Southeast Alaska is shutting down their chinook fisheries...gulp

[ericl]

There are about 108K Chinook in the NBC TAC (total allowable catch). This info is available in the DFO fisheries notices:
http://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm
It's also on the internet. The TAC is established each spring.
SEAK (South East Alaska) gets a similar number.
The SEAK & NBC sporties get about 50K each.

The numbers are established by the Pacific Salmon Commission's Chinook Technical Committee.
The numbers vary from year-to-year based on Chinook abundance estimates, and the fisheries are known as AABM fisheries (Aggregate Abundance Based Management).
One factor used to estimate abundance is the number of Chinook Jack Salmon counted at dam fish ladders on the Columbia. Many rivers in BC are not monitored. I believe there are 21 rivers in BC that are part of the AABM estimate. Google will be your friend if interested.
Fish are harvested where they grow-up or migrate irregardless of whether they are from health hatchery runs or endangered wild runs. Many of the Puget Sound hatchery runs do not meet spawning goals.
Several conservation organizations point out the insanity of the AAMB fisheries, saying these fish should be harvested (if at all) near their river mouths so that only healthy runs are harvested.

Ziggy; it's a well-known fact:

http://wildfishconservancy.org/images/news/CaughtFarFromHome2011journalchart.jpg

Just like the SEAK fisheries hammer the endangered WCVI Chinook.

As for Americans up in BC hammering, dunno, but sometimes I am one of them.

If you look at the above referenced chart closely (put down your beer) you will notice that only 3% of the Chinook caught in SEAK are of Alaskan origin.

The "word" about hammering came from the tackle shop owner I shop at. He is very involved in fisheries. The info comes from his Canadian customers as he ships all over the West Coast (Silver Horde is about 5 miles from his shop).

We were discussing this same topic 2 weeks ago; fisheries that should not exists because they hammer somebody elses fish. Haida Gwaii fell into this category as well as all of SE Alaska.

Give-and-take on this subject has been going on since the first US/Canada Salmon Treaty back in 1985. The Chinook portion of the treaty is up for re-negotiation in 2018.

I am sure wildmanyeah is totally correct on this one; Alaska would NEVER undertake this on their own.

 

[ericl]

The WA & Oregon coasts are open for Chinook (sports). The quotas in WA are very small, like 30K.

For some years the US got Fraser Sockeye because we paid the remove a landslide blocking the Fraser when Canada didn't have the money.

 

[ziggy]

There are about 108K Chinook in the NBC TAC (total allowable catch). This info is available in the DFO fisheries notices:
http://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm
It's also on the internet. The TAC is established each spring.
SEAK (South East Alaska) gets a similar number.
The SEAK & NBC sporties get about 50K each.

The numbers are established by the Pacific Salmon Commission's Chinook Technical Committee.
The numbers vary from year-to-year based on Chinook abundance estimates, and the fisheries are known as AABM fisheries (Aggregate Abundance Based Management).
One factor used to estimate abundance is the number of Chinook Jack Salmon counted at dam fish ladders on the Columbia. Many rivers in BC are not monitored. I believe there are 21 rivers in BC that are part of the AABM estimate. Google will be your friend if interested.
Fish are harvested where they grow-up or migrate irregardless of whether they are from health hatchery runs or endangered wild runs. Many of the Puget Sound hatchery runs do not meet spawning goals.
Several conservation organizations point out the insanity of the AAMB fisheries, saying these fish should be harvested (if at all) near their river mouths so that only healthy runs are harvested.

Ziggy; it's a well-known fact:

http://wildfishconservancy.org/images/news/CaughtFarFromHome2011journalchart.jpg

Just like the SEAK fisheries hammer the endangered WCVI Chinook.

As for Americans up in BC hammering, dunno, but sometimes I am one of them.

If you look at the above referenced chart closely (put down your beer) you will notice that only 3% of the Chinook caught in SEAK are of Alaskan origin.

The "word" about hammering came from the tackle shop owner I shop at. He is very involved in fisheries. The info comes from his Canadian customers as he ships all over the West Coast (Silver Horde is about 5 miles from his shop).

We were discussing this same topic 2 weeks ago; fisheries that should not exists because they hammer somebody elses fish. Haida Gwaii fell into this category as well as all of SE Alaska.

Give-and-take on this subject has been going on since the first US/Canada Salmon Treaty back in 1985. The Chinook portion of the treaty is up for re-negotiation in 2018.

I am sure wildmanyeah is totally correct on this one; Alaska would NEVER undertake this on their own.

Wow, put down your beer? You just lost credibility with that comment.

 

[tincan]

Widespread chinook closures in BC are a possibility IMO in large part due to the SRKW situation
--
https://letstalkwhales.ca/learn/killer-whale

Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) has also measured prey availability and sought to understand prey impacts on Killer Whale recovery. Some fishery management actions have occurred over the last decade to conserve and restore Chinook populations. These have included reductions in some offshore Chinook fisheries in southeast Alaska and the Canadian west coast of Vancouver Island , as well as a range of other fishery restrictions to conserve Fraser and other Southern British Columbia Chinook.

