Idle No More/Theresa Spence
- Thread starter SerengetiGuide
- Start date
spring fever
Well-Known Member
Yeah-with Teresa's diet we could cure world hunger-Just Sayin!!!
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Seems like some of the replies are of the same tenure as ones on the gun control thread.
If somebody doesn't like your views you are immediately "labelled" with a 'racism" tag or something similar.
Doesn't it just tick you off when you read something posted and you sit there at the comp screen practically foaming from the mouth with retaliatory hatred and you want to crush the poster like an ant underfoot with a barrage of defamatory rhetoric that will ensure that all evil is erased from future discourse....until you remember the guy has a right to express his view and nobody's opinion is sacrosanct.
Racism: "1. An irrational belief in or advocacy of the superiority of a given group, people, or nation , usually one's own,on the basis of racial differences having no scientific validity. 2. Social action or government policy based upon such assumed differences."
Many posters do not feel they are "superior" to aboriginals and F.N.....only that they disagree with a particular policy.
You could say that Government Policy was racist in the past,establishing reservations, establishing "treaties",res. schools and the banning of certain ceromonies along with head taxes and no voting rights plus non-recognition of citizenship.
So to 'deconstruct' the government failure of the past....the answer would be to
abolish reservations,handouts, lack of rights etc. and totally assimilate the culture onto equal footing with everyone else.
Then everyone is "equal"...and no "racism".
"Loss of Culture"?.........well....canadian Greeks are Greek on the weekend(or any other day) when they associate with fellow Greeks at the Greek club. They still go out and work at jobs in the economy Monday thru Friday.
Ditto for any other Canadian that had roots in another culture.
We are artificially propping up "racism" with current government policy.
If somebody doesn't like your views you are immediately "labelled" with a 'racism" tag or something similar.
Doesn't it just tick you off when you read something posted and you sit there at the comp screen practically foaming from the mouth with retaliatory hatred and you want to crush the poster like an ant underfoot with a barrage of defamatory rhetoric that will ensure that all evil is erased from future discourse....until you remember the guy has a right to express his view and nobody's opinion is sacrosanct.
Racism: "1. An irrational belief in or advocacy of the superiority of a given group, people, or nation , usually one's own,on the basis of racial differences having no scientific validity. 2. Social action or government policy based upon such assumed differences."
Many posters do not feel they are "superior" to aboriginals and F.N.....only that they disagree with a particular policy.
You could say that Government Policy was racist in the past,establishing reservations, establishing "treaties",res. schools and the banning of certain ceromonies along with head taxes and no voting rights plus non-recognition of citizenship.
So to 'deconstruct' the government failure of the past....the answer would be to
abolish reservations,handouts, lack of rights etc. and totally assimilate the culture onto equal footing with everyone else.
Then everyone is "equal"...and no "racism".
"Loss of Culture"?.........well....canadian Greeks are Greek on the weekend(or any other day) when they associate with fellow Greeks at the Greek club. They still go out and work at jobs in the economy Monday thru Friday.
Ditto for any other Canadian that had roots in another culture.
We are artificially propping up "racism" with current government policy.
Last edited by a moderator:
spring fever
Well-Known Member
You are 100% correct seafever-almost impossible in canada to have any kind of rational discussion regards, immigration, FN, Muslims-ethnicity etc etc without being labelled a racist. It doesn't matter whether the concerns are legitiment, factual and plain for all to see-if the group you have asked the question about doesn't like it just label the questioner a racist and in Canada he will skulk away with no questions answered. This doesn't apply if you wish to slam-english, scots ,Irish, american immigrants, Wasps, Harper, the queen , FA, Holmes etc etc-that's just normal give and take!! My 2 cents!! LOL
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Some "aboriginals" are not bargaining "in good faith with the best intentions for fairness" at all.
Quite a few openly admit they do not recognise the Canadian Constitution legally and do not deem themselves to be Canadian subjects.
There thought on Canada is:- " it was once ours and it still is ours....100%.....fish,game,minerals, resources, everything".
The minute you heard a group of people onto a "reservation" (translate "minimum security prison") you have cast the iron for "racism". By this action you deem them to be "different" on basis of race. So it was the government who officially created "racism" IMO.
Once the basis for a sense of entitlement is legally established (and Quebec is also a people with a sense of entitlement) the persons involved are going to naturally milk it for all it's worth.
There can never be enough that we "owe" and should "pay".
As long as you "owe' a person and keep paying, he's not going to do much to change the situation, except to get you to pay more, cloaked under excuse you like that pushes your "guilt" button.
"Aboriginal Inc." will of course continue on the road of "wealth by sympathy". Why? Because they can.
Lawyers always want make a buck and the longer this goes on and on the more paydays there are in it for all concerned.
Over 40 million spent legally on the Air India fiasco for example with basically sweet b.-all to show for it.
I don't ever see the end to this one......
