some but it’s the same EXACT reason not to use the hull as a return path. The reason we bond the DC Negative to the hull is to make sure there can be NO voltage potential between the DC Negative and the hull. If there is, then anything that gets wet is an unintended path to the lower potential [water/ground]. So now, unintentionally, this has made all the work of the two wire system largely redundant.
The best place for bonding is to put a secondary battery cable from the DC negative terminal on the battery to the hull. If you use a copper cable lug then the connection should be where it can't get wet, the connection should be on a replaceable 'lug' if possible. On aluminum boats, a simple aluminum bar bolted to a standard battery cable lug and then bolted securely to the hull will work fine. Use anti-corrosion compound where dissimilar metals are connected. Many boats have terminal bonding through the propulsion system so it may not be as obvious.
If you have a 120 volt AC system (generator, inverter) then the third leg or 'Ground' wire should be common to the bonding lug at the same point on the hull. This is mainly for safety with AC as the other 'two legs' handle the “hot” and “neutral” (return side). Since that level of voltage can be lethal this connection is the same as for the DC but is for the life of the crew more than the life of the hull.
With credit: K. Morin on Aluminum Boat Builders Forum
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the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
Excellent post
Thank you
100% correct , this is what we were taught in school , I will look into bonding the negative to the hull , There may be one already but I won’t know until I bring the boat home ....
Thanks so much everyone for your input , Time to go get the boat dirty again
Cheers
Felix
Thank you
100% correct , this is what we were taught in school , I will look into bonding the negative to the hull , There may be one already but I won’t know until I bring the boat home ....
Thanks so much everyone for your input , Time to go get the boat dirty again
Cheers
Felix
Che
Active Member
X2
Confirmation bias is too strong with these things, and like voodoo, is a religion. What happens on the days when your perfectly dialed in black box doesn't catch fish? What will you blame that day?
Foxsea
Well-Known Member
There is no evidence of "voodoo" in the research literature and there are rigorous filters applied in the research to eliminate well-known biases. However, there is ample and enduring evidence in the academic literature that fish are sensitive to very low voltages and to electromagnetic field effects. Lateral lines are believed to be a sensory organ that responds to these stimuli in ways that may resemble our sense of touch. Based upon this evidence it is not a leap in imagination to suggest that low, stray voltages may interest fish while higher voltages might repel them.
I believe that a boat with a neutral or low, stray electrical field will not repel fish and suspect a boat at some higher level may repel them. I have not done any research. I do not use a black box but am also satisfied that, with my current boat, I have no need to.
Che
Active Member
If you don't 'believe' in them, then you're made out to be some kind of a Kafir. To the folks who do, it's impossible to question these things. It's like they're some kind of a papal bull about fishing. The evidence is basically:"I use one, and I caught fish." Yet the counterpoint of "I don't use one, and I also caught fish" is seen as complete heresy to the former. It can almost go into the Asch Experiment too. Where people end up agreeing with the group, even though they know the groups is wrong, just to avoid being the odd one out.
Fishing black boxes? They're complete voodoo.
Fishing black boxes? They're complete voodoo.
Ian wagner
Active Member
Che as a ex commercial troller who worked on many different boats you would have been the guy complaining he couldn't catch fish because he didn't have the right gear or wasn't in the right place but the whole time it was your boat and it cost you tens of thousand of dollars because you couldn't understand it
Che
Active Member
Check out the Asch Experiment, there's lots of videos on YouTube demonstrating it. Really demonstrates social control.
With commies, they basically HAVE to use a black box because there's so much at stake. It's not just a fish story for the dock, its a paycheque and whether your kids eat or not. So they become one of those things that if you don't have one, and you don't catch fish, you're going to question yourself constantly because someone who does have one caught fish. So whether they work or not, why take that risk? Just use one, and remove that doubt. Use one, catch fish, conclude they work. Use one, don't catch fish, well there must be something else wrong.
How about the no bananas rule? Someone has a banana in their lunch, suddenly it's bad luck and the fish won't bite? It's a complete superstition too,and really it has no bearing on the fish biting or not. But bring a banana out on the boat? The skipper will give you a scolding and everyone will know you broke the banana rule. Because hey, bananas are bad luck!
Performing rituals, obeying superstitions, and using good luck charms is commonplace in both Fishing and in Voodoo. Black boxes fall right into that category.
With commies, they basically HAVE to use a black box because there's so much at stake. It's not just a fish story for the dock, its a paycheque and whether your kids eat or not. So they become one of those things that if you don't have one, and you don't catch fish, you're going to question yourself constantly because someone who does have one caught fish. So whether they work or not, why take that risk? Just use one, and remove that doubt. Use one, catch fish, conclude they work. Use one, don't catch fish, well there must be something else wrong.
How about the no bananas rule? Someone has a banana in their lunch, suddenly it's bad luck and the fish won't bite? It's a complete superstition too,and really it has no bearing on the fish biting or not. But bring a banana out on the boat? The skipper will give you a scolding and everyone will know you broke the banana rule. Because hey, bananas are bad luck!
Performing rituals, obeying superstitions, and using good luck charms is commonplace in both Fishing and in Voodoo. Black boxes fall right into that category.
kevind
Well-Known Member
On my boat i believing the bonding is done from the outboard motor bolted to the transom and a wire from the motor to the zinc attached to the boat transom. Thats the only spot i can see on my boat. I havent done any of those tests but fish seem to be fine around my boat and the ratio for sockeye landing has been really high even with a couple of kids handling the rods lol. We did have help for an ok fishing buddy that knows a couple of things lol!!
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Felix ^^^ as above ....I have spoken with Malcom Russell a few times on the phone and dropped off equipment with him at his home/business location (between Victoria and Swartz Bay). I'd suggest giving him a call to get his opinion on stray electrical when using braid. Lots of good advice above on testing your boat but going straight to 'THE' expert can fast track ya past all the time consuming trial and error process. Malcom is very accommodating and informative guy to speak to about this topic....
https://www.manta.com/ic/mtqd8yr/ca/russell-electronics-ltd
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