2019 Fraser Chinook Management Actions UPDATED!!

They NEED to put legislation through to change the act that stops a halibut and conservation stamp. I’d be fine with me and my guests paying $50-60 per license. The increase $20 to buying back halibut quota for rec sector and $20 to habitat restoration.
 
In your own dialog all that you are really saying is it's a battle for greatest dollar value between sectors. Can you imagine if all of the commercial focused people stepped away from Pacific Salmon Foundation and other related charities, or stopped volunteering at hatcheries or habitat rehabilitation projects, or even stopped supporting derbies...you are being very narrow sighted when you say that it is just sport anglers who help the resource.
I was speaking in terms of economics, as its the only motive the commercial sector has, nobody commercial fishes for enjoyment, there are very few if any commercial-fleet sponsored hatchery programs or enhancement initiatives (that I know of), while the list of recreational and FN contributions to enhancement is too long to list, and most of these initiatives are born out of a genuine concern and passion for the fishery. There is no catch+release commercial fishery, there is only "pull as many fish as we are allowed out of the ocean and then leave" - and why wouldnt they? The government lets them! Its about managing a resource in a way that best serves the people. A handful of already-rich folk get slightly richer (at the rate of $20/Kg apparently, minus the cost of doing business of course) to the detriment of thousands of BC residents and tourists. What is the end to the means?

The "commercial people" youre referring to are largely tackle shops, sportfishing wholesalers, marinas, dealerships, etc. Sure theyre commercial entities in the sense that theyre operating a business, but I wouldnt consider those contributions coming from the "commercial troll fleet".

As far as https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Fos2_Internet/commercialSM/salmonCatchStats.cfm?year=2018 goes, the sockeye were pretty thick in Area F for a couple weeks, you could hear the fleet talking about it on the radio, Im sure more than a few were kept for dinner and for friends/family. As accurate as those numbers for pieces retained commercially might be, it certainly doesnt tell the whole story.
 
As far as salmon stamps go, the rec sector has proven time and time again that they dont mind footing the bill if its for the good of the fish. I doubt anybody outside of a few crusty old curmudgeon cheapskates would have anything to say about a $20 increase. Licences are way too cheap and allow for too many fish to be retained as is. I would fully support paying $100 or more for an annual licence if the proceeds went back into the water.
 
If the powers at be guaranteed that every cent from a stamp went into the water and putting fish into the water I think most would be willing to pay twice that, shoot I’d pay $100 a year and not blink an eye at it. But money in the hands of bureaucrats seems to disappear awfully fast and not in the right places. Raises, offices, more hires all money squandered and very little put into the water. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you want to make a difference in this, set goals set agendas and take the politicians out of it. Privatize it, ensure the companies hired meet certain goals within reason of course then you will have results. It doesn’t matter what party is in place because they pay the same idiots to get the job done. It’s the bureaucrats sitting in these offices that have to be held responsible, who do they answer to, who are they accountable to, no one,, just another government employee union tit sucker down the hall that’s who. Governments have shown time and again they are not capable of managing oceans and fisheries how many times are we going to let them make the same mistakes, they have failed again !!!

How far has privatizing 85% of our halibut resource brought us? Great idea, more of that! lol
 
Salmon stamp should of been indexed to inflation, Now i know the SFAB has asked for this so don't blame anyone on here for it not happening. DFO has been stonewalling it no idea why.
 
I was speaking in terms of economics, as its the only motive the commercial sector has, nobody commercial fishes for enjoyment, there are very few if any commercial-fleet sponsored hatchery programs or enhancement initiatives (that I know of), while the list of recreational and FN contributions to enhancement is too long to list, and most of these initiatives are born out of a genuine concern and passion for the fishery. There is no catch+release commercial fishery, there is only "pull as many fish as we are allowed out of the ocean and then leave" - and why wouldnt they? The government lets them! Its about managing a resource in a way that best serves the people. A handful of already-rich folk get slightly richer (at the rate of $20/Kg apparently, minus the cost of doing business of course) to the detriment of thousands of BC residents and tourists. What is the end to the means?

The "commercial people" youre referring to are largely tackle shops, sportfishing wholesalers, marinas, dealerships, etc. Sure theyre commercial entities in the sense that theyre operating a business, but I wouldnt consider those contributions coming from the "commercial troll fleet".