Seasonal recreational fishery closures are also routinely implemented through conservative management in years of poor Chinook runs. While not intentionally designed to benefit SRKW, this contributes to preventing further decline of the SRKW’s prey.

 

[ILHG]

The number of American visitors to coastal BC continues to grow every year. The chinook fishery is closed in Wash and Oregon therefor more pressure on the stocks travelling down the coast here. Whether they catch them here or in their own waters, they are still catching them

When I was up at Hippa it was over 90% Americans?!? When I went to QCL it was not much better..... With the low dollar its only getting worse

 

[Clint r]

When I was up at Hippa it was over 90% Americans?!? When I went to QCL it was not much better..... With the low dollar its only getting worse

Not to mention they're farked up halibut system. (Worse than ours if that's possible) They come here for that and take a few salmon home too.

 

[TomicTime]

i have pretty much kept a boat on WCVI for summers onto 30 years. Last year i put $30k into Canada.
this year it looks like about $20k
all kinds of stuff: 4 Islanders ( who can have enough ? )
islander rods
Canada-Proof AGM batteries
moorage at Westview
moorage at Quarterdeck
fuel from Nanimo, C River, Westview, Uke, Shearwater, etc....
volvo outdrive from advanced in C River ( they are freaking fantastic btw !!!! )
boat haul from James at Bowline ( he is a maestro )
the list goes on

i dont know how many jobs that creates.
i assume if the yanks left Hippa that they could not make it on 10% occupancy
but hey in a previous life I was just an Economist

we do need a coordinated plan for fishing on and managing mixed stocks

i am a guest in Canada
love it up there
always try to behave in such a way as to be invited back

peace

jim

 

[Ringo]

Jim

You made valid points and thanks for the contribution$ that you've made to our local economy over the past 30 years. I'm sure you've had a lot of fun up here. Something that kept you coming back year over year. However, this thread diverted from a chinook closure in Alaska to the Canadian sport anglers killing the 'Puget Sound Salmon" that feed and travel through the waters of the ECVI and lately to the financial/economic impact of the US anglers who fish our waters here in Canada.
Let's just bring this discussion back to the conservation concerns and implications of such closures on other species/sectors.

Cheers

 

[IronNoggin]

Does anyone know what how many pieces are in the Commercial troll quota ?? You would think that it would be the first segment closed if any action is taken by the DFO. Rec sector contributes significantly more $ to the economy

Sorry (NOT!) but the largest "quota" for springs in BC waters is set aside for... the Recreational Fleet. Not the trollers which you choose to point a finger at (and of which I am one). Irregardless of just who contributes more jingle to the economy, here, the sporties take considerably more than the trollers. And so, IMHO, it is they that should take the hit first should restrictions be imposed...

Just the facts mam...

Nog

 

[Sharphooks]

And while you're helping to clear the air about which sector in the BC spring fisheries have the largest "quota", Nog, would you also be so kind to remind your Canadian brothers what the provenance is of a HUGE portion of the chinook that are caught by Canadian sports fishermen in Winter Harbor, Nootka, Ucluelet, Bamfield, Port Renfrew, and Sooke?

It makes be cringe hearing a Canadian sports fisherman gripe about Americans "taking" their fish when whether they know it or not, if we take away the Columbia River hatchery spring programs, places like Bamfield would be a ghost town in May and June

OK, now we can bring this discussions back to the conservation concerns and implications of such closures on other species / sectors....

 

[Ringo]

I wouldn't cringe, Sharphooks. Instead, I would open my eyes on facts and the reality of our today's ecosystem. Reason you guys have such massive hatchery programs on Columbia is the construction of multiple dams and socio-economic benefits of the hydro electric power. You guys farked the entire Columbia ecosystem, not just the salmon runs. The wild runs were wiped out because of those dams. We produce our own hydro electric power here in BC and don't benefit from the Columbia hydro power. We also followed some poor practices by building hydro dams on some of our key tributaries and then later on tried to rescue the struggling runs by supplying hatchery fish. Without those dams and their hatchery programs, places like Bamfield and yukee would enjoy healthier local wild runs today. Our hatchery fish has had negative impacts on wild stocks and this is a proven fact. To the extent that many hatchery programs are shutting down in OR and WA. Do sime research. It's out there in Google.
This is an integrated ecosystem and the variables are beyond the US- Canada ownership of "our fish" and "your fish".

Salmon travels in the entire ocean and they don't have a concept of borders, countries and hatchery programs. Our ecosystem is more fragile than ever before because of the short sighted decisions and greed of all sectors and givernment agencies. This is a man-made problem. Continue with this mentality and you will be taking trophy pictures with pinks in a few years.

 

[Sharphooks]

Precisely my point, Ringo. Anadromous fish are moveable furniture and don't respect borders or geography-specific allocations whether made by US or Canadian fishery managers.

