Reposted from the "New Forum Rules" Thread....Conspiracy?!

Englishman

Well-Known Member
This level of reasoning isn't going to raise the quality of this forum at all. IMO This is private club one side of the fence conspiracy theorist thinking.

Some of the stuff that goes on here just makes me shake my head.

But if it is a private club now is probably a good time to say so.

Birdnest I find it utterly astonishing that you accuse this forum of being a private club harbouring “conspiracy theorists”.
This from a person who on other threads has personally denigrated and attacked Alex Morton, who believes she “conspires” with other reputable scientists to put out papers proving that salmon feed lots are harmful, and who indeed believes the National Academy of Sciences are part of the conspiracy in publishing what you dismiss as “gibberish”. Your words!!

Au contraire Birdsnest you are the biggest conspiracy theorist I have ever encountered and your latest accusation against folks who know the real science, is just incredible and unbelievable.
 
Birdnest I find it utterly astonishing that you accuse this forum of being a private club harbouring “conspiracy theorists”.
This from a person who on other threads has personally denigrated and attacked Alex Morton, who believes she “conspires” with other reputable scientists to put out papers proving that salmon feed lots are harmful, and who indeed believes the National Academy of Sciences are part of the conspiracy in publishing what you dismiss as “gibberish”. Your words!!

Au contraire Birdsnest you are the biggest conspiracy theorist I have ever encountered and your latest accusation against folks who know the real science, is just incredible and unbelievable.

I couldn't agree more Englishman! Birdsnest you are accusing Alex Morton of being a conspiracy theorist with a hidden agenda. I call her an extremely hard working scientist with limited funding who is doing more for wild salmon than anyone else. You sir seem to be the conspiracy theorist who clearly has his own agenda. Who pays your mortgage? You want to argue with science? Why dont you try telling us all that the world is only a few thousand years old too. Are dinosaur bones put here on earth by god to test our faith? No science has proven otherwise as well.
 
Would it be in the best interest of the forum and community to ban fish farm lobbyists? Not anyone who supports fish farms - just those who are paid to do so.

I don't think I've seen credible arguments against Alex's work just smoke and mirrors. Distract and annoy. Typical spin dr. Tactics.
 
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It would end up being a"witch hunt"which nobody here wants. I would just suggest the standard arguement but maintain a civil tongue. Name calling just lowers you to the idiot level. :)
 
I feel that refuting one persons scientific work isn't a personal attack. Further more, Alex has put herself in the public eye, I do support her work. So far those advocates of the Fish Farms have posted very credible arguments. So have Alex's supporters. This can continue for as long as it wants, but when the heat turns up and the names start flying I shut 'er down..
 
I feel that refuting one persons scientific work isn't a personal attack. Further more, Alex has put herself in the public eye, I do support her work. So far those advocates of the Fish Farms have posted very credible arguments. So have Alex's supporters. This can continue for as long as it wants, but when the heat turns up and the names start flying I shut 'er down..
Lastchance...
Sorry to hear you say the Fish Farms have presented a "credible argument" to their right to seriously threaten the survival of our wild salmon stocks and to attack a totally committed and knowledgeable person such as Alex Morton! FISH FARMS HAVE DIRECTLY THREATENED AND TRIED TO DISCREDIT ALEX MORTON AND ANY OTHER SCIENTIST WHO DISAGREE'S WITH THEIR POSITION THAT DISEASED FISH FARM SALMON DO NOT PRESENT A THREAT TO WILD SALMON. MOST WOULD CALL THAT AN ATTACK!!
I can put up with the sometimes irrational, uninformed, rude and useless comments that come up on this form from time to time, as there are many who have something valuable to contribute, BUT I cannot put up with an informed person such as yourself supporting Fish Farms.
I have no problem with Fish Farms having the right to access and post on this site, but for you of all people to say that they have a "credible argument" is too much for me to take.
THAT'S IT FOR ME...I WILL NOT BE POSTING ON THIS SITE AGAIN, UNLESS I SEE A MESSAGE FROM LASTCHANCE THAT SHOWS HE MADE A MISTAKE IN HIS POST SUPPORTING FISH FARMS.
 
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Lastchance...
Sorry to hear you say the Fish Farms have presented a "credible argument" to their right to seriously threaten the survival of our wild salmon stocks and to attack a totally committed and knowledgeable person such as Alex Morton! FISH FARMS HAVE DIRECTLY THREATENED AND TRIED TO DISCREDIT ALEX MORTON AND ANY OTHER SCIENTIST WHO DISAGREE'S WITH THEIR POSITION THAT DISEASED FISH FARM SALMON DO NOT PRESENT A THREAT TO WILD SALMON. MOST WOULD CALL THAT AN ATTACK!!
I can put up with the sometimes irrational, uninformed, rude and useless comments that come up on this form from time to time, as there are many who have something valuable to contribute, BUT I cannot put up with an informed person such as yourself supporting Fish Farms.
I have no problem with Fish Farms having the right to access and post on this site, but for you of all people to say that they have a "credible argument" is too much for me to take.
THAT'S IT FOR ME...I WILL NOT BE POSTING ON THIS SITE AGAIN, UNLESS I SEE A MESSAGE FROM LASTCHANCE THAT SHOWS HE MADE A MISTAKE IN HIS POST SUPPORTING FISH FARMS.

