Sea Lice and Fish Farms

I posted a link to the State of the Ocean 2015 back in November. Here is a link to that post.



SALISH SEA COHO SALMON DECLINES – IS THE PROBLEM IN THE OCEAN OR FRESH WATER?
There is a paper in this pdf that looks at this question on page 209. It looks at Black Creek where they count smolts and returning adults. The takeaway is to look for the ratio of smolt to adult and that will tell you what is happening. I volunteer on a river that is very close to Black Creek and I'm finding similar results. IMHO the problem is in the SOG or when they pass by the fish farms. The question is, are the fish farms 100% of the problem..... I don't think so as it appears to me that it's a case of death by 1000 cuts. There are some cuts that we can do something about and some that we cannot. The trick is to know what to do and where we can make an impact. That's one of the reasons I support getting the fish farms off the salmon migration routes as soon as possible.
http://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/365564.pdf

Thanks guys or this report. Lots of interesting info!
The adult to smolt graph from black doesn't indicate a very consistent fresh water productivity pattern. Over 600 smolts per spawner some years then down to near ? on other years. Do you guys read that graph differently than me?
A little lesson for you when accepting conclusions from all these reports you keep posting. It is often the missing information that is most important. I cannot find any fresh water chemistry trend references used. There is no cross reference with the timing of dydimo blooms. Not finding any references with the invertebrate populations in streams either. Salmon eat, breath and reproduced in fresh water and nobody tests the chemistry of the water to see if it meets criteria for healthy ecosystems? The fresh water source originates in the sky and nobody has applied the effects of the changing rain chemistry to the salmon population status. Sorry but that report like the others lack a key scientific component and that is water chemistry. If it was applied there would be far different conclusions.
So if you choose to believe that water chemistry, invertebrates populations and algae changes do not effect fish populations and it is all about fish farms it is your choice. I think you are being a little gullibly.
 
[QUOTE="Fishmyster, post:
So if you choose to believe that water chemistry, invertebrates populations and algae changes do not effect fish populations and it is all about fish farms it is your choice. I think you are being a little gullibly.[/QUOTE]

No one blames Fish Farms for ALL our problems with the decline in most of our runs of salmon.
What we do recognize is Fish Farms with their sea lice and disease contribute to the problem.
The "choice" you refer to is to what extent do you believe Fish Farms play a part in that decline.
If you believe they play NO PART, then I would repeat your quote..."I think you are being a little gullibly"..I think you may have meant gullible?
 
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[QUOTE="Fishmyster, post:
So if you choose to believe that water chemistry, invertebrates populations and algae changes do not effect fish populations and it is all about fish farms it is your choice. I think you are being a little gullibly.

No one blames Fish Farms for ALL our problems with the decline in most of our runs of salmon.
What we do recognize is Fish Farms with their sea lice and disease contribute to the problem.
The "choice" you refer to is to what extent do you believe Fish Farms play a part in that decline.
If you believe they play NO PART, then I would repeat your quote..."I think you are being a little gullibly"..I think you may have meant gullible?[/QUOTE]

Yes I meant gullible.
I do believe fish farms have some impact on wild salmon but nothing to the extent of what you might feel.
Is this a bash fish farm thread or is it for discussion about sea lice and fish farms? I am not defending farms I am questioning the science used to concluded farms as being such a contributing factor.
So what % of the problem would you say stream chemistry and invertebrate populations might play into this deficiency in adult salmon returns?
 
Thanks guys or this report. Lots of interesting info!
Do you guys read that graph differently than me?
A little lesson for you when accepting conclusions from all these reports you keep posting. It is often the missing information that is most important.
Your welcome for the link to the report. I think it's great that you are interested in trying to find answers. That's something many of us are trying to do. I just have to point out that you need to look at that graph again and this time think about the Smolt to adult survival ratio over time. This to me is the most important point of this summary of the original paper. Here is what I think is the point the authors are trying to make.

1980's for every 100 smolts that left the river 15 adults returned
1990's for every 100 smolts that left the river 6 adults returned
2000's for every 100 smolts that left the river 2 adults returned

It does not seem to me that we can point the finger at the freshware as being responsible for the decline when clearly the evidence is pointing to something in the saltwater environment.

Here is a link to the original paper that this data was taken from.

