Important Victoria & Area SFAB Halibut Mtg Nov. 27

[UkeeDreamin]

I’m sorry but those are BS responses that don’t conform to accepted fisheries management practices or logical thinking. Once a quota is set, that’s the quota, whether folks move or they don’t move. So, unless there is a massive influx into the fishery from those not currently participating in it, it is virtually impossible for total effort to do anything but decrease from the current effort given the halibut fishery is essentially open all year, coast wide. There is also the fact that folks currently target halibut at certain times that differs in different areas regardless of the fact the season is open year round. The most obvious facts are the spring, fall and winter weather/sea state in many locations means halibut fishing didn’t historically or currently occur in certain seasons. Then there’s the fact in many areas the times lodges are open as well as the prime tourist months are static and not realistically going to be influenced by halibut reg nuances. Then there’s the reality, as you’ve pointed out, that a significant portion of the harvest occurs by single time users - either those taking a single trip to a lodge or taking a once annual charter, that’s not going to change. You also didn’t mention a very significant harvest goes to locals in the prominent halibut areas who fish their local waters regularly.

None of these things negate the inherent value of area, or even-subarea, based seasons and regs, particularly as any reg/season flexibility would have to trade off periods of closure (ie no harvest) or significantly reduced harvest (eg smaller size, reduced daily/possession/annual quota) against any regs that have the likelihood of higher harvest (eg larger fish, maintaining 2 in possession). To think the average tourist going to Tofino/Ukee for the summer, or booking a lodge trip to QCI, or hauling their boat for a dream trip to Kyoquot or Quatsino is going to change their plans just because the Hali regs are tweaked somewhat, is a stretch at best and would be impossible to differentiate between the equal or greater effect of the much more complex salmon, Ling, rockfish, prawn, crab, etc, etc seasons/regs.

I have to say, it is very concerning that myth and assumption are being used as excuses rather than sound, accepted and data supported fisheries science. As we always tell our kids, it doesn’t hurt to try!

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[wolf]

Well I can tell you this so called "gold rush" to fish the southern waters last year for a fish that was allowed to be 20 cm longer for the first month NEVER happened I was out there and their wasnt alot of people fishing , so the argument people will come is BULL. maybe ask the people that ARE on the water all the time ...in these so called waters. there were days you could see as far as you could see and not see another fisherman, (in certain spots).
And the amount of take in 3 months in these so called waters is a fart in a very huge wind storm compared to the west coast in 1 week.... FACT.....

 

[Aces]

Well I can tell you this so called "gold rush" to fish the southern waters last year for a fish that was allowed to be 20 cm longer for the first month NEVER happened I was out there and their wasnt alot of people fishing , so the argument people will come is BULL. maybe ask the people that ARE on the water all the time ...in these so called waters. there were days you could see as far as you could see and not see another fisherman, (in certain spots).
And the amount of take in 3 months in these so called waters is a fart in a very huge wind storm compared to the west coast in 1 week.... FACT.....

Maybe he meant fishers from the Victoria area going elsewhere to fish for Halibut?

 

[IronNoggin]

Well unless we find a way to get more fish in the water the trend will continue and the loss of revenues to all small communities will be unavoidable.

Yep. And yet we still have Hero's trying like hell to make us fit within the tiny little windows afforded us by the Department. And some years it works. And most of the time it is barely, but not really acceptable to most that do fish.

Quit buying into DFO's ********.
Quit trying to make the recreational sector's take fit into their ever decreasing windows.
It is a Fool's Errand to keep on trying to do so, especially in these days of ever increasing restrictions.

Want to REALLY make a difference?
Call them on it.
Go for 2 & 2 halibut, no size restriction.
Get that season shut down bloody early.
**** off the vast majority of this sector, and do so intentionally.
Only way to motivate change.
Really.

Buying into the "we can make it work" BS has cost us, and cost us dearly.
DFO recognizes that we can "make do" with the pittance they offer.
Due exactly to these very efforts.
Enough.
The split is FAR from "fair" or "equitable".
And everyone involved recognizes that.

You want a change.
MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Eat that quota as fast as you possibly can, then make the point the pittance is not sufficient.
Demand more.
Rally the troops, and take it to the media once again.
The "common man" is getting damn close to having had enough, and there are allies unexplored out there that can help make this happen.
Be Effing BOLD for a change, put up with a little pain for a longer term gain.

Or wallow in the mess you are openly at this point suggesting you are willing to maintain into your future...

