Stubborn Kicker - ARGGGGG

[Franko Manini]

Folks,

I bought a new to me boat in the summer and have been using it regularly. It came with a matched pair of 2010 Suzuki outboards, a DF140 and a DF9.9TH. The kicker has always been a bit difficult to start, but it has gotten worse. It is the high thrust, electric start, hydraulic tilt model.

The symptoms are:

Hard starting - it never fires right up. Lots of cranking, no backfires or pops, but it will eventually catch.

Runs rough - when it initially catches, it is hard to keep it running. Once it warms up, it is better, but still has the occasional pop or miss.

It vibrates - I have read that this is pretty common with this engine, and honestly, mine doesn't seem as bad as some others have been described to be.

What I have done:
Stored it empty - I always run the fuel out of it. I flush it for 10 minutes after every use in the salt, and then disconnect the fuel supply and run it dry.

Use good fuel: The fuel in the main tank (both motors share the same fuel supply) is fresh and propoerly stabilized. I use marked gas with 0 ethanol.

Fresh fuel: I grabbed a jerry can and went down and bought brand new fuel and tried running the motor off that - no difference. I also have a second fuel line that I tried - no difference.

I popped the cover off and had a look around, but everything looked so foreign to me that I decided I better not monkey with anything until I had a better idea what to do. I could not see any loose wires, hoses, no obvious leaks or damage.

The frustrating thing for me is that the guy that I bought this off of put an hour meter on this outboard and it's got 34.5 hours on it to date. And yes, he was right up front about the motor not running well and saying he wasn't happy with it, and we factored that into the price. To me, a motor with that little time on it should be purring like a kitten, not coughing like a tuberculosis patient.

Does anyone have any pointers, tips, suggestions? And in the worst case, is there a member on this site that I could take it to for some fixin? I'd rather keep the money in the family if you know what I mean. Barring that, where could I take it here in Victoria?

Thanks everyone. This thing is driving me NUTS.

 

[the fog ducker]

Gordy is a good bet ,Breakers marine Bam , always very helpful with us

248 Frigate Rd, Bamfield, BC V0R 1B0
(250) 728-3281

http://www.breakersmarine.com/

 

[salmonkiller01]

To me it sounds like you need to clean the carb. I am not too familiar with suzuki's but sounds like my mercury's problem and it was the carb. Fairly simple job, and you should not need new gaskets. Just pull off the carb, take it apart and clean with carb cleaner. Pay special attention to the air fuel hole, on my merc it had a cap over the screw and once I found it and cleaned that port it ran like a champ. Did the same for my neighbours yamaha.

 

[rockdog]

Carbs, no matter how new or how many hours the motor has, can pick up a piece of whatever from a fuel source that may be contaminated. It happens to me at least once a year. When mine runs like that, it's because something made its way into the carb and has found its way to the idle jet. The idle jet likely has something blocking the hole. I don't use carb cleaner. I've found that disassembling the carburetor and removing the idle jet, and blowing it out with compressed air to be the most effective 'clean out'. I then will blow out all ports and passageways with the air. Always runs like a champ after that. I'd try this first....

 

[CIVANO]

I have a Yamaha 9.9 and after cleaning the carb and replacing the diaphragm it still was a monster in the mornings to get it running. It turned out to be a thermostat that opened at too low a temp.

 

[Califbill]

My Yamaha is the carb when the low speed and trolling will not run. Low speed jet hole is very tiny, so any thing dirty blocks it. Seems if taking it apart and blowing it out works better than carb cleaner.

 

[Tightlines22]

Even if gas was left in for one season w/o treatment it can start to turn to varnish. Taking apart the carb and blowing air through as others have said will llikely fix it however if there is any sludge and varnish inside then consider using some carb cleaner as well.

 

[Franko Manini]

Okay guys, I hauled the carb out tonight, disassembled it and cleaned it with carb cleaner and air.

It looked clean, but after spraying it out with carb cleaner, look at what came out!

I need to replace the gasket on the manifold side tomorrow and I will get it buttoned up after that.

Fingers crossed.


Franko

MILF (Man, I Love Fishing)

 

[Sharphooks]

Just to echo what all the other guys said in reply to your problem---carb,carb,carb

The fact that it only had 34 hours doesn't say much: it's been said that gas starts deteriorating within days of going into a tank (carb)---if the former owner ran it 33 hours, let it sit for 3 months without draining the carb, then got that 34 th hour on the hour meter, there you go: plugged up jets

I bought a new Honda 9.9 in 2011---electric choke which worried me. I am now going well past 1,000 hours on her---she has NEVER missed a beat---first push on the electric started button, she fires up. Pull the cord instead of using the battery---same thing---fires up right away and stays fired up until I shut her down

My secret? No, it's not because it's a Honda. It's because I've drained the carb EACH and EVERY TIME I put her away. I've done that consistently since the day I hung her off my stern.

The Honda engineers put two pee holes in the leg of the engine. One for cooling water. The other one for......draining gas out of the carb in a nice clean stream that goes into a bottle I hold under the second pee hole

That second hole? It was kind of like the engineers who designed that kicker were trying to tell me something important

 

[Franko Manini]

The Zukes have the same pee hole part deux. It's just that I never knew it was there until I took the carb off tonight. It is behind a little plug on the starboard side of the engine. I will be using that from now on.


