What can WE do to help save the salmon?

[lorneparker1]

Thanks for posting Alex!

I agree with what Chris is saying. Maybe put something together mid island and speak to us in a big room full of sport fishers.. I would help fund the room, and the organization of the whole thing.

 

[Foxsea]

Hello,

thank you Lorne for alerting me to this conversation. Government is covering this up and I don't have means to get the information out there. So was very glad to see this forum. what is the best way to communicate with you guys? I have a blog alexandramorton.typepad.com

Dr. Morton: Thanks very much for taking the time to share your experiences and insights on this forum. As Chris mentioned, an in-person conversation would be a great way to start. I'm personally wondering if, in your opinion, there is a viable possibility for several thousand conservation-focused sport-fishers to initiate a class action naming DFO?

DFO Mission and their mandate:
Through sound science, forward-looking policy, and operational and service excellence, DFO employees work collaboratively toward the following strategic outcomes of:
•Economically Prosperous Maritime Sectors and Fisheries;
•Sustainable Aquatic Ecosystems
•Study, conservation and protection aquatic ecosystems.
•Conducting (open, public and peer-reviewed) scientific research and related activities, which are vital to the understanding and sustainable management of Canada’s oceans and aquatic resources.
•Collaboration to manage the commercial, recreational and Aboriginal fisheries.
•Creating the conditions to support a vibrant and sustainable aquaculture industry.
•Development and promotion of the wise use of technology to ensure the long-term health of Canada’s waters.

Our basis of claim: That DFO has seriously damaged the recreational fishery through action and negligence. That DFO has neglected adequate study, conservation and protection of the wild fishery. That DFO has supported and participated in the destruction of a valuable, viable and sustainable fishery. That DFO has repudiated their mandate to create (and sustain) the conditions necessary to support a vibrant industry.

 

[Foxsea]

Thanks for posting Alex!

I agree with what Chris is saying. Maybe put something together mid island and speak to us in a big room full of sport fishers.. I would help fund the room, and the organization of the whole thing.

X2 - I will also help in funding: maybe the travel expenses for Dr. Morton? - Perhaps we pass the hat at the door and sign up members for PCWSS. I'd also be delighted to help in any other way needed.

 

[reelfast]

pardon me for jumping in again but i do view this as a cross border issue. so let me note the points that jump out at me from reading all that has been posted:

- net pen raised atlantic salmon are very likely infected with ISVa
- a strong possibility exists that out bound salmon smolt have been infected never to be seen again
- controlling sea lice is failing and the use of SLICE, a pesticide not approved for human consumption in the USA, has not resolved this issue
- the harper government is intent on silencing anyone with research information
- DFO has two competing agenda and the big bucks one is always going to win
- the rewritting of your environmental laws is a frontal assault designed to promote and easy way to build a pipeline
- the introduction of petrochina now makes this a much larger, international, problem
- i agree this is a coordinated chess game which is focused on Obama's positions to date
- canadian unions are now involved because of the deaths in Alberta

folks this has escallated beyond belief, well not really as this is all about big bucks. no one person or group is going to have the means of confronting all of this. you are taking on very large business ventures, just as with net pens. that means a cooalition of interested parties needs to be formed pretty damned fast. past feelings about canadian conservation groups need to be put aside, you need their fire power. you also need to wrap your arms around the unions now pushing for court action. quick discussions with these groups needs to happen and one of them needs to grab the reigns. the rec angler community needs to stop with personal solutions and get on board before you get steam rolled.

all the best, this is becoming much more dangerous with every passing day.

 

[Gunsmith]

One point that should not be overlooked is the change in the review process will also facilitate the turning of lakes into tailings ponds for new mines that are looking for cheap ways to dump tailings.
This definitely a cross border issue, we lose fish or environment you lose a place to fish too.

pardon me for jumping in again but i do view this as a cross border issue. so let me note the points that jump out at me from reading all that has been posted:

- net pen raised atlantic salmon are very likely infected with ISVa
- a strong possibility exists that out bound salmon smolt have been infected never to be seen again
- controlling sea lice is failing and the use of SLICE, a pesticide not approved for human consumption in the USA, has not resolved this issue
- the harper government is intent on silencing anyone with research information
- DFO has two competing agenda and the big bucks one is always going to win
- the rewritting of your environmental laws is a frontal assault designed to promote and easy way to build a pipeline
- the introduction of petrochina now makes this a much larger, international, problem
- i agree this is a coordinated chess game which is focused on Obama's positions to date
- canadian unions are now involved because of the deaths in Alberta

folks this has escallated beyond belief, well not really as this is all about big bucks. no one person or group is going to have the means of confronting all of this. you are taking on very large business ventures, just as with net pens. that means a cooalition of interested parties needs to be formed pretty damned fast. past feelings about canadian conservation groups need to be put aside, you need their fire power. you also need to wrap your arms around the unions now pushing for court action. quick discussions with these groups needs to happen and one of them needs to grab the reigns. the rec angler community needs to stop with personal solutions and get on board before you get steam rolled.

all the best, this is becoming much more dangerous with every passing day.

