Thousands of 10-pound Atlantic salmon, catch as many as you want!

Steroids. You can't back that up and no-one her can for you.
Die: you can call it what you want but it is not die. Try again.

Spring volicity, If you want an honest dialog here a few thing have to happen. Individuals who have no clue what they are talking about have to own it. Until we get the usual suspects here to stop using these threads as sound off boards to address the issue as a whole instead of sticking to the topic then it won't happen because the same untruths always arise.
What we see on this forum is exactly what we are seeing out in the real world. There was this massive escape(an event) and its all hands on deck for activist for their cause now that they have a little media attention. Some one post a salmon farming topic and it always triggers an all out assault on salmon farming as a whole and it usually is a lot like the post I quoted above. Repeat repeat repeat. Thankfully people are questioning their media sources a hell of alot more these days and the same could be said for the info supplied on this forum.

WITW, you may as well just copy and past this post and use it every time you feel like your adding something because no matter how you say it its the exact same thing pretty much every time. Over and over and over and and over over and over and and over... It adds little to the discussion.

Birdsnest, you are no doubt well informed and VERY QUICK to point out the ignorance of the members on this forum when they criticize Fish Farms.
Lets face it, the average guy cannot enter into a debate with you as there are so many conflicting reports and opinions that it is impossible to differentiate between fact and fiction.
Please answer these few simple questions
1. Was the first reason given from Cooke Agriculture when their pens collapsed "the eclipse of the sun and high tides caused the failure"
2. Did this later be proven totally false and the statement withdrawn?
3. Are the sick Atlantic Salmon shown in this video real or false?
https://youtu.be/duhnZB5Bjcw
Not tough questions and I look forward to seeing your response.
 
Steroids. You can't back that up and no-one her can for you.
Die: you can call it what you want but it is not die. Try again.

Spring volicity, If you want an honest dialog here a few thing have to happen. Individuals who have no clue what they are talking about have to own it. Until we get the usual suspects here to stop using these threads as sound off boards to address the issue as a whole instead of sticking to the topic then it won't happen because the same untruths always arise.
What we see on this forum is exactly what we are seeing out in the real world. There was this massive escape(an event) and its all hands on deck for activist for their cause now that they have a little media attention. Some one post a salmon farming topic and it always triggers an all out assault on salmon farming as a whole and it usually is a lot like the post I quoted above. Repeat repeat repeat. Thankfully people are questioning their media sources a hell of alot more these days and the same could be said for the info supplied on this forum.

WITW, you may as well just copy and past this post and use it every time you feel like your adding something because no matter how you say it its the exact same thing pretty much every time. Over and over and over and and over over and over and and over... It adds little to the discussion.

Wow. :eek: Thanks for that.
 
Steroids. You can't back that up and no-one her can for you.
Die: you can call it what you want but it is not die. Try again.

Spring volicity, If you want an honest dialog here a few thing have to happen. Individuals who have no clue what they are talking about have to own it. Until we get the usual suspects here to stop using these threads as sound off boards to address the issue as a whole instead of sticking to the topic then it won't happen because the same untruths always arise.
What we see on this forum is exactly what we are seeing out in the real world. There was this massive escape(an event) and its all hands on deck for activist for their cause now that they have a little media attention. Some one post a salmon farming topic and it always triggers an all out assault on salmon farming as a whole and it usually is a lot like the post I quoted above. Repeat repeat repeat. Thankfully people are questioning their media sources a hell of alot more these days and the same could be said for the info supplied on this forum.

WITW, you may as well just copy and past this post and use it every time you feel like your adding something because no matter how you say it its the exact same thing pretty much every time. Over and over and over and and over over and over and and over... It adds little to the discussion.

BN, you only replied about the die (sic) and the steroids, what about the antibiotics, pesticides, GMO grains? What about SV's concerns about mining the sea of bait fish to feed industrial scale farmed salmon? Please add something new to this discussion...

The complaint above does little to add to the discussion. If you want an honest dialogue then start one and don't complain if there are those that disagree or challenge you. That is a big part of what these forums are all about.

In regards to people that are questioning media sources more these days - kinda makes me chuckle a bit because the majority of these people questioning the media are Trump supporters and the alt-right who call any news they do not like 'fake news'.