Franko

MILF (Man, I Love Fishing)

 

[saltydawg]

Anybody know how to drain carb on Yamaha 9.9 electric start?
thanks

 

[profisher]

Spin on water separating gas filters guys. Have one on the fuel line for the main and another on the fuel line for the kicker. Never have had dirty carbs in many years and hours of use on both. Change them every year. When I change them there is always a lot of crap in the gas that I dump from the old filters. This year about a tablespoon of water in one of them as well...probably condensation.

 

[profisher]

Salty there should be a drain screw near the bottom of the float bowl section of the carb.

 

[rockdog]

Franco,

You removed the idle jet and blew out the jet, aswell as the idle circuit? This is very important..

 

[the fog ducker]

blowing out with air is very important ,

i learned how to disassemble my yami T-8
last year , change the needle as well , inexpensive part , blow out all the arteries ,
drain your fuel bowl out at the of the year as well , ethanol is brutal on rubber and seals ,
mine runs like a swiss watch again , nice ta know your motor ! mechanics not always available
at the spur of the moment...

*** for anyone that owns a newer T-8 or T-9 , i had my motor looked at a few times , problem kept arising , stalling out after running for a while , sometimes even an hour or 3 later , it was a sticking needle , it would not drop when the fuel bowl drained while running , starving it of fuel , a very fine flat file , carefully filing the needles body fixed the problem , has ran perfect ever since , my needle was not available that day out west !!

gd lk , your def on the right path
( i keep a compressor at camp now !! )

fd

 

[Franko Manini]

Yes... I think I did! There are two jets on the bowl side (underside) of the carb. I took the bowl off, pulled out the float, removed the two jets (one is covered by a big fat rubber plug), blew out the jets and any pathway I could find in the whole carb. If these are the idle jet(s) then I blew them out good! I also removed the top cover or the carb and cleaned everything out of there and gave it a good blow out in every place I could find.

I have go buy some gasket material and make a couple new gaskets for the intake side and then I can fire it up and check it tonight.

 

[rockdog]

Yup, well done Franco. It sounds like you got them. They are on the underside of the carb, in the fuel bowl.

When I remove the jets to clean mine out, I like to hold the jet up to a bright light to see if there is a blockage before I blow it out.

 

[Franko Manini]

Good tips guys...

I also learned the hard way that carb cleaner causes rubber gaskets to swell! Fortunately I also learned that hitting the, with a heat gun... Gently... Will shrink them back down so they fit into their grooves.




Franko

MILF (Man, I Love Fishing)

 

[sly_karma]

Supplies needed:
Bucket of carb cleaner
strainer rack
source of clean compressed air
lint free cloths
carb repair kit
factory shop manual

Disassemble everything, keep all replaceable parts. Soak metal parts in carb cleaner 3-4 hrs. Wash off with water, allow to drain briefly. Blow water off all surfaces and fuel passages. Reassemble using new O rings, gaskets, needle and float. Check and adjust float height to spec. Install, adjust, and enjoy clean smooth running engine.

Soaking in carb cleaner is the best way to get rid of the varnish deposits that build up, especially in those fuel passages cast into the carb body. Even a slight restriction there can cause problems or lacklustre performance. Just blowing out with air won't get rid of varnish and gum. Carb kits are cheap, about $30 for factory parts. Replace it all and get rid of possible air or fuel leaks. If you bought your engines used like I did, you may well find previous owner used incorrect parts, hard washers instead of O rings, stuff like that. Some kits include the gaskets connecting carb to intake manifold and air cleaner, some don't. Check ahead and have those gaskets in hand as well.

 

[Franko Manini]

The saga continues...

I got up this morning and bolted the carb back on. I was careful to check that I routed the fuel line and choke cable correctly, and it buttoned up nicely. I double checked everything, connected the fuel line to the boat pumped up the bulb until it was firm and hit the starter button. NOTHING.

After several attempts to start the motor, I checked the fuel supply by opening the drain screw on the carb. There was plenty of fuel in the bowl. The choke was on, and I verified in the manual the position of the throttle for starting. The motor was not flooded. After a few more tries, I could not get the thing to light. So I pulled the plugs and checked them. They were not wet or particularly dirty. I took them out and cleaned them anyway and when I went to install them, I verified that there was a spark when turning the engine over. Good spark was visible in daylight conditions so I figure that is a good sign.

I reinstalled the plugs and cranked it over, choke on, throttle in the start position. Nothing. I dug around and found a can of starting fluid. I gave it one short blast in the intake and hit the start button. It fired up immediately, and on short order it was running smooth. It even throttled down to a nice steady 900 RPM idle. That is lower than I have ever been able to run it. I played with the throttle a bit, running the motor at various speeds for a bit. I stopped and started it several times with no issues after that.

I had more work to do on the boat and I wanted to see if I was going to have issues starting it cold, so I shut it down and let it cool for the rest of the day. I drained the fuel out of the bowl inc are I couldn't come back to it today. Late in the afternoon, I primed the fuel bulb again, choked the motor, and hit the starter. Nothing. It would not start. It just turns over with no indication that it is going to start. So, another hit of starter fluid and again, it starts right up and runs like a champ.

I was wondering if it had something to do with me draining the fuel out, so I shut the engine down, drained the fuel as I usually do, ran the engine for a minute to clear out the remnants of fuel, let the engine sit for a few minutes, then reconnected the fuel supply, primed the bulb and restarted the engine. It started just fine, and ran well.

So it appears that I have solved the rough idle, but not the hard starting. I have spark, and using ether it starts immediately. When I took the plugs out, there was no wetness to them. No fuel at starting?

Losing my frickin mind on this. Anyone have any suggestions?


Franko

MILF (Man, I Love Fishing)