20 Unhealthiest Proteins

[shuswap]

That url is no longer active, so if you have another source I would be happy to look at the evidence that small concentrations in salmon are not harmful. My understanding is that as long as you keep your consumption down then the accumulation over time should be low. How low is safe is not clear to me so if you have a link I would be interested in reading it.

Back from long weekend. My apologies I just assumed it was a dot com.

https://salmonfarmscience.wordpress.com/library/

Now I understand this will get flamed as propaganda by some folks - I get it. I don't have the time to post links on this particular topic, but do know that the individuals from this site have posted reports on it. However, I will say that unlike Morton's blog, the site I posted does should a variety of reports - not just what is favourable to their point of view. So you will find the Hites paper in their references.

If you really want to get down to it there are many things that if consumed in high quantities can be potentially harmful. However, many would have to be consumed in such high quantities in such a short period of time that the person will likely vomit before being severely impacted. If the concentrations of contaminates in farmed fish which are extremely low to begin with are still too high for some folks they can cut off more of the fat. But in my opinion, there are far greater risks to public health and for me this doesn't pop up on the radar.

Sugar is more of a threat. Saturated fats are more of a threat. Processed foods are convenient and not bad sometimes, but not all the time. Eating fruits and vegetables is important. My kids love fruit juice, but they don't get any until they eat their fruit and they only get juice once a day - not a Frank-the-tank funnel system from the top of their heads with Sunny Delight. Making sure that fish is on the dinner plate one or twice a week (Just so you know I primarily fish for trout and get my kids to catch and eat trout. I don't get much from the store, but I don't knock those that do). This is what guides me and my dietary choices for my kids, but to each their own.

I understand that for some folks consuming farm salmon is just totally unacceptable because they feel it's unhealthy, but when a website like the one posted at the beginning starts criticizing farm salmon because of tapeworms (as if wild salmon have none) I just have to laugh. Here is a common parasite found in wild Pacific salmon that many salmon anglers may have seen.

https://fishpathogens.net/pathogen/henneguya-salminicola

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks for taking the time/effort to respond, Shuswap.

I do agree with your comments about parasites - except to say by shifting the conversation instead to comparing parasite loads (and sugar) while debating the Hites study - it is misleading and misdirecting the conversation regarding bioaccumulation of cancerous agents such as PCBs & PBDEs. These are very different risks/effects.

If the BCSFA truly wished to scientifically debate the Hites study - they could easily have instead submitted a letter to the original editor/Journal about the article to debate and critique the science like Hardy did (http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es0484045). It's done all the time in the science journals.

IF you have legitimate scientific critiques on the paper in question you can submit a letter to the original editor about the article, and they publish these. The original authors can then respond back with explanations, and this process can go on for some time with back-n-forth and is quite enlightening. There were a series of letters by Stucci, and Jones over some of Krkosek's work (for example) and it was very informative to read the back and forths.

I can only assume that the BCSFA critiques were not supported and they would rather snipe from their web site.

Here's more on Hite's credentials and work: https://spea.indiana.edu/faculty-research/directory/profiles/faculty/full-time/hites-ronald.html

Polychlorinated Biphenyls in Salmon and Salmon Feed: Global Differences and Bioaccumulation, Environmental Science and Technology, 39(19), 7389-7395 (2005); with Carlson, D.L.

Response to Comment on "Global Assessment of Polybrominated Diphenyl Ethers in Farmed and Wild Salmon, Environmental Science and Technology,39(1), 379-380 (2005); with Jeffery A. Foran, Steven J. Schwager, Barbara A. Knuth, M. Coreen Hamilton, and David O. Carpenter

Global Assessment of Organic Contaminants in Farmed Salmon, Science,303(5655), 226-229 (2004); with J. A. Foran, D. O. Carpenter, M. C. Hamilton, B. A. Knuth, S. J. Schwager

Farmed salmon contains high levels of organochlorine carcinogens: Implications for public health, Neurotoxicology, 25(4), 691-2 (2004); with Jeffery A. Foran, Steven J. Schwager, Barbara A. Knuth, M. Coreen Hamilton, and David O. Carpenter

A Survey of Metals in Tissues of Farmed Atlantic and Wild Pacific Salmon,Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry, 23(9), 2108-2110 (2004); with J. Foran, D. O. Carpenter, M. C. Hamilton, A. Mathews-Amos, S. J. Schwager

 

[Reel Time]

It is interesting that all the commercial fish caught and sold to the public are NOT TESTED?

The Government tests cattle, chickens, pigs, etc. But not wild fish?

Wonder why?

Ever wonder what you are really eating?

Ever wonder why seals that were tested are so toxic they cannot be put into dumps but must be burnt?
Wonder what they were eating?

Killer Whales also are toxic, wonder why?

Wild salmon tend to live 2-4 years in the ocean. They will pick up some toxins, agreed. Yet they are not concentrated in **** pens and fed a food culture. I dont eat Killer whale, and I wont eat farmed salmon. Therefore my balls dont glow green, unless theyre on my downrigger.

