Why release big fish anyway?

Last Chance

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Staff member
I applaud conservation and letting big fish go, but here are some points I'd like to make:

Currently, the gillnet fishery accounts for over %20 of the fish caught in the Fraser, we account for %5, this is from DFO's stats from the meeting last fall. And the gillnet fishery numbers are only from those who co-operate, I'm willing to bet it's a lot higher, north of %35. With a margin of error of %5. So assuming we left every single fish in the water, we would account for a %25 increase in fish reaching the river, not counting hatchery fish which are roughly %30 of what I encounter in the summer. What chance would they have anyway going up against the guantlet of gillnets? I don't have the commercial catch numbers handy, but they ain't chucking 35's back either.

Halibut - You can bet that a longliner would not let that 150lb fish go. They get %88 of the fish, we get %12. So that fish has an %88 chance of getting caught and killed anyway when you release it.

Sport fishermen are a tiny fraction of interceptors. What we do is a drop in the bucket. Yes, every bit helps, but only if the biggest players are playing will letting big fish go have any impact at all.
 
Couldn't agree more.
All the supposed "wild" fish released between March and mid June then have to run the gauntlet
past all the nets and spears.
I wonder how many actually get to spawn ?
I'm thinking our impact as sporties is minimal.
 
I totally agree and if I had it my way gill netting would be banned. It's not selective enough. Commercial trolling only would be the least harmful to the stocks imo.

But we have what we have and look at it this way. If you release a big fish it has SOME chance of making it up the river and spawning. If you keep it, it has ZERO chance.

I will release anything over 25lbs unless I'm in a derby. Plenty of meat on a 12-20 lbs spring for my family. But I don't blame anyone that does keep the big ones. As you said, sport fishing is not the problem.
 
When fishing WCVI, if the fishing is hot, we bonk our limits of anything over 15 lbs or so, then release a few more while experimenting with untested lures and speeds for springs and bucktails for coho. Then we go try to find a halibut or ling. If the first springs in the boat aren't overly huge, that's the luck of the draw. I love to eat the belly on a 30lber, but the shoulder meat isn't my favourite. Our tactics are not really conservation related, but more about the enjoyment of fighting lots of fish after long and costly trips to get there.
 
Food for thought for sure LastChance,
While we're on the subject of Consrvation maybe we could switch some of the bigger derbies that coincide with the early Fraser run to a catch & release derby...
Simular to say the derby in Langara...If you look at the figures from the 2011 JDF derby i'm not sure if it's a trend but the overall # of salmon caught appears to be much lower than past derbies.
As you mentioned all this is a mute point if the commies & other sectors on the river choose to load the deck/cards in their favor.
Myself I fish for enjoyment & the fish are a bonus ,wether or not i choose to retain/release them is a privilege. I like to eat my salmon fresh & some i freeze for the smoker. Like holmes I spread the salmon around for others to enjoy ...sammy
 
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Yeah I see what you mean. I guess I'm thinking mostly of the fraser runs where some of the stocks up the river are endangered while others are doing very well. When they block off the river with gill nets you run the chance of wiping out the smaller runs while targeting the healthy runs. Also there is the situation when mixed stocks like coho are running at the same time as late sockeye.

I watched the commercial trollers out there last year off the sandheads pulling in sockeye hand over fist. They could certainly provide a large portion of the market for sockeye while still being able to release bycatch without much injury. A salmon that`s spent 6 hours in a gillnet is more likely to die on release than one that was hooked and released.
 
All commercial salmon fishing should be by troller.
Well said trendsetter!
 
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Yeah for sure. And I think it would be more expensive in the short term for everyone if they made a switch to troll only. But as the stocks improved and more and more fish survived to be in the waters around BC it would take less and less time for trollers to meet their quota. Also, if it were easier to catch salmon locally as sport wouldn't that be a boom for the local economy? more guide trips, more sport fishing boats, more tackle sales, engine repairs, moorage fees, license purchases, ice sales, beer sales ;) etc.


It's probably just a pipe dream though. The commercial boats make far too much money as it is. Politicians tend to think short term and a short term drop in revenue for the government is not likely to be allowed. The best we can hope for is that DFO can manage the stocks / openings well enough to keep the fish available in their current state or better.
 
Trollers in their day were notorious for shaking off undersized fish with no regard to their survival. Time was money, the faster they shook them off the faster they could pull the rest of the gear. Big single barbed hooks also proved fatal for many juvenile fish before being roughly handled. I think the very best (commercial) method were the old Sooke fish traps.
 
