SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Yep lets not say anything because of the net pen donation. Good show.
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WHALE WATCHING HARASSMENT
- Thread starter high tide
- Start date
Yep lets not say anything because of the net pen donation. Good show.
G
gone fishin
Guest
Gota say I totally agree with fogged in!
searun
Well-Known Member
Could not agree more. The science is fairly clear that physical and acoustic disturbances impede prey acquisition by 25%, and the energy expenditure to re-acquire prey goes up by 17%. Time for a proper science based approach. If the closed area is a test to see if there is merit to the whole idea, then so beit. Stop everyone from being in there and do a proper scientific study. This solution is ideology based, not science based.
Honestly, the better approach that strikes a balance between allowing use of an area while providing protection is to have a 400m bubble zone that is strictly enforced with real penalties. As was mentioned, if the animals are not in the area there is no benefit to any plan...but we need a science based plan that we know actually helps, as opposed to implementing "ideology."
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I guess the question is are they allies or simply using fishers as a scapegoat to take the heat off themselves. I don’t know, but I’m suspicious.
Well, in Victoria there are outfits that run both, whale watching and sportfishing. I would think that they are truly on our side. Most others are concerned about salmon as prey for whales so at least for the critical task of demanding more investment into salmon they would be a natural ally. They know that shutting us down will make no difference.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
The problem I have with what you are saying is that if they are worried about salmon as prey, shutting us down and contributing to a net pen make perfect sense for their self interest.One could argue that we are being used to supply more prey for the whales they search out on two fronts, producing more and harvesting less .Clearly in their best interest, ours not so much!
Also we are being excluded from the areas that the whales forage due to noise restrictions, but oddly enough they aren’t? Once again good for their self interest, we take the rap for disturbing the whales, them business as usual.
I don’t know but I think we are being used.
Jerrod, raising a stink about the whale boats in Area 20 will not make DFO say "Whoops, OK, let's open it and the bluffs back up". The best case is "Ok, let's boot the whale boats too". This is a political football from DFO, nothing more.
The same could be said for First Nations netting the rivers, and all of the other unfair divisions among user groups. The bottom line is, DFO needs to manage the fishery with more tools then closures, and must be taken to task to ensure they do. We will get nowhere being divided. The net pen would not have happened without the blessing of First Nations and several other user groups. Pressuring SVIAC, the SFI, or any other groups to take aim at whale watching will not help our fishery in any way.
First off, they are much better funded and organized we are. In a media battle, we will have our asses handed to us.
Second off, it will help our cause not one bit if they get hit too. No amount of public outcry will help our fishery, that much is clear.
ziggy
Well-Known Member
I don’t get the “get nowhere if we are divided” argument? Clearly DFO has divided us already. We face restrictions and the Whale Watchers have none! That seems pretty divided to me, essentially they have no reason to be concerned about the restrictions put on fishing and if anything it’s good for their business. Why would they support us and complain about no go areas? However if the no go applied to them as well, they would have a pretty good reason to join forces with us.
They have already joined forces with us. They openly opposed the sportfishing closures and pleaded just like us to make more fish. What more can you want? If they get shut down then we lose a potent ally to pressure the government for more fish. How can that be our goal?
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Fair enough I was unaware they pleaded to keep any areas open for recreational fishing, what meeting was this at? What areas did they say they wanted left open for fishing? Are they lobbying on our behalf for more open areas, with just Spring restrictions?
Don’t you think they’d be a better ally if any of this crap affected their operation? Frankly I find it suspect that this whole “we’re in this together”line keeps coming out, but no one seems to know what it is we are all in on. Of course they want more salmon and so do we, but that’s about it! Does this cooperation only exist for the Sooke net pen?
They are clearly not affected by finfish closures but we are! Seems to me if anything the whale watchers have done really good on these new regulations ,partially at our expense!
Don’t you think they’d be a better ally if any of this crap affected their operation? Frankly I find it suspect that this whole “we’re in this together”line keeps coming out, but no one seems to know what it is we are all in on. Of course they want more salmon and so do we, but that’s about it! Does this cooperation only exist for the Sooke net pen?
