2019 Fraser Chinook Management Actions UPDATED!!

[SerengetiGuide]

When you send say option B is bull s#!t too and it will make many people lose their jobs in areas 18-20 etc. Option A is there to distract you. None of these options are ok.

 

[Ringo]

Option A = BS
Option B = BS
DFO = Ministry of A..holeness
Natives = bunch of bast..ds who take all our fish
Commercial fishers = Useless bunch who sell our fish to Asians
Only Rec fishing sector should have the right to take 4 fish/day and others should get out of our way

This is the mentality that has brought us to this point.

How come we don't get to bring home as many fish as we used to, 10-15 yrs ago? Do we all agree that the salmon stocks are in big trouble?

Enough finger pointing and blaming other parties for a problem that's for all of us. Unless we can lay out a SOLUTION roadmap and lobby it to the top of the government through the possible channels, nothing is going to change.

 

[IronNoggin]

What a sad and disgusting reply. As a commercial and local sports fishermen this attitude is a major part of the problem. Our sectors should be working together to hold DFO to the task of rebuilding stocks not tearing each other down. If I was to stoop to this level I suppose I should ask (and send a blanket email to all commercial fishermen asking to do the same) for a full southcoast closure on the recreational Chinook fishery as the rec sector is the largest user of chinooks, catch and release has significant mortality, many of the participants are foreign tourists, and the whales are hungry.

BINGO!

And the more this type of drivel gets posted (and seen), the greater the divide.

Shaking the old noggin once again...

Nog

 

[advTHXance]

Get ur block button ready again Nog, more dissenting opinions are on the way! Protect yourself at all times!

I was going to let this sleeping dog lie but there seems to be enough discussion that I may as well fling my **** at the wall too. Ill preface it and say I dont fault the commercial fishermen for the way things are, theyre not the ones making the rules, they work hard and are just trying to earn a living and thats always going to be respectable. My issue stems mostly from the mismanagement of the resource.

Commercial vs sport. Since my original question never got answered I suppose Ill pose it again. Can anybody tell me the economic value of a commercially caught chinook vs a sport caught one?

I work at a very small lodge in the summer. That means Im on the water 10-12 hours every day for 3 months straight, and I get a front row seat to the Area F commercial troll fishery. Our lodge flies in guests for 3 or 4 day trips, priced around 6-8k per person per trip. Each of these guests can take home 4 (sometimes only 2 depending on the regulations) chinooks. Our lodge has 7 boats, which accomodate 2 guests each, and we do roughtly 22 trips a season. Thats 14 guests, 22 times a season - or 308 guests per season. If the regs stayed at 4 chinooks per possession limit all season long, and every single guest that visited the lodge limited out, were talking about 1200 chinooks selectively sportfished over the span of 90 days.

Now lets look at the commercial side. Admittedly Im not a commercial fisherman so in a lot of cases I wont be able to give exact numbers, but maybe some of the commercial guys can correct me if my estimations are way out of line. The commercial opening tends to start some time in July although last year it was delayed and this year it looks to be delayed again possibly. I fish the west side of the Haida Gwaii at the south end of the commercial boundary and on opening day Ill see anywhere from 10-50 commercial vessels, most days Ill see around 20-30 if visibility is good. Supposedly the # of vessels in this fleet is somwhere between 75-150. Usually the opening runs a month or maybe 6 weeks, however long it takes for the quota to be met. Many boats come north with 1 quota, which I believe is somewhere in the neighborhood of 600-800 pieces. Other boats come north with 2 or 3 quotas as well as coho and sockeye quotas. On opening day last year west of Langara I heard that some of the fleet took over 300 pieces. Thats more than 300 fish, for one boat, likely all caught from the same spot, the same body of fish, in the same day. A stark contrast to a lodge boat selectively taking one fish at a time, even on the best of fishing days (6 fish total if the guide limits out also).

Now from an economical pespective, the lodge patron is putting $1500-$2000 into the local economy for each chinook salmon he or she is allowed to bring home. If you assume the guests also limited on halibut, its still ~$1000-$1300 per fish. As you can see, its pretty big business. Each lodge has to have a full house staff, dock staff, chefs, guides, pilots, baggage handlers, meet+greeters, office staff, marketing staff, mechanics, etc. There is literally an entire industry built around it. Now compare that to commercial fishing. Each fish is worth what, 50, maybe 100 bucks? Seems pretty obvious to me which scenario presents a better economic opportunity.

