Something Wicked This Way Comes - ON THE LINE

It's the government.... I have heard from a reliable source that it is not if... It is when... That sad truth as it sits at this time.


Seen that vid a while ago... definitely good.

Agreed. I think it is important to pick the battles that we can win.
This is not one IMHO.
 
Not sure most of you got this email or not?

I thought I would post it for those up this way who did not but may be interested.

Dogwood Initiative

Hi Raymond,

We're coming to Courtenay and Parksville next week and we'd love to see you!

Last month we experienced a huge surge in support from all across the country. We had no idea that one of the biggest surges would come from the Comox Valley and Parksville-Qualicum. We now have over 3,000 supporters between Parksville and Courtenay!

You are in the right place at the right time. Your neighbourhood is going to heat up with activity as the Enbridge public hearings sweep through your riding.

Ben Porcher, our Vancouver organizer, and I are coming to town to visit in person to thank you for being a part of our growing network to protect the coast. We’d love to see you next week at one of these locations!

Courtenay
Zocalo Café on
Wednesday February 29th
3:00pm to 5:30pm.

Parksville
Pacific Brimm Coffee & Tea Company
Friday, March 2nd
10:00am to 11:30am

We’ll have material (like stickers and pins) to share and will be available to chat. It'd be great if you could drop me a line to let me know if you're coming, but it's fine to just show up, too.

Looking forward to seeing you.

For the coast,

Celine

Donate

https://www.gifttool.com/donations/Donate?ID=1745&AID=1273

Dogwood Initiative - PO Box 8701 - Victoria, BC V8W3S3
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The email address for you is raybeeman@hotmail.com
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MY thoughts on this are simple And this is coming from someone who has been exploring options that could one day have me finding myself employed by the very peolpe who would use that pipe.

I do not like it and I say no amount of jobs and money are worth the risk this project poses. There is no long term benefit to this except to those at the top of the food chain.
 
Well I think you guys underestimate power in numbers. This attitude of "why bother fighting, we won't win anyway" is exactly what they want you to think. Look at what happened with HST. Enough support from the people, and things can change. Maybe the change that we are able to get is only that they move the pipeline to a safer site for tanker navigation, or maybe they decide to pump it to the east coast. I don't agree with either of these options but I do think they are better than the current one. Anyone, don't be a pushover when something that is happening that you feel strongly against, fight it! In order to win, we will need to have all the support we can get. Hopefully it gets put to a national vote or something along those lines.
 
"There is no long term benefit to this except to those at the top of the food chain. "

I think this says it all. I absolutely am against this proposed pipeline so perhaps a way to slow or stop the juggernaut would be to make it so expensive as to be unpalatable to those who will reap the fiscal rewards.

Why not ensure that the provincial government adds a surcharge to every gallon of oil that travels across our province, said moneys to go directly to the people of BC as yearly bonus check (like Alaska). How about insisting that the corporations building and running any pipeline deposit a surety of say $1B into an account to be used to mitigate any spills. I'm sure we can think of a few more ways to add enough cost to this to make them think again. We need our provincial governments to get a little backbone and stand up for the citizens of this province. Why should all the money stay in Alberta?
 
Agreed. I think it is important to pick the battles that we can win.
This is not one IMHO.

This is one of the most defeatist, negative, weak kneed, shrug the shoulders, head in the sand, I don't care and why should you attitudes I have ever seen posted.
And this acquiescence to this monster comes just one year after the Gulf oil spill, the greatest oil pollution catastrophe of all time....so far!!

Fortunately there are dozens of groups and thousands of people in those links I posted and many others who will be fighting this one, simply because the impacts and consequences will be so huge, to us and those that follow in Beautiful BC. (If this goes through we will not be able to call BC that for very long........)