As far as https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Fos2_Internet/commercialSM/salmonCatchStats.cfm?year=2018 goes, the sockeye were pretty thick in Area F for a couple weeks, you could hear the fleet talking about it on the radio, Im sure more than a few were kept for dinner and for friends/family. As accurate as those numbers for pieces retained commercially might be, it certainly doesnt tell the whole story.

You make a very interesting argument. I think it is important because it highlights how there can be a great deal more to "valuing" fish than their economic value in terms of generating jobs and sustaining the "cash economy". You seem to suggest that the enjoyment of sportfishing is a value worth maintaining and in fact encouraging. I agree.
 
Finger pointing will get us nowhere. There's a fish shortage problem affecting all fishing sectors.... and we are all fishermen. Its not about the past or even the present ......its about the future..... and what we do about it. We need to row together if we're to get anywhere ........gentlemen......fishermen.
 
I was contemplating moving to a small town like Gold river, Bamfield.... Tahsis or Port Alice. What consequences will these new regs do to these small towns?They are already treading water.
 
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I was contemplating moving to a small town like Gold river, Bamfield.... Tahsis or Port Alice. What consequences will these new regs do to these small towns?They are already treading water.
Barkley and Nootka/esperanza might be the only places to fish still so maybe a good move!
 
Get ur block button ready again Nog, more dissenting opinions are on the way! Protect yourself at all times!

I was going to let this sleeping dog lie but there seems to be enough discussion that I may as well fling my **** at the wall too. Ill preface it and say I dont fault the commercial fishermen for the way things are, theyre not the ones making the rules, they work hard and are just trying to earn a living and thats always going to be respectable. My issue stems mostly from the mismanagement of the resource.

Commercial vs sport. Since my original question never got answered I suppose Ill pose it again. Can anybody tell me the economic value of a commercially caught chinook vs a sport caught one?

I work at a very small lodge in the summer. That means Im on the water 10-12 hours every day for 3 months straight, and I get a front row seat to the Area F commercial troll fishery. Our lodge flies in guests for 3 or 4 day trips, priced around 6-8k per person per trip. Each of these guests can take home 4 (sometimes only 2 depending on the regulations) chinooks. Our lodge has 7 boats, which accomodate 2 guests each, and we do roughtly 22 trips a season. Thats 14 guests, 22 times a season - or 308 guests per season. If the regs stayed at 4 chinooks per possession limit all season long, and every single guest that visited the lodge limited out, were talking about 1200 chinooks selectively sportfished over the span of 90 days.

Now lets look at the commercial side. Admittedly Im not a commercial fisherman so in a lot of cases I wont be able to give exact numbers, but maybe some of the commercial guys can correct me if my estimations are way out of line. The commercial opening tends to start some time in July although last year it was delayed and this year it looks to be delayed again possibly. I fish the west side of the Haida Gwaii at the south end of the commercial boundary and on opening day Ill see anywhere from 10-50 commercial vessels, most days Ill see around 20-30 if visibility is good. Supposedly the # of vessels in this fleet is somwhere between 75-150. Usually the opening runs a month or maybe 6 weeks, however long it takes for the quota to be met. Many boats come north with 1 quota, which I believe is somewhere in the neighborhood of 600-800 pieces. Other boats come north with 2 or 3 quotas as well as coho and sockeye quotas. On opening day last year west of Langara I heard that some of the fleet took over 300 pieces. Thats more than 300 fish, for one boat, likely all caught from the same spot, the same body of fish, in the same day. A stark contrast to a lodge boat selectively taking one fish at a time, even on the best of fishing days (6 fish total if the guide limits out also).

Now from an economical pespective, the lodge patron is putting $1500-$2000 into the local economy for each chinook salmon he or she is allowed to bring home. If you assume the guests also limited on halibut, its still ~$1000-$1300 per fish. As you can see, its pretty big business. Each lodge has to have a full house staff, dock staff, chefs, guides, pilots, baggage handlers, meet+greeters, office staff, marketing staff, mechanics, etc. There is literally an entire industry built around it. Now compare that to commercial fishing. Each fish is worth what, 50, maybe 100 bucks? Seems pretty obvious to me which scenario presents a better economic opportunity.