Of course the commercial fleet will point to the numbers and say "look, we only took X amount, while sportfishers in bc took Y amount!" which to me is completely missing the point. Who benefits from the commercial troll fishery? Its not joe schmo at the supermarket - hes buying farmed atlantic. Its not the commercial fishermen - every year it gets harder to make a living, many of them have to collect EI just to survive. Its certainly not the salmon, being flung over the rail and flash frozen to be sent abroad. The only people I see prospering from this sector are the few commercial licence holders (believe I saw someone on here describe them as "slipper skippers" - older guy fishes around winter harbour or nootka, cant remember his name) and those in other countries that get to buy wild pacific salmon for pennies on the dollar!

 

[Admin]

As this is a highly charged and emotional time for ALL involved in the practice of fishing for Chinook's, we will do our best to keep these threads on track and allow people to vent, as long as it stays respectful. When it comes to which "sector" does the most damage to the stocks, I am mindful of the the old adage "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones." I doubt that anyone who has a keen interest, whatever their reasons, in seeing Salmon populations flourish is completely innocent of not doing damage to the stocks over the years and has some type of self interest at heart. Please think about that before you point a finger at one or more of the other "sectors" and hit send. Time to band together and push the decision makers into finding solutions to the lack of Salmon rather than playing Rock, Paper, Scissors to see who gets to have the last ever bite at the dinner table.

Brian

 

[advTHXance]

Also worth noting that the bottom line in this issue is the health of our fish stocks. The rec sector goes far and beyond the call of duty to fund enhancement projects, hatcheries, habitat restoration, etc. The FN bands do too, but I never hear anything of the sort from the commercial sector. Would love to be proven wrong on that.

 

[california]

Get ur block button ready again Nog, more dissenting opinions are on the way! Protect yourself at all times!
Commercial vs sport. Since my original question never got answered I suppose Ill pose it again. Can anybody tell me the economic value of a commercially caught chinook vs a sport caught one?

You have kind of answered your own question. Not all lodges charge what you quote, a lot of the WCVI ones are more like $3,000, but even if they are sport caught by a non lodge guest various estimates I seem to remember seeing are sport caught fish generate anywhere from 4x to 10x the economic benefit vs commercial fish. There are suppliers of line, fuel, boat services etc to commercials as well. DFO knows that and has long been favouring sport allocations for Chinook and to a lesser extent coho. Sockeye, Pink and Chum are primarily considered the domain of commercial interests, sporties take small proportions of those species.

As for "Slipper skippers" this term is usually reserved for halibut or black cod quota holders who were gifted quota that has become very valuable and can now lease it out quite lucratively. I don't believe troll licences for chinook or coho are lucrative enough to make much off of them leasing them, but maybe some seine licenses for Sockeye Pink or Chum are, I dont know.

 

[Thegaunch]

Kinda sad

I live in Edmonton. I purchased a boat 5 years ago. I leave it in Campbell River. March,Apr,May,June,July,Aug,Sep I spend a week a month in Campbell River. I pay $400.00 air fare, $260.00 on a car rental, $150 in moorage, nearly $800 in fuel because its an inboard, $1000 in hotels and $500 in food in restaurants. A few bucks at the pool for a steam and another $100 or so at the tackle shop and no question a few hundred each month on boat repairs. I also spend about $600 to have the boat put in and taken out of the water at the beginning and end of the season. So just me... I come and spend roughly $3500 a month, $25,000 in 7 months in your local economy to take home a few fish and enjoy the amazing country. If the government would invest in a few hatcheries , I would be more than happy to spend a trip or 2 volunteering at it, sign me up! I am also considering moving to the island.... Campbell river, Tahsis, Gold River, Port Alice, Port Hardy areas....But if there is no fishing, there is nothing but the beauty of the area drawing me to the island.... really no point in moving all that way.

 

[Thegaunch]

Looks as if Jeffy is not taking emails



If your message is regarding 2019 Fraser River Chinook Conservation Measures, please direct your message if you have not already done so to the following e-mail address:


DFO.PacificSalmonRMT-EGRSaumonduPacifique.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca


This will ensure your message is reviewed and considered by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.