And in the worst case scenario I don't want to be looking away when future grand children ask me "Why did your generation let this happen?" At least I will be able to say, "I tried!"
 
im on board, but this is going to make the halibut battle look like childs play or fisher price, chalk another battle up on the long list for holmes...ive always said that i will put my life on the line if they try to start drilling fo oil off our coast, i guess this is just as close to the same thing......holmes*

Good on 'yer Holmes. Yep, this is as bad if not worse than off-shore drilling, because the "footprint" of the pipeline will cover over 700 rivers and steams as well, so a rupture there could affect or destroy the entire Skeena watershed.

http://skeenawild.org/conservation-issues/enbridge/

Yes, this will be long hard, tiring battle but one worth fighting. I'm gonna start my letter writing now and donations have gone to the organisations of my choice. Now I am retired I may also see if any of these groups need any volunteer time....
 
The Keystone pipeline was a 'sure thing' too until the people of Nebraska said NO! Stopped it in its tracks. Never say die when it's this important.
 
Some fights a worth fighting.
Been there done that right from elementary school.
Won't use any weapon but the pen and public protest.

So the admiral asked how we could reflect our values in our RRSP.
We also wanted to protect the value if and when another market correction came.
I'm sure that there are others that have been thinking this.
We went to the bank and looked at all our mutual funds.
Everyone of them had endbridge (sp en) in them.
So we looked at other products the bank was selling.
It seems that it hard to find a product that doesn't hold pipeline (enbridge or trans canada)
Finally found a mutual fund that meet our values and made the move.
Will see how it pans out.

Others that own endbridge in there RRSP could always ask them to quit this hare-brain idea.
Here is a chart of ownership and it looks to me that mutual funds own enbridge

A2FFC193-E185-4B99-B6CB-3A2FD1016AD4.gif

Where you see the "Public" are where the vast amount of the shares are in mutual funds.
As it's the season for RRSP's you probably have some documentation handy, so have a look to see if your one of the share holders. If so then what are you going to do?
GLG
 

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Did any of you ever consider the fact that the governments are going to pass this do to the fact that they will look at all the facts not the one sided views of paid misinformants but the true facts of this project. There won't be words used like "RIP THROUGH" you know why,, because there is no ripping through that goes on, not one river or creek will be ripped through,, they are bored under from far distances. Any lands that are used to place this line will be reclaimed and placed back to with in the strictest restrictions and extremely close to original. With the exception of some grazing areas for wildlife. Do you people really have any idea what you are talking about or are you relying on paid personal to give you your view. Whats all this crap about polluted oil sands ?? do you have any idea what goes on up there ?? and this coming from people that live in the lower mainland and gulf islands and the lower island, the most heavily populated area in probably all of Canada.. Believe me folks the carbon footprint of the lower mainland and gulf island far far exceeds anything that is happening up here in Alberta. What a bunch of hippocrates,, what a bunch of uninformed moronic ideals. You people truly have no clue,, no clue.. This coming from a site where all that is talked about is where you are running here with your boat and there with your boat and driving here and driving there,, what really !!! you want to talk about what we are doing out here,, you all better park you boats and grab some ores then you come and tell me I am a polluter !! All I am doing is feeding your filthy habits and keeping your toys full of fuel,, you f'n hippocrates.

Holmes and quite a few of the rest of you,, you survive off of Alberta oil money.. If it wasn't for us Alberta boys coming over there every summer and dropping our money off that bloody province of yours would be tits up. Where do you all think all that crap that is being shipped into your ports every day is going ? what do you think is keeping those office buildings and investment firms in Vancouver going ?? Do any of you really have a grasp on reality and what it takes to keep a country going, where money comes from to pay for all the infrastructure that you all demand every day. DO YOU HAVE A CLUE ???

Keep it up out there,, keep up the boycotts,, keep up the finger pointing,, we can find someplace else to spend our money. Holmes and the rest,, its all on here for us to read and spread the word at what lodge you work at,, its not hard to get the word out that the lodge you work at doesn't support any Alberta oil money,, no sweat boys..

..
 