Quite a few openly admit they do not recognise the Canadian Constitution legally and do not deem themselves to be Canadian subjects.
There thought on Canada is:- " it was once ours and it still is ours....100%.....fish,game,minerals, resources, everything".
The minute you heard a group of people onto a "reservation" (translate "minimum security prison") you have cast the iron for "racism". By this action you deem them to be "different" on basis of race. So it was the government who officially created "racism" IMO.
Once the basis for a sense of entitlement is legally established (and Quebec is also a people with a sense of entitlement) the persons involved are going to naturally milk it for all it's worth.
There can never be enough that we "owe" and should "pay".
As long as you "owe' a person and keep paying, he's not going to do much to change the situation, except to get you to pay more, cloaked under excuse you like that pushes your "guilt" button.
"Aboriginal Inc." will of course continue on the road of "wealth by sympathy". Why? Because they can.
Lawyers always want make a buck and the longer this goes on and on the more paydays there are in it for all concerned.
Over 40 million spent legally on the Air India fiasco for example with basically sweet b.-all to show for it.
I don't ever see the end to this one......
Last edited by a moderator:
Nicely said! The racism card seems to be all that they have left, since I have yet to hear a decent argument to why we should continue with the special rights and privlages BS for first nations.
Big Green Machine
Well-Known Member
You need to do a littlE more digging my friend. It's called the Indian Act, needs some attention, what Politicians have the guts?
Aces
Well-Known Member
Now this is the "Poster Child" for the "Idle No More" movement. READ all of this................
We wish!!!!!!!! We need more like this man.................below....................
Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta: READ ALL WAY TO BOTTOM.......
He's Handsome too..........
Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.
'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:
'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'
He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.
'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'
He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.
He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.
Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.
In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.
The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.
There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.
Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.
Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers.. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'
'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'
He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'
Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.
'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.
Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.
Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'
The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.
'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'
'Blaming government? That time is over.'
We wish!!!!!!!! We need more like this man.................below....................
Chief Clarence Louie, Osoyoos BC speaking in Northern Alberta: READ ALL WAY TO BOTTOM.......
He's Handsome too..........
Speaking to a large aboriginal conference and some of the attendees, including a few who hold high office, have straggled in.
'I can't stand people who are late, he says into the microphone. Indian Time doesn't cut it. '
Some giggle, but no one is quite sure how far he is going to go. Just sit back and listen:
'My first rule for success is Show up on time.'
'My No. 2 rule for success is follow Rule No. 1.'
'If your life sucks, it's because you suck.'
'Quit your sniffling.'
'Join the real world. Go to school, or get a job.'
'Get off of welfare. Get off your butt.'
He pauses, seeming to gauge whether he dare, then does.
'People often say to me, How you doin'? Geez I'm working with Indians what do you think?'
Now they are openly laughing ..... applauding. Clarence Louie is everything that was advertised and more.
'Our ancestors worked for a living, he says. So should you.'
He is, fortunately, aboriginal himself. If someone else stood up and said these things - the white columnist standing there with his mouth open, for example - you'd be seen as a racist. Instead, Chief Clarence Louie is seen, increasingly, as one of the most interesting and innovative native leaders in the country even though he avoids national politics.
He has come here to Fort McMurray because the aboriginal community needs, desperately, to start talking about economic development and what all this multibillion-dollar oil madness might mean, for good and for bad.
Clarence Louie is chief and CEO of the Osoyoos Band in British Columbia's South Okanagan. He is 44 years old, though he looks like he would have been an infant when he began his remarkable 20-year-run as chief.. He took a band that had been declared bankrupt and taken over by Indian Affairs and he has turned in into an inspiration.
In 2000, the band set a goal of becoming self-sufficient in five years. They're there.
The Osoyoos, 432 strong, own, among other things, a vineyard, a winery, a golf course and a tourist resort, and they are partners in the Baldy Mountain ski development. They have more businesses per capita than any other first nation in Canada.
There are not only enough jobs for everyone, there are so many jobs being created that there are now members of 13 other tribal communities working for the Osoyoos. The little band contributes $40-million a year to the area economy.
Chief Louie is tough. He is as proud of the fact that his band fires its own people as well as hires them. He has his mottos posted throughout the Rez. He believes there is no such thing as consensus, that there will always be those who disagree. And, he says, he is milquetoast compared to his own mother when it comes to how today's lazy aboriginal youth, almost exclusively male, should be dealt with.
Rent a plane, she told him, and fly them all to Iraq. Dump'em off and all the ones who make it back are keepers.. Right on, Mom.
The message he has brought here to the Chipewyan, Dene and Cree who live around the oil sands is equally direct: 'Get involved, create jobs and meaningful jobs, not just window dressing for the oil companies.'
'The biggest employer,' he says, 'shouldn't be the band office.'
He also says the time has come to get over it. 'No more whining about 100-year-old failed experiments.' 'No foolishly looking to the Queen to protect rights.'
