Songhees Sue for part of Victoria!!

T

The Fish Assassin

Guest
From the T/C.

The Songhees First Nation is claiming a large swath of land that takes in part of the Uplands, the Royal Victoria Yacht Club, Cadboro Bay village, Gyro Park and a ribbon stretching across to Telegraph Cove.

Its claim stems from an allegedly broken promise made 160 years ago and will be tested by a lawsuit filed against the federal and provincial governments.

Lawyer Rory Morahan said the band is not trying to reclaim the land promised to it in one of the Douglas Treaties, but is asking for compensation and a declaration that it is Songhees land.

A statement of claim was filed in B.C. Supreme Court yesterday, but it is likely to be at least a year before the case is heard.

The key to launching the lawsuit was finding historical documents, Morahan said. "There's oral tradition about the village site, but in the courts you need more than oral tradition. We have been working on this for about a year, getting the details down," he said.

The treaty with the Chekonein people, ancestors of the Songhees Nation, specifies that they would have 200 acres (80 hectares) around their Cadboro Bay village site, adjacent to the beach, and about 40 acres (16 hectares) of camas and potato fields.

"Under the treaty, the Songhees ancestors were promised that their village sites and fields would be protected for their use and the use of future generations, and that their villages and fields would be properly surveyed," Morahan said.

The treaty was signed in November 1851. James Douglas, then "chief factor of the Hudson's Bay Company and agent of the Imperial Crown," instructed the surveyor to reserve six Indian villages of about 80 hectares each, one of which was the Chekonein village site at Cadboro Bay, he said. Instead, "the colony, or the province, appropriated the lands and issued title to the lands to other parties -- that is, non-aboriginal colonists," said Morahan.

In 2006, the Esquimalt and Songhees First Nations accepted a settlement of $31.5 million after filing a lawsuit claiming a chunk of downtown Victoria, including the B.C. legislature lands.

Songhees Chief Robert Sam did not return calls yesterday.


I always wondered what happened to my land!!

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
It's not your's anymore, it's mine :D:D
I can prove it with title to the house (and property tax receipts)
in Cadboro bay that my grandparents built 60 years ago.
If you feel it's yours, prove it [}:)]
 
quote:the province, appropriated the lands and issued title to the lands to other parties

I hear they have a bridge for sale in brooklyn that your family might be interested in. Maybe you all should have checked the legitimacy of the title before you bought? Not to worry though RS, It isn't the land we are after :D Perhaps you should take it up with the province and ask them why they sold to you land that was not theirs to sell?

quote:The key to launching the lawsuit was finding historical documents

Same thing happened when we sued for the land the parliament building is on, I don't know where they are finding these documents, but it is pretty cut and dry once we do! The only question now is how much it is worth! Any chance of you forwarding your property tax notices to me?

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
I should know better but can't resist,
the title is perfectly legitimate and will hold up in
any court of law.
if you own the land prove it...
squatter's rights won't cut it F/A.
 
We don't go to court if we have a 50/50 chance of winning. It is hard to deny evidence that is "written in stone".

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
Here's the bottom line F/A, your ancestor's may have been here before mine but they moved around a lot, according to where the best fishing,hunting and gathering occured.
They had no title to the land as there were wasn't such a thing, nor were there courts to decide rightful ownership.
My ancestors did not go away,(much to your distaste i'm sure) and through due process we now have rightful title to land that was bought and paid for.
You should probably get over your "I own the land" notion , and realize that your people will forever have to share Canada with other's that have just as much right to be here.
 
totally incorrect RS. Our first title to that land was written by James Douglas. The land in question was not bought or paid for but rather appropriated from my people and sold to whites, this was around the time whites thought they could do what they wanted and ship us off to where they saw fit, Now it is time to pay for the nearsightedness of your ancestors. I agree that they should have been the ones to pay, but as long as someone picks up the bill I'm happy.

As for having no title to the land I wish you could be shipped back into time, and be made a Coast Salish, before whites ever settled here and try to explain to the Kwakiutl that they didn't have any title to the land you were tresspassing on. They would have just ate you. Back then everyone knew where one territory ended and another started. We didn't need property markers, when your life was on the line if you didn't respect the others territory!