And nobody should be proud about the here's and why's of hatchery programs, but at least the resulting fish provide a fishing opportunity where there might not have been one and a visual clue on how you can recognize and protect a wild fish when making your harvest decision

 

[ziggy]

i have pretty much kept a boat on WCVI for summers onto 30 years. Last year i put $30k into Canada.
this year it looks like about $20k
all kinds of stuff: 4 Islanders ( who can have enough ? )
islander rods
Canada-Proof AGM batteries
moorage at Westview
moorage at Quarterdeck
fuel from Nanimo, C River, Westview, Uke, Shearwater, etc....
volvo outdrive from advanced in C River ( they are freaking fantastic btw !!!! )
boat haul from James at Bowline ( he is a maestro )
the list goes on

i dont know how many jobs that creates.
i assume if the yanks left Hippa that they could not make it on 10% occupancy
but hey in a previous life I was just an Economist

we do need a coordinated plan for fishing on and managing mixed stocks

i am a guest in Canada
love it up there
always try to behave in such a way as to be invited back

peace

jim

Well I guess if the lack of guests resulted in a 90% reduction of the Puget Sound Chinook hammering, some would applaud it. After all the topic was originally about WCVI fishermen catching American fish. Don't know for sure, have to check with my tackle salesmanl lol.

 

[ILHG]

I think it can be hard at times for Canadians when we feel any type of American inference. We have our American brothers to the North & to the South.

As one (no so famous in the west) priminister once put it. "Living beside America is like sleeping next to an elephant. Every time it moves or sneezes it you notice".

Keep in mind that in Canada we have less people in the entire country then in all of California.

That said it can easily get under folks skin when they hear anything about having to give up more to America. The country has a reputation of pushing others around and taking what they want. A lot of Canadians feel this already with the Halibut/Salmon fisheries.

(Keep in mind that not to long ago we even lost land above Haida Gwaii to our neighbors because we were not able to hold sovereignty..)

Wity the current NAFTA negotiations (including softwood) I think it may get worse.

I was at a rodeo over the weekend & the announcer was an American (as were many of the riders) when the announcer was going on about Texas some people in the stands started heckling him. "I heard if you don't want our softwood, or oil then we don't want you".... Lots of cheers after that

I am not saying I condone what was said, however I was amazed how people as far away as Calgary are even at wits end with things like soft wood.


This comment is strictly an opinion from one individual (my self)and not ment to be anything other than that.

All I want to do is explain to our American brothers why the see some folks react quickly and harshly to some comments from Americans. Whether it's about treble hooks or Salmon management. (Not that I condone it.) I thought hard about why I got worked up about an honest discussion about treble hooks.... this is what I came up with.

We Canadians love our neighbors, but understand at times we can get cranky, (but we always say sorry)


ILhG

 

[Busterbrown]

Sorry (NOT!) but the largest "quota" for springs in BC waters is set aside for... the Recreational Fleet. Not the trollers which you choose to point a finger at (and of which I am one). Irregardless of just who contributes more jingle to the economy, here, the sporties take considerably more than the trollers. And so, IMHO, it is they that should take the hit first should restrictions be imposed...

Just the facts mam...

Nog

The largest portion should go to the rec sector....you are a commy troller and have a VERY slanted view as to what should be done...you are absolutely correct..the rec sector contributes significantly more to the economy, sorry but that is a very important fact..jobs..jobs ..jobs,

 

[IronNoggin]

The largest portion should go to the rec sector....

And accordingly, when the population of fish in question are in recognized trouble, you, as a sporty who plays with his supper for "fun" (while wounding & releasing many more in the same search of fun), should indeed take the largest hit for conservation purposes. ;-)

Cheers,
Nog

 

[wildmanyeah]

And accordingly, when the population of fish in question are in recognized trouble, you, as a sporty who plays with his supper for "fun" (while wounding & releasing many more in the same search of fun), should indeed take the largest hit for conservation purposes. ;-)

Cheers,
Nog

keep up the good fight my man, as long as they let you guys out their us recies have nothing to worry about.

 

[IronNoggin]

keep up the good fight my man, as long as they let you guys out their us recies have nothing to worry about.

Nothing could be further from the truth "my man".
Although myself and my non-FN colleagues may no longer be there, the FN commercial sector which has been so aggressively promoted by DFO the past many years will FAR outlast us both...

Sad, but true...
Nog

 

[ILHG]

The largest portion should go to the rec sector....you are a commy troller and have a VERY slanted view as to what should be done...you are absolutely correct..the rec sector contributes significantly more to the economy, sorry but that is a very important fact..jobs..jobs ..jobs,

Couldn't agree more with you BB. The resources are the citizens of this fine land/water before they become commercial.

Natives, then Rec, lastly commercial.

 

[Admin]

Going to make this short and sweet. There is plenty of "blame" to go around on this subject, but the only thing blaming some other group will accomplish is a fight, which won't be happening here. As has been pointed out before, when solutions start to evolve there may just be hope that one day this fantastic fishery will rejuvenate to a point where all sectors will enjoy their share of it. Pointing fingers and claiming "your" sector is more deserving of whatever is left of the fishery, might just lead to "you" catching the last remaining fish one day.
Fight the good fight with those who can actually enact change, but please don't fight each other here.