Blue Seas ACR system answers

CIVANO

Well-Known Member
I have spent the last few days talking to Blue Seas and thought some of the info I got might be helpful.
I have the system and when crabbing and using a pot puller, live well and depth sounder, my house battery drains when using the kicker. The depth sounder goes off when the battery gets a little low. I called to ask them if I should wire this differently so the kicker charges the house battery first when running.Kevin who I spoke with said he has his kicker wired this way. He said the ACR will not combine unless there is over 13 volts coming from an alternator and when just idling or going slowly, the kicker is charging only the start battery. Here is the diagram he sent me
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I changed mine and will see if it helps.

Here is his comment and per his instructions his contact info is there if there are any clarifications needed. He told me to tell you to feel free to contact him
From Kevin:
I have my boat set up with the kicker on the house. I don’t know if it makes more power (likely not) but the trolling motor will have to bring the start battery to 13.0 VDC to combine if it is on the start side. If it is on the House side it will put every milliamp to the house so even if at ideal we are not putting out a full 13.0 the house will get some charge.

Please ask if you have any additional questions.


Best Regards,


Kevin Patterson

Blue Sea Systems

Technical Support Specialist

ABYC Certified Electrician


TECH. SUPPORT TEL: 360-738-8230, Option 2

TOLL FREE: 800-222-7617, Option 2

Direct: KPatterson@bluesea.com


Now a very important bit of information:

I read a previous thread about one of our posters who combined his batteries with this system only to have his start battery discharge into his house battery and render both too low to start his engine. He said this does happen but there is a safety built in. If one battery is below 9 Volts, the ACR will not combine the batteries automatically so this can not happen automatically. However if we manually switch to combine batteries it will happen if one is below 9v. He said the way to prevent this is to look at the face of the ACR before manually combining. The little green light on the face could be blinking. If blinking, one battery is below 9v and you do not want to manually combine. If the light is solid green it is good to combine.
Hope this helps
 
There is one problem with that scenario. I recently installed one of these too but decided against this approach as your kicker starter is now stinging your house batteries every time it starts. My house batteries are of the deep cycle type which do not take kindly to frequent high amperage discharge like starter motors, it does shorten their lives. Then again I suppose draining them below 50% a lot does too. One solution could be to put the DRs on the starting side, but then that sort of defeats the purpose of the ACR. I'm going to continue leaving mine as is. You might just need more horsepower on your house side. what are your battery sizes? Also, if your starting battery is starting to bite it, it may not hold a high enough amp while the little guy is charging it to keep the ACR closed.

Manufacturers of kickers really need to up the amperage on their motors. The 1970's have called and would like their alternators back. They are still using the same technology as back then when all people had were 3 light bulbs and a horn on their boats!

One thing to note is I have a Noco Genius integrated on board and I leave my batteries on it when the boat is on the trailer at home. That helps a huge amount. I like the Noco because it doesn't keep the batteries at 14V all the time like the Canadian Tire ones or others like it, which fries your batteries.
 
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both batteries are 27's and both combo start/deep cycle from Costco Interstate. I do not think my 2003 Yamaha 9.9 has more than 10 amps at full throttle. I am going to try it and will report MY results.
 
You can use a starter off the combo batteries. I avoid them for deep cycle (non starting) applications though as i don't find they last as long as Deep Cycle batteries in non-starting applications. I have a high cranker starting type for my starting side and two deep cycle 24's in series for my house side.
 
My kicker is on the house battery as well, I feel as if the amperage to start a 9.9 efi Suzuki can’t be all that high the cables are quite small but I haven’t checked the specs. A Scotty HP pulling a 20# ball must be similar..
 
@CIVANO it seems to me from reading the overview of your system that something may be going on with your house battery system. Either the batteries are getting old/tired, or perhaps you have some corroded connectors or potentially a faulty alternator.