It seems at times on this forum when "usual suspects" fish farm supporters feel they cannot adequately defend their problematic industry they complain that the people on this forum are too difficult to discuss these issues with. Or, is it more a case of the positions that fish farm supporters are too difficult to defend. Never heard this type of complaint from the anti fish farm folks on this forum.

Anti fish farm forum members don't have to "own" anything they can discuss whatever topics, however they like under the forum owner's rules. Just because they do not agree with fish farm supporters does not mean they do not have a clue - they just disagree.

The same "massive untruths" don't keep arising - that is only your biased perspective on the some of the unresolved issues on this important controversial topic that keep coming up. A growing number of people are very concerned about the impact of this industry on the environment and there is nothing wrong with the media covering these concerns. That is the beauty of a free press in a democracy.

I and many other anti-salmon net pen feedlot forum members will continue to exercise our free speech rights as concerned citizens regarding the many problems that plague this industry and in my case, until it is moved out of the water and onto the land where it's negative environmental impacts can be better managed. My 2 bits!
 
Birdsnest, you are no doubt well informed and VERY QUICK to point out the ignorance of the members on this forum when they criticize Fish Farms.
Lets face it, the average guy cannot enter into a debate with you as there are so many conflicting reports and opinions that it is impossible to differentiate between fact and fiction.
Please answer these few simple questions
1. Was the first reason given from Cooke Agriculture when their pens collapsed "the eclipse of the sun and high tides caused the failure"
2. Did this later be proven totally false and the statement withdrawn?
3. Are the sick Atlantic Salmon shown in this video real or false?
https://youtu.be/duhnZB5Bjcw
Not tough questions and I look forward to seeing your response.

I think its absolute BS about the eclipse. I said so right from the get go. I was fairly confident that it was bs from the get go however I have not actually confirmed that response as official however to me it do not matter. Tides happen they get large and the moon gets in the path of the sun. They system has to be engineered to accommodate those factors. I would also ad that the system they have there is well past its prime. Not only is the system(walkways and flotation) beyond its time it is a type of system that isn't even used anymore. Far stronger systems are used here in bc.
I know that some here really want to use the video images from morton and others of those skinny pathetic fish however if you understand evolution at a basic level you will well know that those types of fish happen in the wild and with hatchery fish where predators , Disease take them out of sight. This is all your seeing in those pens and it probably about .05% of the population and they generally occupy the surface portion of a net pen population so we are seeing them on the "edited" videos". This happens in all forms of farming including carrots.

The agent, he(hope I got your pronoun right), in the past has defended the american siting criteria in comparison to canada when we were bashing USA salmon farming and how it gets no funding against it. I wonder what he would say about Engeneering. You won't get a answer from him/her( his identity is a secret her for some reason) on the topic because he does not care he does not want farms in the water, period.

I have to say it tho FI Im not sure why you ask, as much as an "expert" i am and you are not, the info I provide is not going to shift how you see it and I thank you for that contribution. Its another example of how the protester works. I feel like we are stuck at "if it isn't natural it isn't right".
 
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Thanks for the reply Birdsnest
Can't say I agree with you when you say "those types of (diseased) fish happen in the wild"
To what extent this occurs in the wild is an assumption.
Like so many things in this debate.
For what it's worth...
It is my belief the mass die offs that occur in Fish Farms from time to time do not occur to the same extent in the wild due to the transient behavior of Salmon
It is also my belief that Sea Lice are a threat to wild salmon and Fish Farm use slice to control sea lice to try and coincide with the salmon fry passing by to the ocean in order to try and reduce fatalities.
It is also my belief that Atlantic Salmon will eat fry and other bait fish when they enter the pens.
It is also my belief waste that you see in the nets and around the pens is a threat to wild stock and nature in general.
It also my belief that the ocean bottom below the net pens is a polluted sick and a dead sea.
It is also my belief that the diseases concentrated in net pen Atlantic salmon are a threat to our wild stocks
All assumptions on my part.
In general I hear from Fish Farms that many or some of my fears are simply the "cost of doing business" and exist in all farming practices.
A very self serving belief which I feel is unacceptable.
The email below, which I received just today tells another story which I have heard from other reliable sources.