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
Then i guess your ancestors didn't do a very good job
of defending what was "theirs", when the Europeans arrived.
 
you know, the first nations will never move forward as a people until they stop fixating on the past. There have been plenty of settlements and many of the first nations people still live in poverty, one more settlement isn't going to solve the problems.

If the first nations would look at where they are in 2009 and where they want to go in 50 years they could begin to make choices that affect the future. Instead they are stuck in a negative mindset trying to hang on and fix the past.

Its pretty sad really.

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Win an 8-Hour WCVI Charter!
 
quote:Originally posted by LastChance
Well, if this treaty exists, it should be an open and shut case. If it doesn't, well, it wouldn't be the first time bad clerical practices cost someone dearly.
There must be something on paper somewhere otherwise it wouldn't be going to court.

billreidsalmon.jpg
 
Look back in anyones heritage and there were unfair hardships brought on by others. I mean blacks were not only pushed off their land but taken from africa for slaves! The list goes on and on all around the world.

Very very few are saying pay me for the hardships suffered by those before me? Or saying your land is technically mine give me it or pay me? They have moved on with their lives in a positive way. Sure these bad things happening around the world shouldnt mean this should be ignored but the mine mine attitude of some is not the answer.

Dont bother with the racist accusations as im not racist for questioning why natives should not be given equal rights like everyone else. I just dont get it? I also realize FA is trolling with jabs like he always does but its a good subject that most wont get into.
 
quote:If the first nations would look at where they are in 2009

Don't worry we certainly do look where we are at in 2009, in 2009 we have way more rights then what was granted to us 50 years ago, we are free to practise our cerimonies once again, we are the fastest growing segment of the Canadian population, our longhouses have never been so full, there are actually waiting lists!! We have found a way (against all odds) to beat the government time and time again by useing their own court system, we just had a Sea named after us, things are starting to turn around for us in 2009, Heck I can even leagly trade and barter my catch now too.

You are correct though, no single settlement will put us back on an even playing feild so it might have to be 5-10 settlements that do it!

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
quote:
We have found a way (against all odds) to beat the government time and time again by useing their own court system,

I like the wording. You didnt "get justice" you "beat the government". Is that all it is? sticking it to whitey? Its clear by your posts that are just mocking everyone who doesnt get special rights and that you are worried about getting more than actually fixing things. This is the mindset that frustrates most and is not just you and your troll posts that share the view.
 
Hmm… FA just might be right here?

Just so you know, in a simplified version: Douglas and the Songhees signed a treaty (contract) were the Songhees sold their land, which this is a valid contract and the geographic bounties’ are fairly well described and defined - Notice I said "fairly" well described and defined! Part of the treaty being their land settlement, Douglas then decides to use part of that land for other purposes removing the Songhees from the (their) land, without any treaty modifications, remuneration, or material goods given or received within any "provable" documentation. So, the conclusion - He did basically just “kicked them out” and “steal” their land in violation treaty rights.

If the land in question is part of that treaty and there is no proven documentation transferring rights – Canada will be getting their checkbook out and writing them another check on top of what they have already been remunerated? From April 1, 2006 through May 27, 2009 the Songhees have received $10,308,874.00 - not bad for 473 members! However, Canada has already written lot higher amounts and more checks, to other tribes (bands) than the Songhees. http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/prodis/grtcon/rprts-eng.asp

If not mistaken and unless there is a more recent information the Songhees are currently in phase 4 of re-negotiating their Douglas treaty – not bad timing on their part!
 
If all first nations people had this attitude, Canada could be
a very unpleasant place to live.
Fortunately for the rest of us, both aboriginal and non
this greedy attitude does not prevail.[V]
 
quote:If all first nations people had this attitude, Canada could be
a very unpleasant place to live.
Fortunately for the rest of us, both aboriginal and non
this greedy attitude does not prevail.

Oh so there was no greedy attitude when all the resources where being taken from the land? So there should be plenty of First Growth Forest left and lots and lots of salmon?.. Hmm where did it all go?

Take only what you need.
3641877346_d9919f98d0.jpg
 
Hmmm, nets in the Fraser river when the Sockeye are endangered,
and all other user groups are shut down.
I wonder where they are all going ?
 
Hey FA, you seem to have some time on your hands, did you ever deliver that second cord of word to Mr. Killer........? SS

seaswirlstiper.jpg
 
Back
Top