Nog

 

[SerengetiGuide]

Eventually we need to start being disobedient and protesting blockades etc otherwise we will continually get run over. “The process” doesn’t work/get results

 

[ziggy]

Eventually we need to start being disobedient and protesting blockades etc otherwise we will continually get run over. “The process” doesn’t work/get results

Or if Proportional Representation comes in, form the Sport Fishing Party! Shouldn’t be hard to get 5% of BC to support you. Granted the Federal government has control of the fishery, but just think of the pressure you could bring to bear. If you could get a second person elected you could form an Official Party, get a hockey sock full of taxpayers funds, make a great wage and push your single issue platform lol.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Go for 2 & 2 halibut, no size restriction.
Get that season shut down bloody early.
**** off the vast majority of this sector, and do so intentionally.

I'm almost 100% certain all you would do is **** of business owners and most of them have already been pissed off for the last 20 years. Most casuals I talk to just say things like "just tell me when it's open i'll go, if its not oh well."

I agree with your statement but I have no idea how to leverage the common man to do anything.

 

[Jencourt]

I'm almost 100% certain all you would do is **** of business owners and most of them have already been pissed off for the last 20 years. Most casuals I talk to just say things like "just tell me when it's open i'll go, if its not oh well."

I agree with your statement but I have no idea how to leverage the common man to do anything.

I would have to disagree with this one. The fact that there has been so much effort put into designing regs that have for the most part prevented business owners from seeing substantial losses directly related to Halibut and getting pissed off is a big part of the problem. It is that very thing that has panted those in the process into a box. It is also why those that could launch an effort have had no reason to do anything other than the less than nothing that has been done for the last most of a decade.

As far as talking to fishers that are not in, or closely connected to the process< I have not met one yet that has said anything other than they do not agree with the slot,and it has screwed us not helped us.

I will give it to nog for being honest. many of us have skirted this for a long time.

 

[wildmanyeah]

As far as talking to fishers that are not in, or closely connected to the process< I have not met one yet that has said anything other than they do not agree with the slot,and it has screwed us not helped us.

Yeah they don’t agree with it but don’t care to do any thing about it.

And now the solution is to **** off guides and business so they will do something?

If common joe fishermen wants to get off their butt and force the change they could.

How many have even donate to the SRKW gonfundme where are thoes 300k salt water license holders?

 

[terrin]

I'm almost 100% certain all you would do is **** of business owners and most of them have already been pissed off for the last 20 years. Most casuals I talk to just say things like "just tell me when it's open i'll go, if its not oh well."

I agree with your statement but I have no idea how to leverage the common man to do anything.

Do it like the French do it. Take a stand. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-fuel-tax-suspension-protests-yellow-vests-1.4931375

 

[Derby]

Eventually we need to start being disobedient and protesting blockades etc otherwise we will continually get run over. “The process” doesn’t work/get results

A good year to start the machine up and go after this....there are some good people on the forum that could pull this off... happy to help u in the right direction & talk to some of the right people...
Personal i can tell u at this point we have such a shat storm on our door step right now with so many different fronts ..pretty hard for us to drop all these to chase this one at this time... but if you guys want to take this fight up...happy to point u in the right direction

 

[searun]

Do it like the French do it. Take a stand. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-fuel-tax-suspension-protests-yellow-vests-1.4931375

Go for it - please! There's a lot of talk, but so far not much action to back it up. I would seriously appreciate if someone who has the time and resources took up the cause.

Meanwhile the reality is Canada only has so much TAC that is negotiated in the IPHC process. We then part that out 15/85 - we all know the drill by now. Feb 1 will come and go...we will get our 15% TAC, and will have to make due with what we get. All pie in the sky thinking if you seriously believe DFO really cares how we use our TAC. Use it up in one quick and limitless season - I'm all for it if you can convince the majority of rec anglers participating in the SFAB process to do so. I seriously doubt you could be successful - a lot people and businesses want to fish in July and August.

If by some miracle you did convince them, everyone would eventually come to realize they got screwed by someone's dumb idea because they can't fish in July, August or the rest of the season. Recreational fishing is all about opportunity to fish, and an expectation you can get something. Proponents of the let's fish the crap out of the TAC until it is gone early to prove a point to DFO...your dreaming. They don't care. Its a set TAC, use it up and you are shut down. Full stop.

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Funny, some work colleagues from Nfld were just out here and we were talking about how political all things DFO-related is in that province (of just half a million people) and the fact DFO knows they are directly accountable to fishermen, as in right now! Any unpopular decisions, just like the France example, immediately results in protests, office occupations, dumping of fish at the legislature, etc ... and it gets results.