Abstract
Understanding the factors contributing to declining smolt-to-adult survival (hereafter “smolt survival”) of Coho Salmon Oncorhynchus kisutch originating in the Salish Sea of southwestern British Columbia and Washington State is a high priority for fish management agencies. Uncertainty regarding the relative importance of mortality operating at different spatial scales hinders the prioritization of science and management activities. We therefore examined spatial and temporal coherence in smolt survivals for Coho Salmon based on a decision tree framework organized by spatial hierarchy. Smolt survival patterns of populations that entered marine waters within the Salish Sea were analyzed and compared with Pacific coast reference populations at similar latitudes. In all areas, wild Coho Salmon had higher survival than hatchery Coho Salmon. Coherence in Coho Salmon smolt survival occurred at multiple spatial scales during ocean entry years 1977–2010. The primary pattern within the Salish Sea was a declining smolt survival trend over this period. In comparison, smolt survival of Pacific coast reference populations was low in the 1990s but subsequently increased. Within the Salish Sea, smolt survival in the Strait of Georgia declined faster than it did in Puget Sound. Spatial synchrony was stronger among neighboring Salish Sea populations and occurred at a broader spatial scale immediately following the 1989 ecosystem regime shift in the North Pacific Ocean than before or after. Smolt survival of Coho Salmon was synchronized at a more local scale than reported by other researchers for Chinook Salmon O. tshawytscha, Pink Salmon O. gorbuscha, Chum Salmon O. keta, and Sockeye Salmon O. nerka, suggesting that early marine conditions are especially important for Coho Salmon in the Salish Sea. Further exploration of ecosystem variables at multiple spatial scales is needed to effectively address linkages between the marine ecosystem and Coho Salmon smolt survival within the Salish Sea. Since the relative importance of particular variables may have changed during our period of record, researchers will need to carefully match spatial and temporal scales to their questions of interest.
http://www.bioone.org/doi/full/10.1080/19425120.2016.1161683
 
I have no idea which rivers you are sampling but I hope that the increase in size is due to the increase in nutrients in those systems form returning pink and chum salmon.

The question I have for those rivers you speak of is if salmon farms are spreading disease how do spawning salmon return after going by salmon farms twice in their life and produce healthy offspring.
It is safe to mention that disease, bacteria and virus activity are quite different in fresh and salt water.
Again I don't know what rivers you work on so thats not much to work with.

Yes salmon have to pass by the fish farms twice and they can pick up "something" as a smolt and we would never know as there is no way to find a dead smolt in the ocean. Yes an adult can pickup "something" on the way back to their home river and they may survive all the way to their spawning bed only to become a per-spawn mort. Maybe that's why the decline of salmon has been noticed by us recreational anglers.....

Yes there are all kinds of bacteria and virus that are present in the ocean and not just in the salmon farms. Something changed in the saltwater and the evidence is in the paper I posted. The trend is clear and if we do not fix it then it's only a matter of time when we lose this resource. I for one will do what I can to turn things around..... what about you?
 
Thanks for your work in digging and explaining this, GLG!
 
why is it sea lice counts increase in the fall vs lower in the spring?
why are sea lice counts higher in inlets that have no farms vs lower in inlets where farms exist?
 
why is it sea lice counts increase in the fall vs lower in the spring?
why are sea lice counts higher in inlets that have no farms vs lower in inlets where farms exist?

do you have a study that shows this? if true, is it possible maybe the multiple tons of the poison Slice dumped into the environment by the farms have something to do with it? maybe the same reason the prawns and crab seem to be disappearing in the inlets that support fish farms...
 
while managing multiply fish farms in the 90's commercial prawners would constantly hug our pen systems and drop a string. they would also help themselves to our mort tote for bait
 
where is it on this coast that farms are now killing crabs. most farms are anchored well past the 200' zone. is it because there are no crabs there to start with?
 
Theres a farm near Tofino that was a good prawn spot before the farm went in and remains a good prawn spot having a farm there for many years. Sorry big dog I don't have a scientific paper available for your approval.

Its been common place for people to believe that each and every salmon farm is plagued with all the popular issues but that plainly isn't true. Where I work none of the farms have any measurable levels of sea lice for example due to low salinity and I know this is a fact in many other locations.
Many cycles of salmon never see medication because its not required.
 
many farms don't use slice either, because there are no lice around them....:(:(:( i farmed salmon and narrows inlet which are a closed system (skookumchuck narrows). i also had a farms in hotham sound which was plague by low DO every Aug. no sea lice problems so no need for control.
 
Your welcome for the link to the report. I think it's great that you are interested in trying to find answers. That's something many of us are trying to do. I just have to point out that you need to look at that graph again and this time think about the Smolt to adult survival ratio over time. This to me is the most important point of this summary of the original paper. Here is what I think is the point the authors are trying to make.

1980's for every 100 smolts that left the river 15 adults returned
1990's for every 100 smolts that left the river 6 adults returned
2000's for every 100 smolts that left the river 2 adults returned

It does not seem to me that we can point the finger at the freshware as being responsible for the decline when clearly the evidence is pointing to something in the saltwater environment.

Here is a link to the original paper that this data was taken from.

