Port alberni Inlet massacre
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I believe they have asked the department for ITQ's
searun
Well-Known Member
A number of issues raised here regarding how the Round Table and DFO managed the fishery. Firstly, the Round Table aims to manage the fishery in a way that respects all sector's needs. The Rec fishery does not have a "quota" per se, rather an expected catch. Allocations are determined by the Table and DFO based on a predicted run size. A run size as predicted at 117k triggers commercial Area D gill net fisheries and Economic Opportunity commercial fisheries for FN's who have a signed agreement. Fishery decisions are aimed at ensuring 21,000 Chinook escape to provide sufficient large females for the hatchery, knowing that less than 10% WILD spawners contribute to recruitment. Ergo. most of the recruitment are hatchery produced fish. DNA sampling of Rec catch also confirms that even the so called WILD fish caught are largely (85%) of hatchery origin. So the Round Table's goal is to manage the fishery in a way that maximizes exploitation of available hatchery produced Chinook by all sectors, leaving just enough escapement to address hatchery needs.
There is an allocation for FSC as a priority fishery, followed by an expected catch for Rec. In most years where there is an abundance which allows for Commercial opportunities the Rec fishery does not achieve their expected catch. By agreement, the un-used portion of rec catch is available to other sectors. In this year's fishery the unanticipated overage in Area D gill net was covered by the large underage in rec catch. There are many reasons why the Rec catch did not achieve their target catch. Questions like....could the Rec fleet have achieved their expected catch if the Area D gill net fishery was withheld until following the Long Weekend? Would holding Area D to fishing after the long weekend have impacted their fishery? Also the question is was allowing an Area D fishery pre-long weekend an impact to the success of the Rec fishery? If so, is there other ways to allow an Area D fishery pre-long weekend that would minimize the impacts to Rec expected catch? Another question is are the current Chinook Conservation measures (closures in Rainy and San Mateo Bays) impacting the capacity of the Rec fishery to achieve their expected catch? Are there other ways to increase Rec catch?
Frankly from my years experience fishing this fishery this was a strange season. The August heavy rains resulted in a wave of fish that shot straight to the river mouth very early, which had a significant role in impacting rec catch. Once those fish arrived, within a short time they held up and most stopped biting. Prior to the actual Area D fishery, the catches started to decrease. Could delaying the Area D fishery to following the long weekend have helped rec catch - most certainly IMO, but the real question is to what degree? I think we will need to wrestle with finding a number of ways for next season to improve Rec catch, and also improve controls that could be put in place to ensure that if there are Area D fisheries pre-long weekend that will impact the rec fishery success, how do we manage those better to lessen the impacts? IMO it is all about respect at the Round Table to find ways to create true win/win situations. This season was not exactly a full win/win for certain IMO. Going forward we need to figure this out so there are opportunities for Area D that can take place while not significantly impacting Rec opportunities. Time will tell as to how those discussions play out and if there is a level of mutual understanding and respect for the needs of all sectors.
There is an allocation for FSC as a priority fishery, followed by an expected catch for Rec. In most years where there is an abundance which allows for Commercial opportunities the Rec fishery does not achieve their expected catch. By agreement, the un-used portion of rec catch is available to other sectors. In this year's fishery the unanticipated overage in Area D gill net was covered by the large underage in rec catch. There are many reasons why the Rec catch did not achieve their target catch. Questions like....could the Rec fleet have achieved their expected catch if the Area D gill net fishery was withheld until following the Long Weekend? Would holding Area D to fishing after the long weekend have impacted their fishery? Also the question is was allowing an Area D fishery pre-long weekend an impact to the success of the Rec fishery? If so, is there other ways to allow an Area D fishery pre-long weekend that would minimize the impacts to Rec expected catch? Another question is are the current Chinook Conservation measures (closures in Rainy and San Mateo Bays) impacting the capacity of the Rec fishery to achieve their expected catch? Are there other ways to increase Rec catch?