Thanks, Jeff

 

[IronNoggin]

Edited to add that continuing to slag other sectors gets you absolutely nowhere, except resentment from those you chose to toss crap at. A united front is the ONLY way we will see our way through this. Dissenters, such as "some" on this forum, have NO place at the table.
Period.
Endo.

Nog

 

[wildmanyeah]

What you surmise does not hold the fact that you are comparing apples to oranges and grapes. You are still chasing the same fish, in this case Chinook. An estimated 150,000 retained Chinook killed by the rec sector with no way of accurately tabulating these numbers at present time. Then we have commercial sector numbers 115,336 retained Chinook salmon, this includes by catch Chinook with accounted numbers through landing process. No one in their right mind would call to have a single sector shut down entirely by stopping another sectors fishing access. If you close one sector, they MUST close the other sectors. We only have two sectors now, FN have left the room and are negotiating Nation(FN) to Nation(Canada).

In fact this year the commercial Troll and Gill as well as Seine boats outside of terminal fishing areas have been severely affected in the 2019 Coast wide fishing plan. They won't have opportunities in many common areas of the coast this year other than terminal zones. The commercial fleet with these severe fishing restrictions are already putting fish first(Chinook) by default.

All sectors(The last 2) MUST work together to keep the government and DFO in check. Our resource sectors Canada wide are under attack. Eventually we will have nothing to fight over...the opportunities will be gone. There will be fish in the sea, gold and oil in the ground, the resources will be strong, however we ourselves, the people will have given it all up in petty battles among ourselves instead of keeping it all through powerful partnerships. Once we all stop pointing fingers the solutions will flow.

Supreme court also I think pretty much agrees with this, After FSC all sectors must be given equal opportunity. The allocation rewrite is coming and the rec sectors will be losing priority over Chinook and coho that is a fact. DFO was not justified in giving the rec sector priority over commercial for Chinook and coho.

150, 000 Chinook will be a pipe dream after the allocation policy is done. Maybe will be left with 50k that will be enough to have a non retention wild fishery or a hatch only fishery and maybe limited wild terminal fishery.

In these coming years it will be extremely important that the rec sector has good relationships with commercial sector and first nations. The negotiations will not be easy.

 

[advTHXance]

Funny that the 3 of you all chime in at once - even the guy who supposedly blocked my posts several days ago for not seeing things his way... ! Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I said I dont fault the hardworking commercial fishermen (and women), rather those in charge of managing the stocks, and the few who use the stocks to fill their pockets while giving little or nothing back.

Can one of you tell me exactly what the benefits of the commercial troll fishery (and herring roe fishery for that matter) are to our province? Why should the commercial fleet be entitled to any piece of the pie at all given the state of the fishery and the threats facing our fish? What does the commercial fishing sector do to enhance or sustain the resource? Sell me on commercial fishing!

 

[littlechucky]

Supreme court also I think pretty much agrees with this, After FSC all sectors must be given equal opportunity. The allocation rewrite is coming and the rec sectors will be losing priority over Chinook and coho that is a fact. DFO was not justified in giving the rec sector priority over commercial for Chinook and coho.

150, 000 Chinook will be a pipe dream after the allocation policy is done. Maybe will be left with 50k that will be enough to have a non retention wild fishery or a hatch only fishery and maybe limited wild terminal fishery.

In these coming years it will be extremely important that the rec sector has good relationships with commercial sector and first nations. The negotiations will not be easy.

If that is the case then the writing is on the wall for many guides, lodges, etc. Won’t be enough opportunity to justify the investment or create employment.

Sad.

I truly hope the government / dfo is prepared to work with everyone to ensure the opportunities we have continue.

That means real commitment, investment and collaboration with all groups.

I have my doubts.

 

[wildmanyeah]

If that is the case then the writing is on the wall for many guides, lodges, etc. Won’t be enough opportunity to justify the investment or create employment.

This has been the reality for any recreational sports fishing business along the Fraser now for almost 20 years. The switch to commercialising the stugeron and steelhead fishery saved some of the business in the Fraser Valley, as well as the stocking Go fish bc now does to local lakes, as well as a relatively stable hatchery coho and chum fishery (yes i know this was a **** year for chum).