 

[alexandramorton]

I would really like the opportunity to speak to/with a group of you and southern Vancouver Island is easy for me.

 

[alexandramorton]

Dr. Morton: Thanks very much for taking the time to share your experiences and insights on this forum. As Chris mentioned, an in-person conversation would be a great way to start. I'm personally wondering if, in your opinion, there is a viable possibility for several thousand conservation-focused sport-fishers to initiate a class action naming DFO?

DFO Mission and their mandate:
Through sound science, forward-looking policy, and operational and service excellence, DFO employees work collaboratively toward the following strategic outcomes of:
•Economically Prosperous Maritime Sectors and Fisheries;
•Sustainable Aquatic Ecosystems
•Study, conservation and protection aquatic ecosystems.
•Conducting (open, public and peer-reviewed) scientific research and related activities, which are vital to the understanding and sustainable management of Canada’s oceans and aquatic resources.
•Collaboration to manage the commercial, recreational and Aboriginal fisheries.
•Creating the conditions to support a vibrant and sustainable aquaculture industry.
•Development and promotion of the wise use of technology to ensure the long-term health of Canada’s waters.

Our basis of claim: That DFO has seriously damaged the recreational fishery through action and negligence. That DFO has neglected adequate study, conservation and protection of the wild fishery. That DFO has supported and participated in the destruction of a valuable, viable and sustainable fishery. That DFO has repudiated their mandate to create (and sustain) the conditions necessary to support a vibrant industry.[I know the right people for you to speak about this with. It is not easy however. You have to prove loss and you have to prove it came from the salmon farms. A good start would be to sample chinook in areas important to you where there are salmon farms, like Clayoquot. Possible Discovery Islands, though so many fish pass through there I don't know how possible it would be to figure out. still trying to figure out the quotes here - so apologizing in advance if this post ends up in some random place.

 

[alexandramorton]

Ok having trouble figuring out how to post - tried the quotes and clearly that didn't work. A lot of questions here. First regarding a law suit that is going to be difficult, but a good start would be to take some samples of chinook in areas of high concern, like Clayoquot or Discovery Islands. YOu will have to prove loss of salmon you would have caught from a specific salmon farm. However, it is not impossible with this ISA virus, which mutates and can be tracked.

Giving a talk on the mid-Island would be really easy for me and I think it would be productive for us to talk.

As for what to do. I think we have to see DFO as irrelevant. They are not protecting wild salmon. As a cohen participant I read what they have been saying about salmon farms in their emails to each other and I get the impression that even though some clearly do want to do the right thing, there is no mechanism in DFO to protect wild salmon from international trade laws. I thought hard about what it would take to fix DFO and I don't think it is worth the effort. There are too many fox holes, and trenches with people in them defending territory. The only ones thinking clearly are some of the ones getting wet in the rivers. Management is way out of line, taking risks on our behalf for example importing Atlantic eggs from hatcheries that do not meet the regulations. I think we need to go to DFO for permits, etc., but do not go to them for a plan.
One of the really amazing new scientific tools is called genomic profiling. DFO has probably the most capable person in the world that uses this method to examine salmon. She reads the switches that turn on and off in cells in response to everything. Then she looks at the pattern and figures out if they are feeding well, have the flu, had sea lice, have experienced an algae bloom during their lives, is in water too warm etc. DFO tasked her to figure out why up to 90% of Fraser sockeye are dying in the river before spawning. No one could figure it out because the fish were dying of everything. When Miller used genomic profiling she could see they had a virus that was weakening their immune system and other things. When she looked for a match she found Salmon Leukemia - raging in salmon feedlots since 1992. At that point DFO began preventing her from talking.
In any case, using genomic profiling, we could test wild salmon from their spawning grounds out to sea at intervals and find out EXACTLY where things go badly for each run. It is much much more powerful than looking for disease because it picks up the signals in the fish long before they show symptoms.
Using this following the fish as they leave and return we could quickly figure out precisely what needs to change, instead of flailing around in the dark. I think we need to pull together people already working to protect wild salmon coastwise together into the Department of Wild Salmon. Meet every year, have an open online discussion so that everyone could track what is going wrong and what is going right. I get so many people contacting me now with every kind of report; salmon are small, big, full of worms, yellow etc.... if we pulled together we could begin to see the patterns. What places are making fish and what areas are killing them. That would allow us figure to out what to do for them. My feeling is that the fish are perfect, all that we need to do is strategically get out of their way. Too often People do the feel good thing, that means nothing to the fish.
I can see very clearly how this would work, just like I really see the pattern between wild salmon declines and salmon feedlots. The feedlots just have to go - they break the natural laws that balance pathogens and health. As long as they use nets that allow viruses move in, multiply, mutate and pour back out, wild salmon are faced with an incredible handicap they just aren't designed to survive.