Abstract
Understanding the factors contributing to declining smolt-to-adult survival (hereafter “smolt survival”) of Coho Salmon Oncorhynchus kisutch originating in the Salish Sea of southwestern British Columbia and Washington State is a high priority for fish management agencies. Uncertainty regarding the relative importance of mortality operating at different spatial scales hinders the prioritization of science and management activities. We therefore examined spatial and temporal coherence in smolt survivals for Coho Salmon based on a decision tree framework organized by spatial hierarchy. Smolt survival patterns of populations that entered marine waters within the Salish Sea were analyzed and compared with Pacific coast reference populations at similar latitudes. In all areas, wild Coho Salmon had higher survival than hatchery Coho Salmon. Coherence in Coho Salmon smolt survival occurred at multiple spatial scales during ocean entry years 1977–2010. The primary pattern within the Salish Sea was a declining smolt survival trend over this period. In comparison, smolt survival of Pacific coast reference populations was low in the 1990s but subsequently increased. Within the Salish Sea, smolt survival in the Strait of Georgia declined faster than it did in Puget Sound. Spatial synchrony was stronger among neighboring Salish Sea populations and occurred at a broader spatial scale immediately following the 1989 ecosystem regime shift in the North Pacific Ocean than before or after. Smolt survival of Coho Salmon was synchronized at a more local scale than reported by other researchers for Chinook Salmon O. tshawytscha, Pink Salmon O. gorbuscha, Chum Salmon O. keta, and Sockeye Salmon O. nerka, suggesting that early marine conditions are especially important for Coho Salmon in the Salish Sea. Further exploration of ecosystem variables at multiple spatial scales is needed to effectively address linkages between the marine ecosystem and Coho Salmon smolt survival within the Salish Sea. Since the relative importance of particular variables may have changed during our period of record, researchers will need to carefully match spatial and temporal scales to their questions of interest.
http://www.bioone.org/doi/full/10.1080/19425120.2016.1161683

What about the green line on the graph? can you see it? The spawner- smolt ratio indicated a far greater variable from fresh water than marine! So rather than posting someone else's conclusion I would like you to explain in your own words how you figure 600 smolts per spawner down to ? has less effect than the marine survival.
I am also curios if you, AA, or FI think that chemistry or insects have any importance to fresh water smolt production??? If so to what % of influence would these factors have?
 
There is a study that confirms what you're saying ( I think) in that pdf link I posted. here is the link again.. check out page 167.

TELEMETRY-BASED ESTIMATES OF EARLY MARINE SURVIVAL AND RESIDENCE TIME OF JUVENILE STEELHEAD IN THE STRAIT OF GEORGIA AND QUEEN CHARLOTTE STRAIT, 2015
http://waves-vagues.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Library/365564.pdf

I wonder what is going on with Burrard Inlet? From the pdf...
"Survival of smolts released into the ocean near West Vancouver had three times higher survival to the northern Strait of Georgia than smolts released in the lower Seymour River, indicating that Burrard Inlet is a mortality hotspot."

was thinking more of a paper specific to the seymour river
it is on a server right now but i think it is this one: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0014779
we where discussing smolt survival out going last year. basically where did the fish go? i was trying to explain that fraser river fish are not getting to the deep ocean. but in fact being preyed on prior to entering the deeper water column. some look at the cormorants (largest nesting site is under the second narrows bridge at over 200 birds) other contributing factors: capilano hatchery pulls the plug on smolts every year on same day. seals are highly trainable animals and seem to line up at the mouth same time every year.the outgoing smolts are required to pass the mouth and could be have issues around this area.
 
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What about the green line on the graph? can you see it? The spawner- smolt ratio indicated a far greater variable from fresh water than marine! So rather than posting someone else's conclusion I would like you to explain in your own words how you figure 600 smolts per spawner down to ? has less effect than the marine survival.
I am also curios if you, AA, or FI think that chemistry or insects have any importance to fresh water smolt production??? If so to what % of influence would these factors have?

Hi FM.... first off what does the "figure 600 smolts per spawner" mean? without looking up the data I would say that not many adults returned so the eggs to smolt was rather good and may have to do with the load capacity that this river has. Fewer competition for the fry that did make it from eggs. My thinking is that few adults spawned and the eggs survived (more than normal) to smolt then when they went to sea and returned as adults. That's how I would interpret that ratio. I will poke around and see if I can find escapement data for Black Creek. I'm not discounting all your ideas but you need to look at all the evidence and make sure you keep an open mind.

What I'm reporting is not new info as we have known this for years and it's not even controversial in the hatchery community. Another troubling trend is the wilds are doing better than the hatchery smolts. You would think that it would be reversed because the hatchery fish don't have to compete for food and we control the water volume.

Cheers, GLG
 
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