LOL!

You sure have your mind made up
 
Fogged in,

I admire your passion but it seems to me that you read into Last Chances post a little too much. He stated that he is a Alex supporter.

MS
 
However, if the discussion is with those external parities that are here to do damage control such as fish farm operators or quota owners, I don’t have a problem with being a little less diplomatic (especially with those who like to disguise themselves as anglers) but will try to be civil. Better to destroy their arguments and point out their self serving nature. They are relentless though aren’t they? That is to be expected as they are paid to be here (Lobbyist/PR hacks) or otherwise make money off it (employees, quota owner’s etc), so of course they are motivated.

My comment
This level of reasoning isn't going to raise the quality of this forum at all. IMO This is private club one side of the fence conspiracy theorist thinking.
is about your comment above and nothing else. I was enquirering if this forum was a private club.



I am not saying morton is conspiring to do anything. It is very very clear that her goal is to shut down salmon farms period. She does this under the title of wild salmon advocate. This is where I think she fails. Conveniently for her there is no other ngo organization that defends wild salmon so she is a shoe in for the job but the only issue she addresses is salmon farms which is a large distraction from so many things that are going on. If she was truly a wild salmon activist, imo, she would be highly suspicious/concerned about other factors but you will not ever hear a pep from her about anything else but salmon farms. On the other hand I believe that if there was such a ngo group that did address all the issues they sure would not have any support for they would be pointing the finger at all the user groups. Its a traditional mechanism of the fishery debate that is not going away because of greed.
 
Fogged in

I would suggest giving LC a break on this one and taking your ball and going home does not help anything so I hope you stay active. There has been too much of that which I see as the equivalent of using an A-bomb to kill a fly (make a political point). I understand your position on Fish Farms and share them but issuing ultimatums and withdrawing is not going to help our fish. So do the fish a favor, cool down and stick around.

It is not my place to speak for LC but I took it as him just trying to give both sides of the issue some strokes to facilitate and encourage a civil debate. Moderators are referees in a sense and it seems reasonable for them to try to project some degree of neutrality. Perhaps he could have chosen his words a little differently but he said he supports Morton. That is good enough for me.
 
Lastchance...
Sorry to hear you say the Fish Farms have presented a "credible argument" to their right to seriously threaten the survival of our wild salmon stocks and to attack a totally committed and knowledgeable person such as Alex Morton! FISH FARMS HAVE DIRECTLY THREATENED AND TRIED TO DISCREDIT ALEX MORTON AND ANY OTHER SCIENTIST WHO DISAGREE'S WITH THEIR POSITION THAT DISEASED FISH FARM SALMON DO NOT PRESENT A THREAT TO WILD SALMON. MOST WOULD CALL THAT AN ATTACK!!
I can put up with the sometimes irrational, uninformed, rude and useless comments that come up on this form from time to time, as there are many who have something valuable to contribute, BUT I cannot put up with an informed person such as yourself supporting Fish Farms.
I have no problem with Fish Farms having the right to access and post on this site, but for you of all people to say that they have a "credible argument" is too much for me to take.
THAT'S IT FOR ME...I WILL NOT BE POSTING ON THIS SITE AGAIN, UNLESS I SEE A MESSAGE FROM LASTCHANCE THAT SHOWS HE MADE A MISTAKE IN HIS POST SUPPORTING FISH FARMS.

I would happily apologize for supporting fish farms had I actually posted something supporting them. Seems I made reference to the long list of sources that someone posted who has a different view on farms and is a critic of Alex and her work. That is what I called a credible argument. Seems I stated I suport Alex and her work. Also seems that I was one of the co-ordinators of the fund raiser that hosted ALEX MORTON to screen her new movie. Seems I also had lunch with the woman on Feb 28 to learn more about her cause. And hey, I even had a hand in raising money for her at the SVIAC AGM on Feb 28.

Pointing out that someone went to great lengths to list references for their post to me indicates the attempt to make a credible argument in this thread, NOT TO DECIMATE THE COASTWIDE FISH POPULATION.

Seems that maybe there was an atempt to put words in my mouth. Our whole push to get farms off of the coast will go nowhere without defensible credible data, and cool calm presentation of our facts. Alex is going to garner nothing but support with her new work, and there is currently a plan in the works for a few local people to organize a large scale screening of her new movie, which I am personally involved in setting up. Pretty clear I am not?