Frankly from my years experience fishing this fishery this was a strange season. The August heavy rains resulted in a wave of fish that shot straight to the river mouth very early, which had a significant role in impacting rec catch. Once those fish arrived, within a short time they held up and most stopped biting. Prior to the actual Area D fishery, the catches started to decrease. Could delaying the Area D fishery to following the long weekend have helped rec catch - most certainly IMO, but the real question is to what degree? I think we will need to wrestle with finding a number of ways for next season to improve Rec catch, and also improve controls that could be put in place to ensure that if there are Area D fisheries pre-long weekend that will impact the rec fishery success, how do we manage those better to lessen the impacts? IMO it is all about respect at the Round Table to find ways to create true win/win situations. This season was not exactly a full win/win for certain IMO. Going forward we need to figure this out so there are opportunities for Area D that can take place while not significantly impacting Rec opportunities. Time will tell as to how those discussions play out and if there is a level of mutual understanding and respect for the needs of all sectors.
Searun I have no problem with all sectors getting a piece of the pie, especially as you have said before that this is basically a fully enhanced run designed to be harvested. If everyone is getting a crack at the resource then the program is a success, not trying to debate that.
Why is it that the hatchery cannot be satisfied first and foremost to ensure that every year gets the best chance at repeating this years success, not many years in recent memory is there 100k+ chinook return to the canal, and than to have 89,000 chinook removed before the hatchery has it's mere 21,000 escapement. Once the hatchery has it's brood stock, kill everything that's left in the water after that. To have ANOTHER commercial opening while the hatchery was 8,000 chinook short of it's brood stock requirement leaves someone on the outside scratching their head on what the heck.
My one question however was the biggest opening for the gillnets were not long before the derby, in which the gillnets went well above their TAC, that easily would have caused for poor fishing for the recretional fleet with that many pieces removed there would have been no time to have a new wave of fish arrive.
The area23 website has not been updated since September 17 and the commercial opening, did they get their 2,000 pieces? How is escapement looking?
Final note, I thought it was agreed upon that sockeye was managed for commercial interests with recretional taking a back seat and chinook/coho was priortized for recretional and commerical taking the back seat in the area?
Why is it that the hatchery cannot be satisfied first and foremost to ensure that every year gets the best chance at repeating this years success, not many years in recent memory is there 100k+ chinook return to the canal, and than to have 89,000 chinook removed before the hatchery has it's mere 21,000 escapement. Once the hatchery has it's brood stock, kill everything that's left in the water after that. To have ANOTHER commercial opening while the hatchery was 8,000 chinook short of it's brood stock requirement leaves someone on the outside scratching their head on what the heck.
My one question however was the biggest opening for the gillnets were not long before the derby, in which the gillnets went well above their TAC, that easily would have caused for poor fishing for the recretional fleet with that many pieces removed there would have been no time to have a new wave of fish arrive.
The area23 website has not been updated since September 17 and the commercial opening, did they get their 2,000 pieces? How is escapement looking?
Final note, I thought it was agreed upon that sockeye was managed for commercial interests with recretional taking a back seat and chinook/coho was priortized for recretional and commerical taking the back seat in the area?
searun
Well-Known Member
Yes the current allocation policy is as you stated. The fishing plan for A23 is developed jointly by all stakeholders at the RT. We also conduct a post season review to discuss performance and agree upon measures that improve outcomes for all sectors where there have been notable exceptions. This year is no different, and there will be issues raised and potential solutions discussed. I don't think it benefits anyone to debate those here, best saved for the RT.
As for the hatchery, our goal is to achieve the target. There was some debate and not exactly full agreement we should roll the dice hoping there will be a wave of late Chinook that show up in October. Last season that happened, but there is no guarantee we will see that every season.
The pro fishing view is that we are seeing an average of 400+ through the counting fence daily and at that rate will achieve the target in a few weeks. There was also an observed large group of fish schooled in the lower river.
Escapement numbers and final fishery catch data will be available at tomorrows meeting for this weekly update. My understanding was that FN's fishery was highly successful, and the Area D not so much. That is based on word of mouth, so best we await the final approved catch numbers and not speculate.
As for the hatchery, our goal is to achieve the target. There was some debate and not exactly full agreement we should roll the dice hoping there will be a wave of late Chinook that show up in October. Last season that happened, but there is no guarantee we will see that every season.