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Since when do they bore a pipeline under a stream or river.
Do you have a link that shows them doing it.
http://www.enbridge.com/Norealis/Clearwater-River-Temporary-Bridge.aspx
edit to add link of what walleys posted.
Matter of fact I do know something about pipelines.
Inspected a few in my time.
Matter of fact I do know what Alberta means to this province.
Worked Alberta oil path for 25 years.
If you haven't noticed the main objection is in the tankers.
I'm surprised you think the risk to our salmon is worth this hare-brain idea.
GLG
 
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one more thing, walleyes, some of the undertones of your post seem like threats, dont even try and threaten me or anyone on this forum or in the hositality or fishing industry okay..

The hositality industry lol,,,,genius..

Don't threaten you why,, what you going to do,, shut down a lodge ooooohhhh now what.. And make no mistake about it,, the majority of the tourist money in your province comes from AB the vast majority of it. Keep pissin on the source boys,, keep pissin on the source.. Its all fine and dandy to threaten someone else's livelihood eh just as long as its not yours..

Don't worry boys,, the pipeline "WILL" get built,, we will make a ton on it and heck we may even throw a few crumbs your way in the meantime lol..
 
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popcorn.gif
 
Well Walleyes, Holmes and GLG have already answered your rant very well but here is my response.

On the contrary Walleyes you have swallowed so much of thecompany rhetoric along with the fat pay packet you boast of spending on us “poor hics” in B.C. that you cannot see beyond the $$.

What is all this about the polluting oils sands you say? This is from the wikipeadia article about this dirty subject :-

“Making liquid fuels from oil sands requires energy for steam injection and refining. This process generates two to four times the amount of greenhouse gases per barrel of final product as the "production" of conventional oil.[5] If combustion of the final products is included, the so-called "Well to Wheels" approach, oil sands extraction, upgrade and use emits 10 to 45% more greenhouse gases than conventional crude.[6] “
As for your other accusations:-
1. The pipeline is not about filling the recreational fishing boats in B.C. with gas it is about shipping millions of tons of bitumen to China!!
2. The so called economic benefits of this pipeline project are far outweighed by the risks and the consequences to the environment of those risks being realised. The people of BC will not sit idly by and accept those risks while you and the rest of Alberta stuff money in your pockets.
3. Whether or not the geology will allow the pipe to be buried under the river, there will be breaks that get into the rivers, just as it did in the Kalamazoo river in 2010, which has still not been cleaned up. Enbridge has had over 700 leaks in the last 20 years. How are they going to clean up a major spill in the wilderness. The answer is they can’t and won’t!
http://thecanadian.org/item/1262-enbridge-admits-there-will-be-spills-rafe-mair

But you clearly believe you are right and thousands of BC citizens who will suffer from the fall out of your company’s avaricious project are wrong. Instead, we should be grateful for your destructive project and all the lovely money you will bring. What a shocking and short sighted viewpoint. In the extremely unlikely event you can tear yourself away from counting your money for a while, here are a few links that demonstrate the extent and depth of this terrible project, though I doubt you will read them.

http://www.ecojustice.ca/standing-up-for-canada/?searchterm=pipeline
http://pipeupagainstenbridge.ca/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/01/18/bc-enbridge-deal-collapses.html
http://rabble.ca/news/2010/10/bc-municipalities-vote-against-enbridge-pipeline-and-oil-tankers
http://alexgtsakumis.com/2012/01/12...stopped-its-bad-business-for-the-environment/
http://www.pacificwild.org/site/take_action/enbridge-tankers.html
http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/10751-a-bc-referendum-for-enbridge-pipeline-why-not.html
http://thecanadian.org/item/1262-enbridge-admits-there-will-be-spills-rafe-mair
 
Very complex subject for sure, and I hope everyone can agree that there is a ton of biased, misinformation served up by both sides of the argument. No time to weigh in fully (wife wants the laptop to watch Coronation Street, lol) but wanted to post two quick points:

1) Sorry, Englishman, but Wikipedia is not a valid source of facts. Not saying any point you're trying to make is invalid, just that if you want to quote a fact source to support your argument you need to use something more rigorous as Wiki is sourced from you, me, Walleyes, Holmes, etc, etc and thus is subject to lots of misinformation, both intentionally and unintentionally.
2) Have to agree with one point Walleyes made in his post (rant?) - if folks want to send a message that O&G developments like the Enbridge, or any other, pipeline aren't welcome we should first stop our never ending thirst for oil. Think about this - Enbridge and Keystone pipelines are forging ahead based primarily on Western cultures dependence on oil. What happens when the likes of China, India and other emerging economies, whose populations dwarf the West, have the same consumption rates? The answer is obvious - we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg boys and girls!!
 
Someone kicked a hornets nest.....
Just been researching the pipeline water crossings.
Lot's of if's when they mention directional drilling to go under the rivers they cross.
I can tell you one thing they won't use this method for every river.


Water crossings

The current route crosses 773 active watercourses in Alberta and BC, ranging from very small creeks to larger rivers. Of these crossings, approximately 83 are deemed, by Northern Gateway experts applying DFO guidelines, to be high sensitivity crossings.

Today our pipelines cross hundreds of rivers both large and small, some of which include the Athabasca, Missouri, North and South Saskatchewan, Niagara and St. Claire rivers.

We use a variety of crossing techniques to ensure that our pipelines are safely placed and disturb the environment as little as possible during construction and provide maximum safety while in operation.

Northern Gateway has established a strategic watercourse crossings team to conduct detailed site surveys at difficult crossings to ensure they can be built responsibly and with minimal impacts. Already the pipeline route has been adjusted in some areas to avoid sensitive fisheries habitat and other natural resources.
A number of water crossing techniques will be used and must be approved by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, and the National Energy Board. Most of the watercourse crossings are very straightforward. Northern Gateway has established a strategic watercourse crossings team to conduct detailed site surveys at difficult crossings to ensure they can be built responsibly and with minimal impacts.

The following watercourse crossing methods will be used for the Project:

  • Open cut
  • Diversions
  • Isolation methods, including dam and pump, flume, coffer dams and silt curtains
  • Trenchless methods, including bore, horizontal directional drilling, aerial and micro-tunneling
In general, the pipeline will be buried deeper under watercourse crossings to provide additional protection. On average the pipeline will have a minimum depth of cover of 0.9 meters (3 feet). At watercourse crossings the pipeline will generally have a minimum depth of cover of about 1.5 meters.
For watercourses that are crossed using horizontal directional drilling, the depth of cover will range from about 30 to 100 meters.
There will be sections of the pipeline that require thicker walls for additional protection. This is usually done for watercourses crossed with horizontal directional drilling. The general pipeline wall thickness will be 14.3 mm. In sections requiring thicker walls, the thickness will range from 19.0 to 23.7 mm.
In Canada and the U.S., Enbridge operates the world’s longest and most advanced petroleum and liquids pipeline system. We move more than two million barrels of petroleum products through our pipeline system each day, and we do so according to the highest industry standards for safety and environmental protection.


Well I feel better that DFO will be the ones to give the OK to there river crossings. NOT

Been on a few river crossings up at slave lake on a 24 inch line.
Yup we used heavy wall tubing but just dug a big azz cut right through and dragged the prewelded pipe in.
Dump the spoil pile on top and we were done.
Will it leak? Nah I don't think so but when you run the pig check the wall thickness for corrosion would you.
GLG
 
I am staying out of this one. ON this board anyway. Only thing I am going to say is this. This pipeline has absolutely nothing, Nata,zilch to do with supplying domestic needs for gas ect. It is 100 percent meant to make it easier and cheaper to export the raw resource. this has been design to save costs,boost extraction and export and be done while creating and sustaining the fewest long term jobs as possible. thing to remember is they will still sell it with or without this pipeline so why not make sure we benefit more from it. Always makes me wonder how we as a nation can be exporting at the rate we are and yet the debt still rises and the folks selling it are still getting richer?

Just sayen
 
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