"XXXX was working at the XXX XXX XXXX Hotel restaurant one summer. A ‘new’ batch of farmed salmon
arrived.
He said the heads were all distorted and different shapes and you could poke your finger right
through the flesh of the main body. He and I will not even ‘touch’ a farmed salmon."

We may never agree on the subject of Fish Farms, however perhaps this will better help you understand why so many of us feel the way we do.
 
Good beliefs, I think a farm supporter is only trying correct your beliefs, but most times there written in stone.

If I was your boss and the fish were still hungry after a feeding..... Your fired. Your not doing your job, lol.
 
The agent, he(hope I got your pronoun right), in the past has defended the american siting criteria in comparison to canada when we were bashing USA salmon farming and how it gets no funding against it.
Actually I was detailing the lack of risk assessment and mitigation - particularly when looking at water flow and infective vectors (sea lice, viruses, bacteria) - where those kinds of science-based processes (e.g. agent-based modelling verses the current non-science based Canadian standard linear mapping exercise) are used - mostly in Europe - and definitely NOT Canada. Not sure what the latter part of your statement meant.
The agent, he(hope I got your pronoun right), in the past has defended the american siting criteria in comparison to canada when we were bashing USA salmon farming and how it gets no funding against it. I wonder what he would say about generating. You won't get a answer from him/her( his identity is a secret her for some reason) on the topic because he does not care he does not want farms in the water, period.
I'm not understanding what you are either stating, nor asking. Generating what?
 
Thanks for the reply Birdsnest
Can't say I agree with you when you say "those types of (diseased) fish happen in the wild"
To what extent this occurs in the wild is an assumption.
Predators and disease is how nature, in a natural environment, removes pour genetics. If you think it doesn't happen naturally then you are in denial of how nature works. Surely the agent could help you understand although he has a tendency to not correct individuals who are on his side on the issue.

Thanks for your being factual about your opinion and how it is your "belief". Very honest and respectable.
 
Actually I was detailing the lack of risk assessment and mitigation - particularly when looking at water flow and infective vectors (sea lice, viruses, bacteria) - where those kinds of science-based processes (e.g. agent-based modelling verses the current non-science based Canadian standard linear mapping exercise) are used - mostly in Europe - and definitely NOT Canada. Not sure what the latter part of your statement meant.
I'm not understanding what you are either stating, nor asking. Generating what?
Sorry. I meant engineering.
 
Predators and disease is how nature, in a natural environment, removes pour genetics. If you think it doesn't happen naturally then you are in denial of how nature works. Surely the agent could help you understand although he has a tendency to not correct individuals who are on his side on the issue. Thanks for your being factual about your opinion and how it is your "belief". Very honest and respectable.
Yes -salmon have adjusted to "natural" levels of parasites and disease vectors -that is the issue with the open net-pen technology. Diseases and parasites flow in and out - and are released from stationary farms along the migration routes of outmigrating smolts. The smaller smolts are particularly sensitive to elevated levels of sea lice -from the large number of adult Atlantic salmon farms situated on their migration route. There is also the issue of ISAv, PRv and other non-native, exotic farm-introduced diseases and their impacts once released upon a naive population.
 
Sorry I was not clear in my question at all. And the question you have answered with this:

"Actually I was detailing the lack of risk assessment and mitigation - particularly when looking at water flow and infective vectors (sea lice, viruses, bacteria) - where those kinds of science-based processes (e.g. agent-based modelling verses the current non-science based Canadian standard linear mapping exercise) are used - mostly in Europe - and definitely NOT Canada. Not sure what the latter part of your statement meant."

I think you may be somewhat mistaken. I know that before a salmon farm gets placed there is tones of research done on the area to measure current speed and direction, bottom material for use of the proper anchors and along with all the other obvious issues that assist in farming responsibly. You make it sound like they just slap a system and nets in there and guess how much ropes and heavy stuff should do and that is absolutely not true. However if thats what you believe then I'm ok with that however it would be a pour pour very pour business practice to do so. What kind of business risks loosing their stock. What kind of insurance company would insure such a practice. It just doesn't make sense. Farmers have to get their fish to market or they fail.