The “...and will have to make due with what we get” sentiment, shared above is what is so frustrating. That sentiment is exactly why DFO knows the rec sector is like a flock of trained sheep here in B.C., despite our numbers almost equaling every living man, woman and child in Nfld!

If continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insanity - our sector is either insane or satisfied with the same old result. Decision after decision after decision after decision, with many more to come, that all clearly show that DFO is past listening or taking our sector seriously and is only “consulting” to pretend they met their obligation and simply implementing what they’d planned all along. We currently have a Liberal govt for Cripes sake, and even they are giving more of the prawn and crab resource to the commie and FN sectors ... so what do you think will happen when the Conservatives get back in? We’ll be lucky if we can catch a few salmon and Ling by 2025 if things continue at the current rate!

300,000 license holders by most estimates and yet the attendance records show 4-7 people attending the avg SFAC meeting - if that doesn’t send a message that a different approach is required to harness a higher percentage of the Voice and Political Power of our “members” the B.C. Sport Fisher is going to be a relic just like the Newfie cod fishermen!

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[SerengetiGuide]

e “...and will have to make due with what we get” sentiment, shared above is what is so frustrating.

And that's from someone that is one of the most active dealing with DFO (don't get me wrong, the volunteer aspect is appreciated) on rec fisherman's behalf, only compounding DFO's belief that out west we are pushovers. I've also heard out east that they are much tougher to deal with and therefore have a lot more leverage as well as say in what occurs.

 

[wildmanyeah]

If you want to start this ball rolling you could start a face book page. Call it something like hardcore halibut fishermen. Invite all your buddies and start building a base of support.

 

[Jencourt]

I personally DO understand that the groups that have the experience, established relationships with DFO and the ability to bring people togeather have more than just there hands full at this point.

It is still frustrating, wen one looks back to the last push for tac and remembers a few things. A big part of the
Platform used to get people riled up was to remind us that we need to deal with the halibut thing or it will be prawns, crab, salmon etc next.

I do realize that harping on what was not done will not fix anything. That said we , despite some trying to nudge the groups to get on it again, did
Little to nothing and now it is just another thing compounding what is already a taxing situation.

I think we all know it takes a combined effort from the likes of those mentioned above to take something on. To suggest starting another initiative may not be a great idea. To have someone else do so now may just fragment the support needed to achieve the goals being worked on now. That said I maintain my belief If enough of the key people had gotten pissed off enough 4 years ago or so we may not have Halibut allocation on the dogpile now.

Wen it does happen I will do what I can to help. To expect average joe to do much more than help wen given direction or put it together is unrealistic .
Is there even a belief amongst those with the experience etc that a Halibut allocation initiative even has a chance of being successful? Derby? Searun?

To close, non of my thoughts on this reduces in any way the appreciation I have for the efforts being made by those who make them .
Cheers

 

[wildmanyeah]

Wen it does happen I will do what I can to help. To expect average joe to do much more than help wen given direction or put it together is unrealistic .

Why Ken did just that made one phone call and that's how the seal harvest group (PACIFIC BALANCE PINNIPED SOCIETY) got formed.

 

[Aces]

That said I maintain my belief If enough of the key people had gotten pissed off enough 4 years ago or so we may not have Halibut allocation on the dogpile now.

I'm just wondering how our key people could have done anything about the coast wide reduction in TAC?

Seemed like a no win deal with the International Halibut Commission.

Any suggestions?

 

[Jencourt]

I'm just wondering how our key people could have done anything about the coast wide reduction in TAC?

Seemed like a no win deal with the International Halibut Commission.

Any suggestions?

Completely separate issue. One I do not have any business sticking my nose in. Other than to extend my gratitude for those who willingly wade those waters.

I speak only of the allocation in this country. No matter how small or big the Canadian TAC is, the current allocation by dfo is not balanced to represent all users in a fair and equitable way.
My suggestion on allocation is to continue working on getting it to 20-25 % with a fixed number cap.

Meaning for example: 25% of tac but not to exceed a fixed number to be determined by those smarter than I. But let’s say it is 1.5m for ***** and giggles. So if tac went up to a point that 25% would exceed that # we would be cut off at the #. Providing more for other sectors while not giving us more than we need. ( no need for messy transfer systems) Or if tac falls to make 25% less than that cap#. It would be what it is 25% . That way in lower abundance times we are not expecting to get the max. To me this would make a fluctuating tac more bearable.

Pipe dream maybe . But hey!

 

[casper5280]

I say ****’em burn though the TAC as fast as possible and go after more. We only need a 1-2% increase and all this ******** goes away. And we better start soon or it will be prawns and crab next. The commercial boys are going to own it all at this pace.​