The pro fishing view is that we are seeing an average of 400+ through the counting fence daily and at that rate will achieve the target in a few weeks. There was also an observed large group of fish schooled in the lower river.
Escapement numbers and final fishery catch data will be available at tomorrows meeting for this weekly update. My understanding was that FN's fishery was highly successful, and the Area D not so much. That is based on word of mouth, so best we await the final approved catch numbers and not speculate.
searun
Well-Known Member
Current escapement is now just under 18,000, shy the target by 3,104. Big push of fish moving up below the falls now, so it appears my concerns regarding meeting escapement target were completely unfounded. There are averaging 500 to 600 per day going through the counters, up from prior weeks. So far 89,149 fish have been caught/removed in all fisheries combined (9192 for Rec). Total run accounted for (escapement plus harvest) is 109,613. Last week the Area D Gill net fishery caught 43 Chinook, and FN 1,767. Seems to me that with the current levels of escapement, we could have more FSC fisheries and the plan is to allow that to take place - there is certainly a planned coho FSC fishery upcoming. There will be a post-season review held for all stakeholders to bring forward concerns and recommendations to address those. Personally my view is so long as we are able to ensure proper escapement on an enhanced run of fish, we need to work hard to ensure all stakeholders achieve their maximum benefit from those fish.
searun
Well-Known Member
Also factor in covid impacts on angling effort, which was down. Also couple that with a significant rain event in mid Aug which pulled a lot of the fish that normally hold out in Barkley Sound into the river mouth area. That removed a lot of fish from access to the fishery. So a lot of factors at play there.
So, in the end everybody more or less caught their share and escapement targets look like they will be met. The fly in the ointment is the annual reduction in available fish for "the derby". I say again, move "the derby" up a week or two and you won't have the usual conflict with the gillnet opening. Sorry if this seems so bloody obvious and easy to fix.
searun
Well-Known Member
That is laughable. The recreational fishery peak is the full month of August - especially the last 2 weeks of August. Having a Gill Net fishery during that time significantly impacts the ability of the Rec fishery to meet their expected catch. In checking with the Area 25 guys, they experienced the exact same issues.
In this instance, the Rec catch was about half of expectations and the uncaught Rec fish go directly to other sectors to catch. There is NO question that removing 19,000 fish in August in one fishery on one day impacted the opportunity for the Rec sector to achieve their expected catch. Suggesting the derby is moved is a red herring and totally disrespects any attempt to understand and meet the needs of the Rec sector. If that comes up as a "solution" suggested at the RT it will be taken as a slap in the face by the Rec sector and break down one of the fundamental core principles of the Table.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Agreed its not about the Derby its about the Fish being cleaned out before Recs have a chance to catch them and as per DFO's order of operation we are suppose to get priority over commercial for chinook. Sockeye, Chum, Pink different story.
Not only did they clean out the fish but then they get to go back when the recs don't catch as much. Yet the primary reason why the recs did not catch is much is because there was less fish available. I believe if you typed that equation into excel you would get a circular reference error lol
Not only did they clean out the fish but then they get to go back when the recs don't catch as much. Yet the primary reason why the recs did not catch is much is because there was less fish available. I believe if you typed that equation into excel you would get a circular reference error lol
searun
Well-Known Member
I should also correct some info I posted - I mis-spoke.
The total Terminal Area Run forecast is 117,000. The escapement requirement is 21,000, leaving 96,000 for allocation to sectors. The allocations are:
Maa-nulth = 1820
Expected Rec Catch = 38,610
Tsu-ma-uss FSC = 2000
Tsu-ma-uss Economic Opportunity = 24,695
Commercial Net = 26,695
Sport actual/observed catch which includes Barkley and the Inlet = 17,488, this is 21,122 below the expected catch, or 55% was left uncaught by the Rec Sector. By agreement and tradition uncaught Rec fish will be reallocated to other sectors. This is a principle the Rec sector has supported so long as the fishery takes place in a manner in which our ability to achieve our expected catch is not impeded. The issues at hand are did the fishery plan as executed impact Rec expected catch, and are there alternative approaches that can be implemented in future to facilitate a more successful Rec fishery for future seasons?
