Why are there Nets on the Fraser

I can agree with that...let FN's follow the law and how it defines what can or cannot happen with their FSC fish. I just think the path forward in this complicated issue(s) is to do a lot more listening first, before we try speaking. We all have an opinion on what we see as solutions, but they might not be a good fit for purpose that matches those of FN's. So all I'm suggesting is we should start a respectful conversation and figure it out. Everyone eventually has to come to the realization that none of us are going away anytime soon, so we might be best to start talking and understanding one another first and hopefully find a way to live together better.
 
Going to be interesting to see what happens between now and July 15 in river. Sounds like a bit more fish are in the river, The pressure will start building for openings will be interesting to see if they keep them limited.
 
Going to be interesting to see what happens between now and July 15 in river. Sounds like a bit more fish are in the river, The pressure will start building for openings will be interesting to see if they keep them limited.
Any links to see the numbers of fish?
 
Obviously we have more fish in the river, early run timing usually peaks out June 21!

With how low the fraser has dropped the last week the albion should be getting more!
 
Just did up the last 10 years for the Albian test for chinook. Date range Jan 1 to June 14. Looks like numbers to far are on par with the 2015 brood. If the number keep up like this there will be a big push for more gillnet openings in river.

upload_2019-6-14_20-30-53.png
 
Monitoring/enforcement of illegal netting is certainly important. It is also a minor issue relative the decades of poor monitoring/enforcement of illegal development that that plagued BC and resulted (predictably) in the current depressed salmon situation we are in now. Logging, mining, oil & gas, real estate development and many others have skirted laws and paid minor fines for major infractions for decades and decades. The result is severely damaged watersheds in some cases, degraded estuaries, and poor water quality - all of which have contributed to the decline of salmon populations / abundance / diversity.

Does rec fishing have an impact? yup. Does FN net fishing? yup. Commercial? yup. But all of these fishing impacts are minimal compared to the massive degraded environmental factors. I will not be voting for a party that continues to stick its head in the sand about these and other environmental issues. Not happy with any of the options quite frankly but further degradation of watersheds / climate is a non-starter.

It's no wonder the fisheries are in the state they are in. You can tell as before that the rec guys are just all talk and no bite on here. To even consider voting the same government is ridiculous. This thread was started to address netting on Fraser. My take is I really don't believe we should be netting an endangered run. But I do respect first nations ability for ceremonial if they choose to do so. But in saying that I am saddened that any would exercise that right when it is known where the stocks are at.

What is most important though is DFO monitoring the illegal netting? Is there enforcement in the legitimate openings? What is the percentage of openings compared to last year? Those are the right questions to ask.
 
Monitoring/enforcement of illegal netting is certainly important. It is also a minor issue

over 1 million fraser sockeye they estimated was poached one year, 200-300 nets on the fraser sized annually and reports by DFO knowing about 15K pounds loads of fraser river fish being illegally shipped over the border. Not sure we can call that minior?

It is also a minor issue relative the decades of poor monitoring/enforcement of illegal development that that plagued BC and resulted (predictably) in the current depressed salmon situation we are in now.

But ocean conditions are still considered to be the leading factor in salmon declines correct? That is why the PSF is spending a large portion of their budget on ocean research projects right? and those are related to freshwater productivity. Coho stocks originally crashing were contributed to most of these factors but the last few years south coast coho stocks have been improving.

Logging, mining, oil & gas, real estate development and many others have skirted laws and paid minor fines for major infractions for decades and decades. The result is severely damaged watersheds in some cases, degraded estuaries, and poor water quality - all of which have contributed to the decline of salmon populations / abundance / diversity.

As SV has pointed out most of that falls in the wheelhouse of the Provincial goverment. The federal goverment does ultimately have oversight. Just FYI the provincial goverment has 4 resources officers to look after top half of vancouver island and up to prince rupert. All logging activity falls under them as well as foreshore leases etc...

Does rec fishing have an impact? yup. Does FN net fishing? yup. Commercial? .

Some of the massive original drops in salmon socks was contributed to commercial fishing tho...
 
I don't wish to dispute what conservation levels should be wrt letting fish up to spawn in their natal rivers. Nor do I wish to disagree w accurate catch reporting - and enforcement where needed.

From what I am reading tho - some posters are opposed to gill nets and seem to think that FN shouldn't be using this capture methodology at all.

I think weak stock management is actually the challenge - particularly on the Fraser. It means that area/time closures need to be closely monitored and enforced when weak stocks co-migrate w stronger stocks - so that there is less mortality on weak stocks - and that when conservation is an issue - appropriate steps are taken wrt setting catch limits.

Yes - it is easier to release weak stock bycatch with a reduced mortality using other fishing gear (e.g. beach seines & fish traps where that can work) and those capture methods should be promoted where the intent is to avoid excessive mortality of a weak stock using catch-and-release rather than capture.