The only people who can get the farm salmon away from the wild salmon is the province of BC. I don't think most MLAs even know they are the landlords of this industry. While DFO regulates number of fish, which drugs etc, its the province that gives them their licences of occupation. We learned at Cohen that although small streams were slightly protected with a buffer zone, the major migration routes were never even considered. This has to change.
I feel like I have rambled on too long here.

 

[Mighty Sylvan]

I caught one that had a ugly white tumor about the size of a tennis ball. I cut it out but could not bring myself to eat that fish. After spending time browsing the sacred salmon site I'm pretty sure it was a wild salmon living near a feedlot. I'm going to start taking pictures of the salmon I catch that might have something nasty and post them here for proof. Maybe we should all do the same from what Dr. Morton has suggested.

 

[Whole in the Water]

I am very glad to have you join our forum Alexandra! You are respected by many of this forum for your courage, perserverance and dedication to fighting against a unsustainable and harmful industry. I welcome your insight and information.

IMO I see a perfect storm of issues forming (i.e. illegal halibut allocation, Fraser chinook #'s, chinook for Orcas, herring overfishing, Area 19-20 reg closures, fish farm pollution & disease, loss of fish habitat, Oil tankers on the North Coast, gutting the Fisheries Act, etc....) that are starting to get more and more people concerned and ready to do something to improve things. While all these issues are serious concerns to contend with, we need to use the times where in to get people informed, united and active to bring about change for the better!

 

[profisher]

I think a meeting on the south Island would be a great start. A chance for a meeting of the minds and to for those of us in our sector who may be hesitant to support any conservation group to hear Dr. Morton first hand. Also an opportunity for her to hear our concerns. I believe a big crowd would attend and I'm sure many would be generous in their support after hearing her message and end goals. Maybe an indoor meeting and then a short walk down to the Legislature showing our support and inviting others to walk with us.

 

[alexandramorton]

In addition to speaking with you, it would be great to be able to work with some of you to get samples. I am looking for chinook in particular from Clayoquot Sound, Nootka Sound, Knight or Kingcome Inlets and Discovery Islands. Sampling is finicky business and it costs me about $100/fish to process, so I am looking for high quality more that quantity. But you guys do the hard part - catching them! There are several symptoms that would be great to be sampling, as well as just getting information and pictures on such as: yellow skin colour, red speckling on the bellies, bugged out eyes, brilliant red at the base of fins, and pale gills. Also EXTREMELY important would be any Atlantic salmon you guys catch. Please contact me if you think you want to do this. You would need to measure, weigh, photograph the fish inside and out, take a DNA sample, put the gills and heart on ice and get to me, or Anissa Reed (Backbone of the coast T-shirt designer who lives in Qualicum Beach) within a few days. We also accept whole wild salmon any time! In the case of an Atlantic I could do a lot with them if they were fresh, on ice, whole, no gutting. Long and lat. for all samples would be great, but otherwise just general location. If you are photographing fish with any of the symptoms mentioned above it is huge if you can take a scrap of paper and write the date, place and if you want your name and contact (or send seperately) My email is gorbuscha@gmail.com (latin name for pink salmon) Also email me if you want to be on my mailing list where I update people on findings etc. I have posted a briefing on my blog about two viruses I think are seriously impacting south coast BC salmon. alexandramorton.typepad.com If we want wild salmon it is up to us - without a doubt!

 

[Charlie]

Hello,

thank you Lorne for alerting me to this conversation. There is so much that I learned in the Cohen documents I read (thousands) and now from the disease testing that I am doing. There are three very serious viruses in salmon, that DFO has turned a blind eye to in salmon feedlots. They are in your fish and there is no evidence they can survive this if they keeping pouring out from the salmon feedlots. Government is covering this up and I don't have means to get the information out there. So was very glad to see this forum. what is the best way to communicate with you guys? I have a blog alexandramorton.typepad.com

Been waiting for you to jump in Alex! Welcome!

