cohochinook
Well-Known Member
Here's Watershed Watch's Post on Facebook on it:
https://www.facebook.com/163765883653829/posts/3043798138983908/
https://www.facebook.com/163765883653829/posts/3043798138983908/
Federal government measures failed to protect endangered Chinook salmon in 2019
- Thread starter SpringVelocity
- Start date
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
The chart as indicated is a crock as far as WCVI Troll goes.
I, personally, have been taking these exact samples for nearly two decades now.
To say they do not exit is pure bull$****.
Period.
Nog
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
I saw your post, and I see Watershed's position. This is re posted on Facebook on public comment section. Look at the words" read the backgrounder"
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
I'm working on a response. Feel free to jump in with comment if you want?
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ziggy
Well-Known Member
Lol group of professional fundraisers
I should add I will gladly donate to these pseudo scientists when I hear they are actively monitoring the legal and illegal netting in the Fraser. I’ll double the donation when the Activists start pulling illegal nets! Until then they can continue to bleed the unwitting.
I should add I will gladly donate to these pseudo scientists when I hear they are actively monitoring the legal and illegal netting in the Fraser. I’ll double the donation when the Activists start pulling illegal nets! Until then they can continue to bleed the unwitting.
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Sparks are really flying on the facebook page tonight.
ChinookExerciser
Active Member
ChinookExerciser
Active Member
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Good science relies on being questioned while religion is faith based and in some cases as we have witnessed recently cannot tolerate being questioned. While I don’t agree with personal attacks from either side and the Facebook link had many, it’s very weak in my opinion to not question assertions made, estimates, or in the case of the press release being questioned the total lack of estimates.
To demean those who question the methodology by characterizing them as self professed experts who shoot the messenger, when you in fact are doing just that erodes your credibility. Let’s be honest, there are no true experts out there, in truth the real scientists are demanding research because they realize this.
Papers like the one that’s being commented on cannot be defended when they totally dismiss any effort to assess harvesting in the Fraser itself for political reasons Perhaps it is “walking on eggshells” but if you don’t have the courage to speak up and walk on those eggshells you need to be called out for your partial research. This information is vital to the theory! Will ocean closures protect the stock if there are insufficient control in the river? Or are we just harvesting the same fish in a different area.
Hooton is a well respected individual but I have to wonder if he was commenting on the right link?
IronNoggin
Well-Known Member
I see they nuked all my comments after I called them out as "pseudo-scientists more interested in producing gullible donations rather than a focus on real science".
Wonder if they will let my next one stand?
"In your eagerness to apply "blame" and subsequent restrictions, you completely fail to even mention the two "elephants in the room". Namely depredation on an unprecedented scale by overpopulated pinniped populations, and in-river gill net fishing. Until you can address those very pressing matters, why would anyone even consider your assumption biased and self serving propaganda?"
Cheers,
Nog
Wonder if they will let my next one stand?
"In your eagerness to apply "blame" and subsequent restrictions, you completely fail to even mention the two "elephants in the room". Namely depredation on an unprecedented scale by overpopulated pinniped populations, and in-river gill net fishing. Until you can address those very pressing matters, why would anyone even consider your assumption biased and self serving propaganda?"
Cheers,
Nog
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Time to start connecting the dots....
Attachments
ziggy
Well-Known Member
Lol, it’s all becoming clear now.
cohochinook
Well-Known Member
The Truth is Out There!
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
Greg?
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
@ChinookExerciser What did you leave? You can't just copy and paste and simply run away. How can we have debate? Come on no more " look at the backgrounder"?
You obviously came on here for a reason, and we would like to know why?
You obviously came on here for a reason, and we would like to know why?
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SpringVelocity
Crew Member
For anyone reading this Watershed Watch, David Suzuki, and Raincoast are maintaining that catch and release is 37% mortality using Greg Taylor's paper. No no one disputes there is mortality, but when you read other studies done that number is ridiculously over inflated.
Take this recent catch and release study of Steelhead in Idaho as an example:
https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/media/idfg_report_response_to_fmep_comments_2_8_19.pdf
What bothers me is that these groups seem to be pushing the minister this year to close down fisheries with this paper. Here is what has been asked for in the IMFP by the NGO's for the chinook fishery:
See how the FRIM mortality is in there:
Interesting terminal fisheries seem just fine, and may need to be expanded?
Take this recent catch and release study of Steelhead in Idaho as an example:
https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/media/idfg_report_response_to_fmep_comments_2_8_19.pdf
What bothers me is that these groups seem to be pushing the minister this year to close down fisheries with this paper. Here is what has been asked for in the IMFP by the NGO's for the chinook fishery:
See how the FRIM mortality is in there:
Interesting terminal fisheries seem just fine, and may need to be expanded?
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wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Its because last year there was almost no one out there catching and releasing chinook during the 4-2 run timing especially, 5-2 a bit more but still really low. So because there was such a low rate of fishing they were forced to bump up the mortality number to 37% to try and prove there case "shut down rec catch and release".
Also if Greg Taylor and MCC actually knew anything they would no that first nations dont eat fall 4-1. Fall 4-1's are black by the time they are in the fraser. The ESSR Hatchery 4-1 that First Nations do get i believe are just sent to a reduction plant and they get the funds.
The wild 4-1 that are intercepted by beach seines and just left to rot on a bar we have all seen the pictures....
the butcher
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Before they make a statement that the same amount of anglers were out to catch and release they should get off their asses and check the ramps to see how many boat trailers were parked there or get in a boat and survey how many boat were out on the water. I was barely out during that time and the few times I got out here was hardly anyone on the water. Made a run over to thraser for some bottom fish during may on a sunny weekend when there should be loads of boat over there during a peak time for salmon fishing... It was a ghost town there when it should have been a full house.
the butcher
Well-Known Member
Damn tree huggers...just as idiotic as the people they complain about(DFO). Cut cut cut.... There are so many different areas and thing that can be done to actually make a difference in terms of real impact yet they choose to ignore it. If they were really that concerned with the welfare of the Chinook salmon, they should be pushing for a seal cull... Seals and sea lions take out so much more salmon from the waters than any policy changes to the rec sector... I'd have more respect for these groups if they actually targeted their actions towards things that would actually make a real impact. By not targeting seals or other factors that do some major damage to Chinook numbers because they have a no kill policy, they are being hypocrites. So it's OK for them to pursue policies to keep salmon population healthy so that killer whales can feed on them but yet, it's not ok to protect salmon species of concern with a seal cull? Makes no damn sense.
“Fall 4-1’s are black by the time they hit the Fraser”- LOFL
The only mortalities with the 5-2, 4/2 is the in river gill netting, slide and seals in river. As for the C and R mortalities there was hardly anybody out. There are so few upper Fraser early Chinook that even if it was open for us in the JDF and straight that the interception would be minimal. Maybe back 20 years ago the intercepted numbers would be around the numbers they are saying. Trying to find an early Fraser Chinook in the ocean would be like winning the lottery these days.
These tree huggers want to actually help this stock out then they should be addressing the seal problem and in river netting. Until they do that all the closures in the world ain’t gonna help these fish.
The only mortalities with the 5-2, 4/2 is the in river gill netting, slide and seals in river. As for the C and R mortalities there was hardly anybody out. There are so few upper Fraser early Chinook that even if it was open for us in the JDF and straight that the interception would be minimal. Maybe back 20 years ago the intercepted numbers would be around the numbers they are saying. Trying to find an early Fraser Chinook in the ocean would be like winning the lottery these days.
These tree huggers want to actually help this stock out then they should be addressing the seal problem and in river netting. Until they do that all the closures in the world ain’t gonna help these fish.
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