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So anyone that questions you: doesn't live in the "real world", and are merely "computer smart and that’s it" because the "NGOs have duped" us all - and we can't think for ourselves. And then you're wondering why people aren't responding to your paternalism and ignorance as you expected? You may wish to rethink how to engage people and lever support in a team context.
 
So anyone that questions you: doesn't live in the "real world", and are merely "computer smart and that’s it" because the "NGOs have duped" us all - and we can't think for ourselves. And then you're wondering why people aren't responding to your paternalism and ignorance as you expected? You may wish to rethink how to engage people and lever support in a team context.
I tried being polite before but that gets nowhere. Squeaky wheel gets the grease right.
Yes I believe you and many others are only computer smart and been duped. My opinion base on our internet interaction. My opinion is proving to be correct.
I’m inviting you, fogged in, terrin or any of you to come visit a stream with me to see for your self but you refuse and choosing to refute me with internet studies for all your knowledge. What does that say about you guys???
Don’t be afraid. I’m not that bad of a guy. We all could learn something from each other.
 
I tried being polite before but that gets nowhere. Squeaky wheel gets the grease right.
Yes I believe you and many others are only computer smart and been duped. My opinion base on our internet interaction. My opinion is proving to be correct.
I’m inviting you, fogged in, terrin or any of you to come visit a stream with me to see for your self but you refuse and choosing to refute me with internet studies for all your knowledge. What does that say about you guys???
Don’t be afraid. I’m not that bad of a guy. We all could learn something from each other.

I am sure you are a fine fellow.
My point is Fish Farms have a well documented record in B.C. AND world wide of disease and Sea Lice and I believe they have no place in our oceans and need to be moved to dry land.
You on the other hand seem to think Open Net Pen Fish Farms are ok and do no harm.
We may never agree!!!
 
My point is that while some people are hell bent to stop the sea pen ff’s those same people are totally ignorant or closed minded of what has been happening to the freshwater ecology and the real issues restricting salmon populations coast wide. This is a case of professional student /desk scientists know more about the field than a local person who has spent a lifetime in the field watching changes and then learning the science why.
Yes, we may never agree on this.
 
In any work environment - people in that team have their strengths to bring into the team. In the science world - everyone critiques everyone else's assumptions and methodologies BEFORE the work is either planned, carried-out and/or published. It is expected - and generally well received - as it would be embarrassing to not see obvious holes in the data or methodology before publishing. In addition - many "high-end" funding sources require "high-end" technical review committees before and after funding a project.

Being abrasive, condescending, paternalistic, belligerent, demeaning and/or ignorant are not skills well suited to engaging others and constructing a supportive team network - whether you decide to distract yourself from the consequences of your behaviour by ignoring those failed approaches as merely being the "squeaky wheel" - or not. If it is not working - there likely is a reason for that. It is what I would consider to be a lack of respect.

Caring for the fish is noble - as I think we are all likely care for the fish on this forum. And others do have quite a bit of experience in what you termed the "real world" on here - whether or not you wish to admit it to yourself or not, Fishmyster.

I know I have no desire to help anyone who continues to exhibit what I consider to be demeaning and/or ignorant behaviour - and I would doubt if anyone else would - whether that be DFO and MOE, or the PSF. Good luck with your "squeeky wheel" approach.
 
I listen to a good podcast on NPR about scientific papers. Most often papers only get published when they prove what ever the funding source wanted. The fact is most times studies dont get published when the conclusions are opposite to what the researchers expected.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/03/07/591213302/episode-677-the-experiment-experiment

A few years back, a famous psychologist published a series of studies that found people could predict the future — not all the time, but more often than if they were guessing by chance alone.

The paper left psychologists with two options.


  • "Either we have to conclude that ESP is true," says Brian Nosek, a psychologist at the University of Virginia, "or we have to change our beliefs about the right ways to do science."

Nosek is going with Option B — and not just for psychology experiments. He thinks there's something wrong with the way we're doing science. And he launched a massive project to try to fix it.
 
Being abrasive, condescending, paternalistic, belligerent, demeaning and/or ignorant are not skills well suited to engaging others and constructing a supportive team network - whether you decide to distract yourself from the consequences of your behaviour by ignoring those failed approaches as merely being the "squeaky wheel" - or not. If it is not working - there likely is a reason for that. It is what I would consider to be a lack of respect.

OMG I just laugh out loud when I read this coming from agent.

I think all that we are seeing here is that fishmyst isn't onboard with agents anti Farm campaign and its so unbearable for agent he read fishmyst's post as if they are rude and ignorant. They haven't been bad at all and excuse me for saying but I get to be the judge on that having been the brunt of a high percentage of that sort of speak on this forum. I might ad that the only time the agent speaks against it if it comes from a source which doest alight with him/hers narrative.
 
OMG I just laugh out loud when I read this coming from agent.
I think all that we are seeing here is that fishmyst isn't onboard with agents anti Farm campaign

Hey Birdsnest
In your rush to try and put Agentaqua down, you came to a false conclusion.
Even Fishmyster said and I quote "I tried being polite before but that gets nowhere. Squeaky wheel gets the grease right."
This debate is going nowhere as is so often the result of replying to a fully engaged Fish Farm Supporter.
Fishmyster is in my opinion a very honest, concerned and informed fresh water observer and defender of Wild Salmon.
His opinion on Fish Farms is just that, an opinion which he is certainly entitled to.
 