There are lots of other problems...habitat, farms, viruses etc etc...I'm taking on the nets in the river...Charlie I'll leave you with the farms!!

Oh... forgot! Sure glad to see people are NOT... “I’ll leave you with the farms” anymore! As if you dig a little deeper - you will find those “fish farms” are what is "killing" your wild salmon!

 

[Charlie]

From 'Facebook': Anissa Reed

So much has happened with our salmon testing lately including sequencing ISA virus in a Vedder Chum and finding one of the most virulent strains of it in a farmed Atlantic purchased in the supermarket. Tests keep coming back with alarming results. Please come to one of these talks and hear the details of it all. Spread the message please.
—

 

[Englishman]

From 'Facebook': Anissa Reed

So much has happened with our salmon testing lately including sequencing ISA virus in a Vedder Chum and finding one of the most virulent strains of it in a farmed Atlantic purchased in the supermarket. Tests keep coming back with alarming results. Please come to one of these talks and hear the details of it all. Spread the message please.
—



View attachment 3527

This is a a great piece of information. EVERYONE in the South Island who cares about wild salmon should be at one (or all!) of these talks, especially us rec fishers!
Let's make the numbers and hear the evidence!!

 

[alexandramorton]

You guys are going to be sorry I got on here.... the bad news just keeps coming. Yesterday the labs I am using found Heart and Skeletal Muscle Inflammation in nearly all the farm salmon I bought for sampling in supermarkets across Vancouver. The markets said the fish were raised in BC, the science says it is highly contagious to fish outside the pens. It is a virus that attacks the salmon's heart, weakening the muscles. In the pen they lie weakly and many recover, but that is not going to work so well for salmon trying to eat something other than pellets, escape an orca, or swim 800km of the Fraser River. You can check my blog for the details. alexandramorton.typepad.com One of the symptoms you can check for is exceptionally mushy hearts. Also the fish are stunted, small and some have sores.

 

[sammyslabber]

Alex if it'll help, i can save all the hearts from the Chinooks I catch.If there is a problem it would be great to aquire some further data to back up claims that farmed Salmon are infecting wild Salmon.
IMHO if we show the facts to the people who are buying the farmed Salmon they may realize what they're eating may not be good for them.The hard part as we surely know is changing the Goverment's opinion re: farmed Salmon.

 

[absolon]

The only people who can get the farm salmon away from the wild salmon is the province of BC.

I've wondered about this ever since you worked so hard to take salmon farms away from provincial control and insisted DFO must be responsible. I have never been able to find an explanation for why you did so. Perhaps you could explain now, particularly in light of the quoted statement?

 

[Foxsea]

I've wondered about this ever since you worked so hard to take salmon farms away from provincial control and insisted DFO must be responsible. I have never been able to find an explanation for why you did so. Perhaps you could explain now, particularly in light of the quoted statement?

Absolon: you are apparently new here and perhaps are not yet aware that we do not suffer trolls gladly.
We are working hard in our attempt to preserve and enhance wild salmon stocks, as is Dr. Morton. You are not at all helpful in this endeavour being in retrograde, as you seem to be. You a Norwegian salmon farmer, by chance?
Get on board and stay, go away or Holmes will get you with the Troll Spray. Have a good day!

 

[Rockfish]

I've wondered about this ever since you worked so hard to take salmon farms away from provincial control and insisted DFO must be responsible. I have never been able to find an explanation for why you did so. Perhaps you could explain now, particularly in light of the quoted statement?

Dr. Morton is held in the highest regard by millions of Canadians and certainly by those on this forum. Many feel she deserves the Order of Canada. To myself and I suspect others; Dr. Morton is considered a highly valued guest, is here providing information of great value and interest and should be treated with the upmost respect. For some newbie’s first post to be an attempt to cross examine her and draw her into a debate is just not going to be well received. I would never presume to speak for her but I can assure you that if she decides not to respond to you, we will more than understand.

This forum in my view is to provide a platform for the sports fishing community to provide information and support to each other and to advance the interests of sports fishing and fish. If you are a legitimate angler I would suggest you introduce yourself on one of the other forums available here and in time you may build up some credibility.

If however, you are just another Political Hack/Lobbyist/Troll with an agenda that is not related to protecting wild salmon and the advancement of sport fishing; I think Foxsea pretty much has that covered.