They are clearly not affected by finfish closures but we are! Seems to me if anything the whale watchers have done really good on these new regulations ,partially at our expense!
fogged in
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys
I just can't buy this argument that by Sport Fishermen supporting keeping the foraging zones open for Whale Watchers that is will help our cause.
Sure the Whale Watchers give money to the Sooke Project and the Whale Watchers give lip service to supporting Sport Fishermen but I strongly believe the Whale Watchers would be up in arms if they were treated the same way we have been treated and we would have a better chance to reduce the foraging area's if it included them!!
The one thing WE ALL AGREE ON is this foraging policy is political and will DO NOTHING TO RESTORE THE HEALTH of the Southern Resident Orca population.
Agree with Fogged in.
Nice that they have verbally supported us and funded the net pen but what we need is for them to be directly effected with the closures so they will step up and fight the fight.
They have more money, influence and resources to fight this than we do.
Without a closure on Whale Watching they will just hold our hand in support.
Beyond that if this is really about the Whales then no one can argue that it is ridiculous that they are aloud to continue chasing whales in their safe areas.
Nice that they have verbally supported us and funded the net pen but what we need is for them to be directly effected with the closures so they will step up and fight the fight.
They have more money, influence and resources to fight this than we do.
Without a closure on Whale Watching they will just hold our hand in support.
Beyond that if this is really about the Whales then no one can argue that it is ridiculous that they are aloud to continue chasing whales in their safe areas.
This is best point in your post. But we need them to hand DFO their asses.
It's not us vs them. It is everyone against DFO and GOV.
Whale watchers don't need our support to fight this. They just need to be thrown in the ring.
searun
Well-Known Member
Totally agree, this isn't a rec vs whale watching issue. Its really about addressing the very poor science used to justify what the Green ENGO's lobbied hard via social media to accomplish a rec closure!!! We must wake up and face the enemy at the gate. Its about to happen again at Swiftsure and LaPerouse. They are lobbying hard using purely emotional arguments to close rec fishing to the greatest extent possible. Now they are also taking aim on Whale Watching and Commercial Fishing.
The point behind getting DFO to conduct a proper study of the efficacy of these "Refuge Area" strategies is to attack the absurdity of a completely unproven tactic.
Having said all of the above, let's not forget that there are some very legitimate concerns with the current whale watching practices and their impacts on SRKW prey acquisition - the science is clear on that point. Change has to happen in the Whale Watching community as well. A 400m spatial exclusion zone or "bubble" around all whales is better for both the rec fishery and whale watchers than a complete Refuge Closure!
california
Well-Known Member
california
Well-Known Member
Stop being the voice of reason! You are correct the closures aren't going away and the only way they will is if the studies show no difference in foraging frequency in the areas. From a strictly selfish perspective it's better whale watchers arent restricted as the quieter you make the zones the higher the likelihood they accomplish what they are supposed to do. However anyone with any empathy or concern for the whales can only be disgusted by the current practices of the whale watchers and I cant support them for that reason.
$500K fines part of DFO's protection plan for whales, marine mammals
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/whale-watching-federal-regulations-1.4741973
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/whale-watching-federal-regulations-1.4741973
Peahead
Well-Known Member
Really agree with your post and the first sentence stands out "..... this isn't a rec vs whale watching issue" . My comment in another thread about throwing the WWatchers under the bus as not being productive, was based on this type of thinking. Not because I don't think WWatchers need to clean up their actions/behavior around SRKW- they do. The 400m bubble zone sounds like it would be better for both WW and Rec fishers than a closure however from some of my readings the 400m bubble strategy to the WWatchers I think they feel would be almost as catastrophic to business as area closure. To the rec sector the 400m bubble strategy would be welcomed.
Can anyone tell me what we gain by getting involved with bashing another business sector? Other than making you feel better!!! The ENGO's are lobbying DFO hard to shut down the whale watchers...let them become the enemy of the whale watchers. We need allies in our fight...we are weak alone. Unless you plan on buddying up with the ENGO's. Personally I think the whale watchers should be held to a maximum amount of time with the resident whales...but I'm not going to push that agenda...it doesn't help me. We have our own fight with DFO!!! that is my focus, nothing else. BTW..if we keep it up they might start posting that we are catching too many Chinook just so they feel better....loose..loose!
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