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OMG I just laugh out loud when I read this coming from agent.

I think all that we are seeing here is that fishmyst isn't onboard with agents anti Farm campaign and its so unbearable for agent he read fishmyst's post as if they are rude and ignorant. They haven't been bad at all and excuse me for saying but I get to be the judge on that having been the brunt of a high percentage of that sort of speak on this forum. I might ad that the only time the agent speaks against it if it comes from a source which doest alight with him/hers narrative.
So true......
 
Can we change the name of this thread to Days of Our Lives, it is turning into quite the soap opera, get out and fish folks!!!
 
Sound familiar?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16030337
Am J Public Health. 2005;95 Suppl 1:S39-48.
Manufacturing uncertainty: contested science and the protection of the public's health and environment.
Michaels D1, Monforton C.
Author information
Abstract

Opponents of public health and environmental regulations often try to "manufacture uncertainty" by questioning the validity of scientific evidence on which the regulations are based. Though most identified with the tobacco industry, this strategy has also been used by producers of other hazardous products. Its proponents use the label "junk science" to ridicule research that threatens powerful interests. This strategy of manufacturing uncertainty is antithetical to the public health principle that decisions be made using the best evidence available. The public health system must ensure that scientific evidence is evaluated in a manner that assures the public's health and environment will be adequately protected.

p.S45 (Michaels and Monforton, 2005): "In our current regulatory system, debate over science has become a substitute for debate over policy. Opponents of regulation use the existence of uncertainty, no matter its magnitude or importance, as a tool to counter imposition of public health protections that may cause them financial difficulty. It is important that those charged with protecting the public’s health recognize that the desire for absolute scientific certainty is both counter-productive and futile...."
 
Go dive in and around any large fish farm... The sea bed looks completely sterile.
I guess that’s just happening by coincidence? Not!
How is that a good thing?
 
In any work environment - people in that team have their strengths to bring into the team. In the science world - everyone critiques everyone else's assumptions and methodologies BEFORE the work is either planned, carried-out and/or published. It is expected - and generally well received - as it would be embarrassing to not see obvious holes in the data or methodology before publishing. In addition - many "high-end" funding sources require "high-end" technical review committees before and after funding a project.

Being abrasive, condescending, paternalistic, belligerent, demeaning and/or ignorant are not skills well suited to engaging others and constructing a supportive team network - whether you decide to distract yourself from the consequences of your behaviour by ignoring those failed approaches as merely being the "squeaky wheel" - or not. If it is not working - there likely is a reason for that. It is what I would consider to be a lack of respect.

Caring for the fish is noble - as I think we are all likely care for the fish on this forum. And others do have quite a bit of experience in what you termed the "real world" on here - whether or not you wish to admit it to yourself or not, Fishmyster.

I know I have no desire to help anyone who continues to exhibit what I consider to be demeaning and/or ignorant behaviour - and I would doubt if anyone else would - whether that be DFO and MOE, or the PSF. Good luck with your "squeeky wheel" approach.
Bla bla bla bla....

If any of you or the others have experience in the real world then please bring it forth. So far you are just a copiers and posters.

You think I am abrasive and disrespectful? Well being ignored doesn't work anymore. Is it because of me that everyone turns their back on freshwater chemistry for twenty five years? Do I just not present it all well enough? Lame!!

Am I supposed to respect you guys? I respect people who stand behind their names. I respect people who have passion, drive, integrity, love of life, empathy. I don't respect internet entities that contribute to the NGO activist directive of killing every industry in Canada. You can label me condescending, belligerent but at least I have a name and stand by it. Do any of you stand by your names?? It should be all fair for me to say anything to you enet aliases It is not being directed at any real person.

Your blurb about the science world. Well have invited you all to come from behind your computer to the real world and critique my observations by showing me all of the basic invertebrate assemblages that I apparently can't find. If you find here I give full consent to publically humiliate me all over the net. I would also place a wager. Challenge on! Ha ha you guys don't know ****!!
 
Anyone remember the original reason this thread was posted? Probably not as most of you are busy reminding each other of how smart you are and how stupid everyone else is. The next derogatory remark or calling out of another member to "prove" something in this or any other FF thread will be your last in this forum. Have tried numerous times to have some of you accept that the "other" side is never going to come around to your point of view and repeatedly reminded all involved to act in a respectful manner while posting your remarks. Those of you who can't help yourself will be gone. Whomever is left behind can carry on this endless debate, provided you too don't fall into the same pile of BS.
 
Way to go Admin, just like i stated in post 70, go fishing folks
 
Thank you admin for the tune up. My apologies to everyone involved for any offense taken from my posts. It comes out of frustration!
To keep things on subject I will say it is sad to see how NGOs who are employed via donations and entitled funds are turning Canadians against other Canadians who are trying to employ them selves. We seem to live in a world where there is no respect for the working class people and their ability to hold gainful employment. IMO NGOs are targeting ff's because it is a marketable sale rather then looking for positive solutions that benefit salmon and all Canadians who live in coastal communities. Again there is a much more credible scientific explanation for the demise of salmon populations but nobody cares to acknowledge it.
Jackel, Thanks for you input. I have been fishing 25 days per month since April. My seasonal average is 120 days of fishing the chuck for the last 30 years. Some years between fresh and salt water work and hobby I fish 300+ days a year. It is my field observation and water quality research that have lead me to my stand point on what is real and what is advertised bs.
Again everyone sorry for any offense given.
Ken Myers
 
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