The total Terminal Area Run forecast is 117,000. The escapement requirement is 21,000, leaving 96,000 for allocation to sectors. The allocations are:
Maa-nulth = 1820
Expected Rec Catch = 38,610
Tsu-ma-uss FSC = 2000
Tsu-ma-uss Economic Opportunity = 24,695
Commercial Net = 26,695
Sport actual/observed catch which includes Barkley and the Inlet = 17,488, this is 21,122 below the expected catch, or 55% was left uncaught by the Rec Sector. By agreement and tradition uncaught Rec fish will be reallocated to other sectors. This is a principle the Rec sector has supported so long as the fishery takes place in a manner in which our ability to achieve our expected catch is not impeded. The issues at hand are did the fishery plan as executed impact Rec expected catch, and are there alternative approaches that can be implemented in future to facilitate a more successful Rec fishery for future seasons?
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
If the commercial fleet in season does not catch their quota they give them more openings. If the rec sector is tracking below our expected catch why not allow increased limits? isn't this the approach with sockeye where limits are increased from 2 a day to 4 a day? Or if we are expecting a large return why not start at 4 and reduce if necessary.
Other options are ITQ's for the gillnet fleet and spilt effort. These kind of options tho seem like they would be highly controversial at the table. IT would also seem that First Nation EO and Commercial have a vested interest in the recs under performing. So i don't expect these discussion will be easy.
Other options are ITQ's for the gillnet fleet and spilt effort. These kind of options tho seem like they would be highly controversial at the table. IT would also seem that First Nation EO and Commercial have a vested interest in the recs under performing. So i don't expect these discussion will be easy.
This might be hitting the nail on the head, hard to negotiate in good faith when other groups at the table are hoping for your failure not your success, if there was a possibility of 100k+ chinook which seemed crazy for the inlet given recent year returns why not start the limit at 4 as you said and scale back if required moving forward.
Limit at 4 is not nearly as aggressive as removing nearly 20,000 fish in one day given (gillnet) and in most years that's over 50% OR more of the entire run.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I read on the gillnetters facebook page that the rec quota is basically not meet every year because when the board was formed the rec fleet had a lot more boats out fishing. Since then rec pressure (effort) has been decreasing.
The Somass system is not a hatchery only run too bad the representatives see it that way just like steelhead they are ignored so full exploitation can occur, how many of the old derby winners were clones. How many wild chinook were caught this year, most of the chinook I caught were wild, I think the extra fish this year were wilds and that bumped up the number returning, fisheries managers should be more concerned with putting spawning wilds on beds than brood in hatchery.
searun
Well-Known Member
Vast majority of what appear to be wild fish caught in this fishery are actually hatchery origin based on the 5+ years of DNA sampling I have personally participated in. Not all the fish caught in the fishery are Robertson fish, in fact this year's derby winner wasn't. DFO currently adjusts the number of rec fish caught in Barkley Sound Rec fishery down to 65% that are attributed coming from Robertson (based on DNA), and my DNA & otolith data shows 80 - 85 % of all the (WILD unmarked) fish I catch in Barkley are hatchery origin. BTW, in the numbers I'm quoting, I do also catch clipped hatchery fish not included in the DNA analysis as we are sampling to determine the number of wild unmarked Chinook that are actually hatchery fish. Canada only marks 10% of our hatchery produced fish, but thermally marks all of them. So you are catching hatchery fish, you just don't know it. Wild component of the run is only hovering around 10% most years, and yes DFO stock assessment is present at the RT providing science advice to the Reps.
Pre Robertson hatchery, the actual wild chinook run was no where near what we experience today. The wild carrying capacity of the river and productivity simply isn't there. If we closed down the hatchery, you would see a very steep decline in this fishery.
PS note - we can determine which fish are hatchery origin by removing and reading the otolith bone which will show growth rings similar to a tree - when all hatchery fish are thermally marked by raising//lowering water temp, that leaves a distinct thermal mark on the otolith - this is used to resolve which "wild" fish are not actually wild...and DNA samples resolve which stock composition we are dealing with.
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