If there are lowered expectations of weak stock conflicts (and in many other rivers besides the Fraser there is often less weak stocks to consider) and the intent is to capture and account for all capture mortalities - gill nets are the most productive and logistically feasible fishing method.

Easier said than done, obviously - but as others have said - a dead fish is a dead fish. It really doesn't matter how that fish was caught. What matters is getting the fish (esp from weak runs) onto the spawning grounds.
 
All good points @wildmanyeah. I don't think I know how to do the fancy reply where each quote is separated so i'll just chime in below on each one.

over 1 million fraser sockeye they estimated was poached one year, 200-300 nets on the fraser sized annually and reports by DFO knowing about 15K pounds loads of fraser river fish being illegally shipped over the border. Not sure we can call that minior? Agree 100% that much better monitoring and enforcement is needed for nets in the fraser. When and where there are violations there should be swift and serious penalties. 'Poach' is an interesting term as some on this forum seem to equate it with any sort of FN fishery so as long as we are distinguishing between authorized and un-authorized fishing I think we tend to agree that we need to do better.



But ocean conditions are still considered to be the leading factor in salmon declines correct? That is why the PSF is spending a large portion of their budget on ocean research projects right? and those are related to freshwater productivity. Coho stocks originally crashing were contributed to most of these factors but the last few years south coast coho stocks have been improving. As with anything in an eco-system it's all connected and never easy to figure out. The PSF has spent lots of time/money recently on nearshore (and the recent offshore expedition) to learn more about marine survival of juvenile salmon. To date there is no smoking gun but poor early survival is still THE main issue being tackled with the SSMSP. Seal predation, loss of estuarine habitats, and poor condition of out migrating fry are some of the major findings to date. One interesting thing to consider is that all 7 of the early-run fraser chinook stocks listed as 'endangered' under COSEWIC are stream type chinook (they spend a full year in fresh water). Perhaps there is a connection between poor in-river conditions and the survival rates of these stream-type chinook???



As SV has pointed out most of that falls in the wheelhouse of the Provincial government. The federal government does ultimately have oversight. Just FYI the provincial goverment has 4 resources officers to look after top half of vancouver island and up to prince rupert. All logging activity falls under them as well as foreshore leases etc... - lots of blame to go around on both the provincial and federal level of governments. My main beef here is that for too long industry has written the rules as well as the enforcement so habitat degradation and the corresponding small fines have been a small cost of doing business with a large impact on our fish stocks.



Some of the massive original drops in salmon socks was contributed to commercial fishing tho...
Yes! Recreational guys surely have done our share of damage on certain stocks as well. A couple of quick examples that come to mind are 1) CR tyee pool and surrounding are fishery. Those big fish have been targeted for a long, long time and now there are a fraction of the big sized chinook in CR. and 2) the Vancouver Sun derby coincided with the Squamish chinook run that used to be quite produtive and is now abysmal. Gotta think 1000 boats out fishing for mostly Squamish chinook for decades could well have an impact. Just a couple potential observations but I think us fishing guys need to take some ownership for the impacts we have all had on the fishery. We look like whiny little ******* when all we do is finger point, IMO.
 
Blaming Fecundity issues on sports fishing is like blaming it on large mesh gill nets that let sockeye and small chinook though but only catch the large chinook.

From a book written in 1919. A few years prior the seine fishery almost completely wiped out CR chinook.

Campbell River is the headquarters for the big tyee salmon and ranks with Cowichan River as world famous fishing water. A few years ago during the month of August you would find scores of fishermen there from all parts of the globe, having come especially to land some of the monster salmon that yearly come to the river to spawn. In those days it was not considered anything much to land two or three fish between forty and fifty pounds with several cohoes in addition before breakfast. Unless a fish was sixty pounds or over, it attracted very little attention. Apart from the pleasure of fishing it was well worth any body's while to go there for a few days and meet men from all over the world and just to watch the fishing whenever there was a favourable tide. You might, perhaps, see as many as sixty boats all fishing at the mouth of the river, with a few Indians in canoes in addition. There would be men, women, and often children, with every conceivable form of tackle, some with hand lines only, others with huge eighteen foot salmon fly rods and many Americans with six-foot tarpon rods, with wonderful multiplying reels. Yon would likely see half a dozen boats all playing "tyees" at the same time, some of them in an agony of fear that some other boat would foul them and shrieking wild, and often strong warnings to boats in their vicinity. There would be smashed tackle and broken rods and narrow escapes from falling overboard and occasionally the sight of a novice man fully playing what he believed to be a record salmon, but in reality the bottom. Then, later in the evening when fishing was over and the inner man refreshed with meat and drink (prohibition was not even thought of in those days) there would be a gathering and events of the day discussed, with the usual stories of record fish lost, etc. Those were great days: they brought the fisherman much pleasure and the Province much profit.' .Alas! the glory of them has departed; commercial fishermen with their traps and seines have unwisely been allowed to ruin the most famous salmon water ever known.
 
Back
Top