 

[bones]

Then.... Dont eat it, simple. Best of all you have that choice. Getting rid of fish farms on this coast will be the nail in the wild salmons coffin. Without them commercial fishing will increase to fill the hole and..... Gone.
I bet back in the old days some cowboy would shoot a cow and bring it back camp and everyone would stick there nose up!!! Is that elk? Hhhmmm, ill just eat my saltines, lol

 

[agentaqua]

Wild salmon tend to live 2-4 years in the ocean. They will pick up some toxins, agreed. Yet they are not concentrated in **** pens and fed a food culture. I dont eat Killer whale, and I wont eat farmed salmon. Therefore my balls dont glow green, unless theyre on my downrigger.

That AND:
Polychlorinated Biphenyls in Salmon and Salmon Feed:  Global Differences and Bioaccumulation
Daniel L. Carlson andRonald A. Hites*
School of Public and Environmental Affairs, Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana 47405
Environ. Sci. Technol., 2005, 39 (19), pp 7389–7395
DOI: 10.1021/es048023r
Publication Date (Web): August 31, 2005
Copyright © 2005 American Chemical Society
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es048023r

"Three major PCB patterns were observed, in most wild fish (except British Columbia and Oregon chinook), in farmed fish from the Atlantic, and in most farmed fish from the Pacific. The PCB congener profiles of farmed salmon often closely corresponded to a sample of commercial feed purchased in the same region, indicating that the feed is likely to be the major source of PCBs for farmed salmon."

 

[Whole in the Water]

Then.... Dont eat it, simple. Best of all you have that choice. Getting rid of fish farms on this coast will be the nail in the wild salmons coffin. Without them commercial fishing will increase to fill the hole and..... Gone.
I bet back in the old days some cowboy would shoot a cow and bring it back camp and everyone would stick there nose up!!! Is that elk? Hhhmmm, ill just eat my saltines, lol

Getting rid of fish farms will be a nail in the wild salmon's coffin if they remain in the water. They need to be put on the land where their harmful environmental impacts can be better managed.

 

[Birdsnest]

Just a friendly reminder that the land based salmon farm Nagmis has run out of funding and is currently seeking new investors/funding. I think rainbow trout is the ideal land based fat fish however since it is a fat fish it could easily run into the same perceived issues with carcinogens as being discussed here.

 

[agentaqua]

Just a friendly reminder that the land based salmon farm Nagmis has run out of funding and is currently seeking new investors/funding. I think rainbow trout is the ideal land based fat fish however since it is a fat fish it could easily run into the same perceived issues with carcinogens as being discussed here.

I really hope the Namgis operation can survive. I also think the "perception" you reference is the sale-ability/profit margins verses the PCB/PBDE content...

 

[Dave]

I also hope the Namgis can make it work but that doesn't seem likely, without huge government or private corporation bailouts.
The thing is, all land based salmon/trout farms, and Federal and Provincial hatcheries, are fed basically the same diet as net pen salmon.

 

[GLG]

I also hope the Namgis can make it work but that doesn't seem likely, without huge government or private corporation bailouts.
The thing is, all land based salmon/trout farms, and Federal and Provincial hatcheries, are fed basically the same diet as net pen salmon.

Thanks Dave for your input. I too would like to see Namgis turn the corner and continue with their farm. There are different feeds that can be used that hold promise with companies like Enterra Feed Corporation here in BC. (go to the 10 minute mark)

 

[Birdsnest]

I also hope the Namgis can make it work but that doesn't seem likely, without huge government or private corporation bailouts.
The thing is, all land based salmon/trout farms, and Federal and Provincial hatcheries, are fed basically the same diet as net pen salmon.

Also the Sites study is from 2004. Feed sourcing for salmon feed is always on the change as GLG graciously suggested in the video. I suspect that some there are still going to maintain a firm grip on their beliefs from the Hites study despite it's age. So I have to ask you fella's how is farm salmon going to be any better in closed containment in terms of pcb's? lol I know your answer already, I'm just playing along.

 

[agentaqua]

Your question raises another, BN - how does the PCBs get into the feed?

 

[Birdsnest]

Your question raises another, BN - how does the PCBs get into the feed?

I suspect it is no different than any other fat fish on the planet. How does a tuna get it? How does black cod get it? They all have it yet the focus here is farm salmon which isn't really a proper representation of the reality of fat fish pcP content in our oceans. I know that some individuals on this forum want this topic to be ALL about farm salmon only but the reality is the situation exists in the wild as well.

Anyway, you guys carry on. We've had this discussion a few times over the years as you fail to admit.

 

[agentaqua]

I suspect it is no different than any other fat fish on the planet. ...

Apparently NOT - when one looks at the congener profiles (Carlson and Hites 2005, above)....

 

[agentaqua]

‘The Fish on My Plate’ — A Global Fish Tale
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/07/08/the-fish-on-my-plate-documentary.aspx