 

[Powerset]

As I said in a previous post, look at how many salmon make it to the spawning beds. Over 80%. It is not DFO that is responsible for the disappearance of the Chinook. A lot more is going on and DFO is not responsible for it. We are.

Part of that particular battle that encompasses dfo is the Federal Government. If 80+ % of salmon make it back to spawn and yet numbers continue to tank why aren’t we investing there. Our government has allocated something like 9.5 Million bucks for habitat restoration. Now that pathetic amount of cash wouldn’t fix 1 mile of the Fraser River. As I have stated on here numerous times, our government is running between $17 and $40 billion dollar deficits every year since getting elected. And it’s not just a Liberal problem, the Conservatives didn’t invest in us either. But, when our government is stroking cheque’s to every user group east of Winnipeg and Westy gets to suck prairie dust, then there’s your answer. This has been a neglected expense that many governments have refused to invest in because they don’t recognize its value in eastern Canada it doesn’t matter enough in Ottawa it has become a local issue for BC but whatever the excuse we need billions invested in habitat restoration and enhancement and our government is writing cheque’s to the tune of 15 to 20 to 30,000,000,000 in deficits every single year and we’re getting none of it. We never have. We don’t matter politically, we never have. BC doesn’t carry enough seats in the House of Commons to matter other than in tight elections. Forget the woeful annual budget that neglects us, Liberals are bankrupting Canada through deficits and we can’t get anything extra to save one of the worlds most precious resources! Yet Our Government runs off to Paris, New York, The Hague, and rants at our environmental record and commitments. Carbon pricing? Seriously? How about a few bucks for British Columbia who has been carrying all of Canada on its back environmentally. We’ve had carbon pricing forever. This is a joke folks, we’re fighting over table scraps. Ottawa is buying votes from coast to coast, but not this coast, just the other 2

 

[littlechucky]

My personal opinion is we should be attaching a “conservation fee” to the rec fishing license with 100% going to salmon enhancement and habitat restoration. Something like $20 per license would be a start.

Also make the salmon stamp $20. That all goes to PSF.

300,000 licenses x $40 = $12 mm per year.

 

[walleyes]

My personal opinion is we should be attaching a “conservation fee” to the rec fishing license with 100% going to salmon enhancement and habitat restoration. Something like $20 per license would be a start.

Also make the salmon stamp $20. That all goes to PSF.

300,000 licenses x $40 = $12 mm per year.

If the powers at be guaranteed that every cent from a stamp went into the water and putting fish into the water I think most would be willing to pay twice that, shoot I’d pay $100 a year and not blink an eye at it. But money in the hands of bureaucrats seems to disappear awfully fast and not in the right places. Raises, offices, more hires all money squandered and very little put into the water. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you want to make a difference in this, set goals set agendas and take the politicians out of it. Privatize it, ensure the companies hired meet certain goals within reason of course then you will have results. It doesn’t matter what party is in place because they pay the same idiots to get the job done. It’s the bureaucrats sitting in these offices that have to be held responsible, who do they answer to, who are they accountable to, no one,, just another government employee union tit sucker down the hall that’s who. Governments have shown time and again they are not capable of managing oceans and fisheries how many times are we going to let them make the same mistakes, they have failed again !!!

 

[Thegaunch]

Most people would go for a Salmon stamp.... $20 is cheap! ... your rec fishing licenses are already cheap. Purchase a Hunting licence. $55.00 in Alberta to shoot a deer, and another bunch for a Bowhuting and hunting permit

 

[ILHG]

A lot of stressed out folks right now regarding the proposed salmon regs.. maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but populations cycle. In the mid nineties I hear you couldn't keep one fish up in Haida.

We had a warm blob, and poor survival for a few years. Numbers had a sharp fall off which is not a trend. Last year I seen a **** load of small 3yr old fish. If they all show up this year things could be much better.

The way people react no days with information overload (via the internet) is much like driving you car while only staring at your hood ornament. You need to be looking forward so dont hit the ditch

 

[wildmanyeah]

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Fos2_Internet/commercialSM/salmonCatchStats.cfm?year=2018