Trollers in their day were notorious for shaking off undersized fish with no regard to their survival. Time was money, the faster they shook them off the faster they could pull the rest of the gear. Big single barbed hooks also proved fatal for many juvenile fish before being roughly handled. I think the very best (commercial) method were the old Sooke fish traps.
Exactly. Trolling while providing the highest quality catch if processed right away, it also is an excessively inefficient way to harvest and is not really 100% selective. The most efficient manner in which to selectively harvest is fish traps at the mouths of rivers, where you are guaranteed to be selectively catching fish from taht system and can sort and release by species depending on harvest allocations. DFO observers would be stationed at the correct wiers or groups of wiers, noone would be using lots and lots of fuel to harvest these fish (except us sporties) and processing plants could be located at the rivers with the largest allocations. This is the original method of harvest for most natives at most river mouths and it still makes the most sense.

For Sport caught fish its a different scenario. The sport is what we are all about and as such the chase, the hunt, the fight and then the harvest is the reason we pay huge aounts of money chasing these fish all over the ocean. In this case, the inefficiency of the catch and the cost of chasing these fish makes each sport caught fish worth 10 to 20 times the value of each commie caught fish, and as such the economic return and in particular the return to small coastal communities justifies the expansion of sport fishing and the reduction of commie fishing that are not terminal fisheries.

Both fisheries can co-exist, but we need to look at the economic contribution of each on its own merit, and not on how many EI hours are 'created' .

My .02 FWIW
 
the more i read the more i see how misinformed this sector is on anything commercial related.

1) ei for fishermen is not based on hours but on revenue. hrs is only applied to shore based jobs
2) the most efficient and selective fishery today is the seine fishery. It is nothing more than a moveable trap. the fish are brailed into sorting boxes, sorted and if there happens to be a spring or coho in the brailer it is put in a revival box until it is ready to be released. Trolling drags the fish around till the fisher decides to pull it in and if released is so tired you may as well cut it up and hand feed it to the seals. gillnetting is the worst of the group, hang the fish by the head until you decide to pick up the gear, who knows how many fall out dead, there is no selection and very limited chance of survivial.
3) as for halibut, commercial guys are paid less for any fish over 80 lbs. the best revenue if you can find them is 40-60. belive it or not many larger fish are released because A) they are the largest producer of eggs and B) they are less valuable.

lastly if it is a sport fishery then what is the bs about largest fish wins the prize. so what you sit there holding a 20 till a 40 comes along and throw the 20 back dead. the sportsfishery in all its self proclaimed glory is the worst managed fishery on this coast.
 
Again off based fisher 69 you MAY think people throw back a 20 lb but your wrong so you want to talk derby ok lets. and ill use the jdf one for you as it is most recent.....120 fish over a weekend with close to 700 people fishing there is no way any one threw back a dead 20 lber.yes it is for the biggest fish so what!!!!!and to date that derby alone has given over $250.000 to salmon enhancement for sport fisherman and you a commie to catch more fish you tell me how much money commies put back into it for the ones taken the most you guys dont put any effort or money back in so you and every one knows you dont have a leg to stand on.....

And how many commie 40,50,60 lb salmon get realeased ahhhh NONE at least some sportfisherman do so dont throw stones from your glass house....
I personally have realeased many up to and over 30 lbs ..including last week


Wolf
 
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Weird mentality going here. the "if i don't kill it somebody else will" is not the way to look at it. Yes i have to admit before getting in to bigger fish when i was younger, if it swam it died but over the years i realized for one bigger fish were not the table fair i was looking for preferring the smaller ones, I wasn't looking to impress anyone with weight numbers, and the thought of a hawg getting back to the home stream and having a chance was better than giving it the bonk. I have had the opportunity of putting two over fifty back in the Charlottes and were probably the highlights of my career back then. the catch and realize measurement system is with in 2 pounds so you get and accurate weight quick pick and then it has at least a chance. If you bonk all the big ones they will not create more of the same, plain and simple.
 
the more i read the more i see how misinformed this sector is on anything commercial related.
well fisher, lets look at this argument a little close

1) ei for fishermen is not based on hours but on revenue. hrs is only applied to shore based jobs.
Correct, and shore based jobs are 50% (or more) of the total economic contribution from the commie sector. If you compare hours of EI between the two sectors, I would imagine the total drain on the economy is a wash. Guides employed by lodges being roughly equal to shore workers employed by the large corps. Where you need to be looking (in order to oppose or support my argument) is the value of each fish. It has been proven by many economists with much more skill than I will ever have that a sport caught fish has an economic contribution of 10 to 20 times that of a commercially caught fish

2) the most efficient and selective fishery today is the seine fishery. It is nothing more than a moveable trap. the fish are brailed into sorting boxes, sorted and if there happens to be a spring or coho in the brailer it is put in a revival box until it is ready to be released.
complete and utter crap. Please let me know where the efficiency is in taking a 60 ton trap and moving all over the coast versus a set wier that passively re-directs salmon to a waiting location for individual sorting and capture or release. Not to mention that well over 50% of the sorted fish die prior to or shortly after release from a revival box. Scale and slime loss in a brailing bucket is horrific. Any biologist worth half his salt will take one look at those fish in a revival bin and pronounce them DOA. In addition, seine fisheries have proven many times over that they are the least selective fisheries and commonly intercept mixed races of fish. In essence wiping out smaller river stocks while chasing the large schools of larger rivers. Don't believe me? Have a close look at the status of every small river on the ECVI and their decimated populations of nearly every species they support.