Louie says aboriginals here and along the Mackenzie Valley should not look at any sharing in development as rocking-chair money but as investment opportunity to create sustainable businesses. He wants them to move beyond entry-level jobs to real jobs they earn all the way to the boardrooms. He wants to see business manners develop: showing up on time, working extra hours. The business lunch, he says, should be drive through, and then right back at it.
'You're going to lose your language and culture faster in poverty than you will in economic development', he says to those who say he is ignoring tradition.
Tough talk, at times shocking talk given the audience, but on this day in this community, they took it and, judging by the response, they loved it.
Eighty per cent like what I have to say, Louie says, twenty per cent don't. I always say to the 20 per cent, 'Get over it.' 'Chances are you're never going to see me again and I'm never going to see you again' 'Get some counseling.'
The first step, he says, is all about leadership. He prides himself on being a stay-home chief who looks after the potholes in his own backyard and wastes no time running around fighting 100-year-old battles.
'The biggest challenge will be how you treat your own people.'
'Blaming government? That time is over.'
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the public perception of "Idle No More" is that it is simply a request for more and bigger handouts.
It has not been "marketed" very effectively by aboriginals.
IMO it's more about Harper's flagrant trampling of environmental laws recently.......(also gutting of the Kelowna Accord).
IMO they perceive it as just another tactic to steamroll over negotiations that have been "negotiated" for years but are still hanging on the hook. They fear further erosion of what they have now up to this point.
"Idle No More" was the absolute worst marketing slogan they could have come up with.
Actually we should all be "Idle No More" when it comes to the passing of some of these "Harperations".
It has not been "marketed" very effectively by aboriginals.
IMO it's more about Harper's flagrant trampling of environmental laws recently.......(also gutting of the Kelowna Accord).
IMO they perceive it as just another tactic to steamroll over negotiations that have been "negotiated" for years but are still hanging on the hook. They fear further erosion of what they have now up to this point.
"Idle No More" was the absolute worst marketing slogan they could have come up with.
Actually we should all be "Idle No More" when it comes to the passing of some of these "Harperations".
Summer Steel
Member
Striper Sniper
Well-Known Member
hambone
Well-Known Member
I grew up in small town with a reserve and ever since I was young I realized that any friendship I had with an indigenous person would be tainted by our colonial past and are governments ongoing colonial attitude towards FN. I think it's really easy to say we're not some old English colony but unfortunately our government has used a colonial attitude towards FN for the past 200 years, so we can't just ignore the very recent past?? I'm not offering up a suggestion on how to resolve what has happened but im sympathetic to an extent with how FN people have been treated. I don't agree with handouts, or people being above the law or any of that but I do think they deserve some amount of compensation even if its something as simple as just respect. Imagine if your parents went through the residential school system?? You'd have no trust and likely forever hate the people that did this to you.
I lived in New Zealand for a while and it's amazing how prominent the Maori culture is in that country. For the most part there is a very solid relationship between Maori and European 'colonizers' and in my opinion it's all about respect. The Maori people seem to never point the finger instead they just focus on being proud of who they are. Canada has made such a mess of this......
There's seems to be lots of people on this forum that act like they're so hard done by putting up with FNs their entire life. Maybe this is because as fisherman we see them as competitors for the resource lol. But seriously, If we keep that attitude we will keep the same horrible relationship we have and it will never improve. I dont agree with handouts, they clearly aren't working but i am in support of a hand up as others have mentioned. Just my observation.....
I lived in New Zealand for a while and it's amazing how prominent the Maori culture is in that country. For the most part there is a very solid relationship between Maori and European 'colonizers' and in my opinion it's all about respect. The Maori people seem to never point the finger instead they just focus on being proud of who they are. Canada has made such a mess of this......
There's seems to be lots of people on this forum that act like they're so hard done by putting up with FNs their entire life. Maybe this is because as fisherman we see them as competitors for the resource lol. But seriously, If we keep that attitude we will keep the same horrible relationship we have and it will never improve. I dont agree with handouts, they clearly aren't working but i am in support of a hand up as others have mentioned. Just my observation.....
Last edited by a moderator:
hambone
Well-Known Member
Must be damn good fish broth..........
LOL... Any good intentions of the Idle No More thing are completely tainted by her BS.
Striper Sniper
Well-Known Member
Foxsea
Well-Known Member
Already done that:
http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1332949137290/1332949312397
The Settlement Agreement is the product of negotiations launched on May 30, 2005, by the Government of Canada and the Assembly of First Nations (AFN). The Hon. Frank Iacobucci was appointed as the federal negotiator to work with all stakeholders (the AFN and other Aboriginal organizations, the Anglican, Presbyterian, Roman Catholic, and United Church entities, and legal counsel for former students) to develop a fair, final, and comprehensive resolution package to the tragic legacy of Indian Residential Schools.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