If you mis interpreted what I posted, I hope this clears it up for you. All of us concearned about the future of BC Wild salmon must be united, calm and prove our case.
 
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Conveniently for her there is no other ngo organization that defends wild salmon so she is a shoe in for the job but the only issue she addresses is salmon farms which is a large distraction from so many things that are going on. If she was truly a wild salmon activist, imo, she would be highly suspicious/concerned about other factors but you will not ever hear a pep from her about anything else but salmon farms. On the other hand I believe that if there was such a ngo group that did address all the issues they sure would not have any support for they would be pointing the finger at all the user groups.

??? Are you kidding me? Alex has chosen to focus her efforts on salmon farms because that is what has personally effected her in her home in the Broughton's when she moved there. Just because she focuses primarly on learning/researching/reporting on viruses and diseases tied to fish farms doesn't mean that she isn't aware of the many other serious issues facing wild salmon on our coast (global warming, overfishing, habitat degradation, etc).

No other NGO organizations that defend wild salmon? I pulled this from psf.ca. took me 10 seconds to search

The Pacific Salmon Foundation was established in 1987 as an independent, non-governmental, charitable organization to protect, conserve and rebuild wild Pacific salmon populations in British Columbia and the Yukon Territory.

The Foundation:

Raises money and makes grants to volunteer organizations that work on behalf of salmon across the province – $9 million invested in volunteer-driven salmon projects that have engaged more than 35,000 volunteers.
Manages multi-million dollar initiatives in the Skeena and Fraser River watersheds in partnership with industry, provincial and federal governments and other foundations.
Advances scientific and evidence-based solutions to challenges facing wild Pacific salmon.
Serves as a voice for conservation and restoration of wild Pacific salmon and the ecosystems that depend on them.

It would be refreshing if before you post something you actually took a few seconds to think about it really ask yourself if you are seriously convinced in what you are about to post. I'm sure you are bright enough to do a quick internet search to find out that much of what you post is pure rhetoric. That said, now that I've been around this form long enough I've come to learn that you are not interested in actually getting anything resolved but just here to stir the pot. It would be a much more fruitful debate if you just stayed out of it IMO. I'm all for differences of opinion as long as people are willing to back up their claims... that just isn't your style apparently.
 
I am not perfect. geesh. One slip up and I am a forum disgrace? really? Thank for the info. I am willing to be corrected.
Unfortunately I am not the person who is going to provide refreshing insight to the debate. I can only know so much. In the past here those who could provide more than my self were simply told off, called shills, etc etc. How convenient. I think the new forum rules are not really going to change things either.

Our whole push to get farms off of the coast will go nowhere without defensible credible data, and cool calm presentation of our facts.

I agree with the above quote which is why it is important to invite conversation. Not shun those who have apposing views. And I do not think you have to be perfect/flawless human being or a scientist to participate although it is good to have such personality's included.
 
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I would happily apologize for supporting fish farms had I actually posted something supporting them. Seems I made reference to the long list of sources that someone posted who has a different view on farms and is a critic of Alex and her work. That is what I called a credible argument. Seems I stated I suport Alex and her work. Also seems that I was one of the co-ordinators of the fund raiser that hosted ALEX MORTON to screen her new movie. Seems I also had lunch with the woman on Feb 28 to learn more about her cause. And hey, I even had a hand in raising money for her at the SVIAC AGM on Feb 28.

Pointing out that someone went to great lengths to list references for their post to me indicates the attempt to make a credible argument in this thread, NOT TO DECIMATE THE COASTWIDE FISH POPULATION.

Seems that maybe there was an atempt to put words in my mouth. Our whole push to get farms off of the coast will go nowhere without defensible credible data, and cool calm presentation of our facts. Alex is going to garner nothing but support with her new work, and there is currently a plan in the works for a few local people to organize a large scale screening of her new movie, which I am personally involved in setting up. Pretty clear I am not?

If you mis interpreted what I posted, I hope this clears it up for you. All of us concearned about the future of BC Wild salmon must be united, calm and prove our case.
Short question, please give a short answer please
Did you not say
the Fish Farms have presented a "credible argument"
 
LOL splitting hairs man...
 
Short question, please give a short answer please
Did you not say
the Fish Farms have presented a "credible argument"

Dude, I hate fish farms, but proponents can still have a credible argument. It's called debate. And Moderators can't pick sides, so you barking up the wrong tree my friend.
 
Short question, please give a short answer please
Did you not say
the Fish Farms have presented a "credible argument"


'creditable' in the sense that Birdeye posted links to articles he was referencing to. Not just spewing off at the mouth (like someone on this thread) with no back up for what he was saying he believes in. You are offside.
 
To be honest I feel like the farming debate is like so many others with the truth lying somewhere between two bias sides.
 
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To be honest I feel like the farming debate is like so many others with the truth lieing somewhere between two bias sides.

Yes man... Its like watching FOX for political info and only believing what you see :eek:
 
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