Of course the commercial fleet will point to the numbers and say "look, we only took X amount, while sportfishers in bc took Y amount!" which to me is completely missing the point. Who benefits from the commercial troll fishery? Its not joe schmo at the supermarket - hes buying farmed atlantic. Its not the commercial fishermen - every year it gets harder to make a living, many of them have to collect EI just to survive. Its certainly not the salmon, being flung over the rail and flash frozen to be sent abroad. The only people I see prospering from this sector are the few commercial licence holders (believe I saw someone on here describe them as "slipper skippers" - older guy fishes around winter harbour or nootka, cant remember his name) and those in other countries that get to buy wild pacific salmon for pennies on the dollar!
I’m into fishing for between $2500-$30000 in my first couple of years, and I’ve kept 14 fish over those two years at a total of 90lbs I’ve paid over $2000 per fish and over $306 per pound. I should have gone to your lodge to save money!
 
Well if we want to save some chinook, first get the govt to go back to the old license, then the huge numbers of fishers who fish multiple licenses will stop, second drop the annual limit to 10, nobody needs 30 chinook in a year, thirdly get the nets out of the river. Ok for FN ceremonial fishing, well apparently it is a right, so be it, but if a FN is caught selling fish, then throw the book at them, they lose their privilege/ status to fish and pay fines that anyone else would pay, the govt needs to grow some balls for breaking the law no matter what colour or race. If we the rec sector take it up the butt big time and can't fish just to have the vast majority of fish taken in the river, it is all for nothing!!!!! Now before all you leaf lickers think this is a rant against the FN , it is not, we can't have one section of our society not be accountable while the rest are made accountable.
 
Great post Jackel....I am all for conservation. If conservation is the true goal here, Make it across the board.
With absolute ZERO economic openings within the Fraser. Every year the in river fisheries keep getting more frequent and longer. The fish have no chance. When we have interception rates of almost 50% on our Fraser stocks between the mouth and the Fraser canyon there is no future for these fish.

Personally the town of ucluelet will be short around 15k from my family if these closures come in to effect. Not too mention we were thinking of buying a rental property within ucluelet this year.
These coastal communities and people will devastated by these archaic closures that barely encounter Fraser Chinook.


Letters from all members of my family, friends and coworkers have all been sent!
 

Referring to your page 2 post and looking at ..........Table 3: Summary of Proposed Actions for Scenarios A&B......we see "no measures proposed for fraser chinook" entered in a few places. What are we supposed to make of it? For example looking at Fishery/Recreational WCVI AABM (Areas 121 to 127) there is a proposal for Scenario A but none proposed for B. Besides the obvious... there simply is no proposal. What significance is this?.... stay tuned for something special later in 2019 ..... status quo... or no fishing??? Maybe I haven't had enough coffee this morning.
 
I am hoping we all sent our email off to Jeff from DFO. If you haven't can you do it this weekend thanks. It takes maybe 10 minutes at most. Probably less time then reading or writing on here. Which to be honest DFO doesn't read or make decisions on.

It is being noticed so keep sending them.

Thanks guys. Emails again here.

Jeff Grout, Regional Resource Manager, Salmon Jeff.Grout@dfo-mpo.gc.ca DFO

Pacific Salmon Team DFO.PacificSalmonRMT-EGRSaumonduPacifique.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
 
I am hoping we all sent our email off to Jeff from dfo. If you havent can you do it this weekend thanks. It takes maybe 10 minutes at most. Probably less time then reading or writing on here. Which to be honest DFO doesnt read or make decisions on.

It is being noticed so keep sending them.

Thanks guys.

Send ones with your wife’s email!! Use her maiden name double your output!!
 
Allow the Alberta pipeline to be built with stipulation of $25 million a year gets given to Salmon enhancement projects... Both provinces win!
 
Weather Alberta gets its oil to market "responsibly" and the people of Canada prospers, or Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Iran, Iraq, India or Russia fills the void and prospers and Canada loses.... Believe me, they do not produce their oil nearly as responsible as Canada!!... But whatever, this is a salmon thread... Just thought I'd give some ideas! Nevermind!
 
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