I don't know how it is in the USA but by the looks of that system from the original topic, I would say the standard is far lower than in Canada.
 
Yes -salmon have adjusted to "natural" levels of parasites and disease vectors -that is the issue with the open net-pen technology. Diseases and parasites flow in and out - and are released from stationary farms along the migration routes of outmigrating smolts. The smaller smolts are particularly sensitive to elevated levels of sea lice -from the large number of adult Atlantic salmon farms situated on their migration route. There is also the issue of ISAv, PRv and other non-native, exotic farm-introduced diseases and their impacts once released upon a naive population.

You never miss an opportunity and this post is an example of that. repeat repeat repeat. constantly repeating yourself about issues we have discussed extensively again and again. The reality about those issues is more work is needed. Its no smoking gun your bringing up agent. This is work in progress as we speak and you fail to admit it. Fill you boots dude. I think your just a activist who gets paid to be here. Your identity is a secret and you seem to post little to nothing about fishing. Thats my opinion on your presence here.
 
You never miss an opportunity and this post is an example of that. repeat repeat repeat. constantly repeating yourself about issues we have discussed extensively again and again. The reality about those issues is more work is needed. Its no smoking gun your bringing up agent. This is work in progress as we speak and you fail to admit it. Fill you boots dude. I think your just a activist who gets paid to be here. Your identity is a secret and you seem to post little to nothing about fishing. Thats my opinion on your presence here.

LOL, I know who AA is and I can tell you for certain that he is not an paid activist and he is certainly not Alexandra Morton. He is a very knowledgeable, dedicated concerned citizen with great research skills. In regards to repeating things - why is AA's identify brought up here over again on an anonymous forum? It is a non issue by the very structure and function of this forum.
 
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..I know that before a salmon farm gets placed there is tones of research done on the area to measure current speed and direction, bottom material for use of the proper anchors and along with all the other obvious issues that assist in farming responsibly. You make it sound like they just slap a system and nets in there and guess how much ropes and heavy stuff should do and that is absolutely not true...
So - you think fish can swim only 0.99 of a km from the mouth of a stream determined to be "significant"? You defend that? How about that water flow has no influence on the transport of lice and disease vectors? Can you defend that? Sounds like you are unfamiliar with siting criteria - which is understandable since they have made it more difficult to find and critique by the public.

Maybe have a review of the siting criteria (Part2, Section A, p.8) at: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/fa...cific_marine_finfish_new_site_application.pdf

Then look at the one study they did on agent-based modelling at: http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2015/mpo-dfo/Fs70-5-2015-005-eng.pdf

Check out the Dispersion clouds in Figure 14 on p. 26 and Fig. 17 & 18 on p. 31-32.

Compare the 2....
 
I was talking about anchoring and engineering of the systems at the sites. Again I see you want to discuss other things on these threads that don't have much to do with the original topic. You do this over and over and over. Every oportunity you will stear the discussion to some paper that's highly technical and isnt absolute like tobacco causes cancer. I see what you do here on this forum and I am willing to point it out continuously.
 
I'm not an expert on this subject, just a moderately informed nobody but to me this situation/subject is very simple.

All arguments in favour of ocean based farms are economic arguments.
No one deserves cheap salmon. It's not electricity or heat or shelter. It's a luxury food product.

It doesn't matter that you can engineer safer pens, the risk is non-zero for disease and escapement with impact on local environs.
Farm on land or don't do it at all. Humanity managed to survive for thousands of years without exploitative aquaculture and it will without it again.

People might lose their jobs you say (ignoring the potential land based farming roles)?
Well, that is a shame. I imagine all the 19th century whalers will offer a shoulder to cry on.
 
Whether they are anchored properly or not - the net cage technology is still open - leaking parasites and disease vectors into the environment for wild stocks to interact with...

Repeat repeAt repeat. Over and over and over. Repeat repeat repeat. Over and over and over
Never miss an oportunity.
So you can't gish gallop any more agent and your repeating has bean called out. There's not much left of you on this topic is there. Lol

Anyway, it's time for me to bow out of this one for a while. Its hard to to stay on topic with you fellas going off course constantly.
Have a great long weekend!
 
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