If you took a multimeter (even the cheap $10 ones from Crappy Tire will work) and measure your house batteries at rest, you should be seeing about 12.7 volts with all other electronics (including chargers etc) shut off. If the voltage is below 12.5 it's a sign that either the battery is not fully charged (potentially due to corroded connectors or a poor charging source), or it's simply getting old and can no longer accept a full charge.

Try this, connect the starter lead from your kicker directly to your battery (bipass the ACR for now). If you then start your kicker and run it up to mid-throttle so that it's alternator kicks in, the multimeter on your house battery should now register something around 14.3V. If you are only seeing a number in the 12.x range, then go back to my first line -- either you have a bad battery, corroded connectors or potentially a faulty alternator. Clean/sand the corrosion of the connectors and check to see if you have a bunch of green corrosion where the lug is crimped to the cable. If that exists, you can lose a bunch of voltage and you likely need to replace the cable. If you know how to measure AMPS with your multimeter, you could then use it to diagnose your kicker's alternator -- at half throttle it should be throwing out 3-4A assuming it is 6A max.

If you have healthy start/house batteries there should be no reason that they would not hit 13v on your kicker and trigger the ACR to combine them. Your boat electronics like a chartplotter should not be drawing enough volts/amps to trigger the ACR to uncombine the house/start systems (if you are running an older non-digital radar it can indeed draw that much power). Your pot puller puts a great deal of load on the system, and may cause the ACR to disconnect the batteries, but it's only used for a few moments and as soon as it shuts down, the system voltage should quickly climb back over 13v and trigger the ACR to combine.

Should also clarify at point @bpsuls made. Most good charging systems, particularly the plug in kind are 3-stage chargers (Bulk, Absorb and Float). If you have a Lead Acid battery, during the Bulk stage, the charger should be putting out about 14.3-14.6v at it's maximum Amps. During the Absorb stage (at about 80-90% charged), the Amp output will drop, however, if you have a properly designed charger the voltage should actually increase to 14.8-15V (the best chargers allow you to set the Absorb voltage). Your battery manufacturer should state the recommended Absorb voltage -- my house batteries are Trojan T105 and they recommend 15v during absorb (Interstate recommends 14.8v). Your charger needs to hit that voltage in order to get your battery to 100% charged (don't believe the digital readouts on the charger itself that says 100%) -- if its not hitting that range you are only charging your batteries to 90% capacity and in fact, shorten the life of the battery. Once the battery is then 100% charged, the charger will go into Float and you should see about 13.3v so indeed your batteries don't boil.

If you want to read an excellent primer on battery charging take a read through this guys blog: https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/. There is a bunch of stuff on solar panels, charge controllers etc... that you can skip over if not interested, however the information on battery charging, cables/connectors, voltage etc... is very informative.
 
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Thanks for the extensive reply. The batteries with no charger are 12.5v and with the kicker running mid speed the house battery was at 14.7v. I need to check my charger. I doubt that it is 3 stage. I will read the blogs and run the boat a while with the kicker on the House battery and report the results. I have only been out a small amount since the change over but fish all next week and get a good test to evaluate any positive results.

Thanks again. You have been most helpful

Joe
 
No worries -- and happy reading. That blog post is VERY long so pull out an adult beverage and enjoy.

You've eliminated the kicker's alternator as an issue. If you're seeing 14.7v then it's providing a good charge. At 12.5v the house batteries may not be fully charged, or just getting old. How old are they? Make sure you do a good once over the connectors (both ends) a wire brush or sanding can help here. Make sure connectors are good and tight.

The other interesting test to do here is keep the multimeter hooked up and then start turning on your electronics one at a time and watch the voltage. On a tired battery, the voltage will drop into the 11.x range pretty quickly. Would be interesting to see what the voltage is at while you're pulling up your pots with the puller under load. If your sounder is shutting down, it's likely that the voltage is dropping to 10.x volts as that's usually the safety shut down range.

In the end, might be worth pulling the house battery out of the boat and run it over to a battery shop. They can do a load test on it for you and tell you if it's good or not.
 
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