and Trolling drags the fish around till the fisher decides to pull it in and if released is so tired you may as well cut it up and hand feed it to the seals.
more bs. With regards to fish quality, troll caught has ALWAYS had a higher per pound value and sells for more at wholesale level. I wonder why that is. Perhaps its the quality of the fish and the fact that they haven't been crushed in a massive seine of tons of fish and hauled on board and dropped into a hold. While seiners may small brail and sort when an observer is on board, they commonly haul everything on board and dump it if and when they can, when an observer is not on board.

gillnetting is the worst of the group, hang the fish by the head until you decide to pick up the gear, who knows how many fall out dead, there is no selection and very limited chance of survivial.
No argument here. Gill netting should be banned. But it is about as selective as seining. While it does not discriminate with regards to species, at least it targets terminal fisheries and not mixed races. Yes that can mean mixed races from tributaries, but at least it eliminates the over harvest of small systems that empty direct into the Pacific.

3) as for halibut, commercial guys are paid less for any fish over 80 lbs. the best revenue if you can find them is 40-60. belive it or not many larger fish are released because A) they are the largest producer of eggs and B) they are less valuable.
While it is true that larger fish yield a lower /lb value, I would love to see the stats of how many large egg producing female halibut are released by the commies. To even suggest that they throw back large fish is laughable.

lastly if it is a sport fishery then what is the bs about largest fish wins the prize. so what you sit there holding a 20 till a 40 comes along and throw the 20 back dead. the sportsfishery in all its self proclaimed glory is the worst managed fishery on this coast.
More crapola. High grading is simply NOT a factor. Never has been and never will be. This is a miniscule % of sport fishing (salt or fresh). I defy you to find ANY evidence of this EVER being a concern to DFO, guides, or ANYBODY. If you want to challenge the sport in the sport fishery, you would have been better off to challenge the species or wild poaching and over limit harvest, not the high grading. But even then a poached wild fish is still worth 10 - 20 times more than the same wild fish when it is commie caught in a non-selective manner. I'll take that economic value of a sport caught poached dead wild fish any day over the same economic value of the same dead wild commercially caught non-selective, non-terminal, crushed, low quality, low value fish.
 
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Weird mentality going here. the "if i don't kill it somebody else will" is not the way to look at it. Yes i have to admit before getting in to bigger fish when i was younger, if it swam it died but over the years i realized for one bigger fish were not the table fair i was looking for preferring the smaller ones, I wasn't looking to impress anyone with weight numbers, and the thought of a hawg getting back to the home stream and having a chance was better than giving it the bonk. I have had the opportunity of putting two over fifty back in the Charlottes and were probably the highlights of my career back then. the catch and realize measurement system is with in 2 pounds so you get and accurate weight quick pick and then it has at least a chance. If you bonk all the big ones they will not create more of the same, plain and simple.

I also was a bit suprised at the "if i dont take it someone else will" mentality. It makes me think of the saying "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.."


Ill be honest in that i rarely practice C&R. For some reason it seems out of place in fishing salmon in the chuck. Not saying it is out of place but its definately not yet a common practice. When people fish salmon in the chuck i think C&R does not even cross the minds of most yet fishing wild steelies the idea of anything but C&R rarely cross peoples minds. I think it comes down to the fisheries mentality which can and likely will change in the future.


ps Finaddict great response.
 
hey i never claimed to know how ei works for fishing, i knew it was different for fishing, so im glad to have someone explain it, so can u explain it a little more fisher?....holmes*

Brings back a few memories /not mine lol... UI ski/fishing team!

UI/EI aka.stamp fishery is a commercial term alocated to the "Dog fishery" (chum salmon) coined by sviwc/etc. com. fisherman to top up their ui/pokey stamps for said program...most likely(for some) extra$$$ for vacation in P.I/Thailand.

*common saying" I'm off to Bummerfield(Bamfield) to take part in the stamp fishery"
...sammy
 
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Fisher69, I fully understand the commercial fishery and agree seiners can be very selective if all the skippers are ethical and follow the rules. It is harder to cheat now than it used to be...and back in the day many were for lack of a better word...scum. One unethical seine operator has the power in his hands to destroy an entire salmon population. That is hard to get past for me. My motto is when fish go up against any net...fish loose. The worlds fish populations aren't in decline because of sport fishing....ah that would be commercial!!!! Don't try and weave around that fact...you can't change the truth.
 
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