Raincoast

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sadly poaching is increasing as with the population. its a small protection in place on an animal not responding well to human encroachment. ....

We have guns and ammo stores on #3road in richmond in full Chinese. Then google the amount of poachers caught with names like "xi jiping" and maybe take your fight someplace else.
Jeeeezus RT, I don't even know where to start with these completely incongruous statements. If I get this right, you are stating that since Richmond is full of Chinese buying guns, and that since Google says that the majority of poachers are Chinese, we should ban Gbear hunting? OK that was a new wrinkle I never expected to hear from .....well .....anyone really.
 
Just my opinion here , but I think you have it backwards Reel Time. The poaching will not slow down one bit. The value of grizzly parts will skyrocket if they aren't available to be hunted legally in any way. If the government would just use a bigger percentage of the money hunters pump into the system for habitat restoration instead of throwing it at some stupid social program , the population would thrive.
 
Just my opinion here , but I think you have it backwards Reel Time. The poaching will not slow down one bit. The value of grizzly parts will skyrocket if they aren't available to be hunted legally in any way. If the government would just use a bigger percentage of the money hunters pump into the system for habitat restoration instead of throwing it at some stupid social program , the population would thrive.
If anything, poaching will now increase, as those areas where legitimate hunters used to be will now be free of those eyes and ears. Less people in the poachers areas will mean poaching just got even easier. And considering the black market price for GBear parts just went up substantially, poachers will be more inclined to take risks in order to shoot bears and get those parts.
 
Jeeeezus RT, I don't even know where to start with these completely incongruous statements. If I get this right, you are stating that since Richmond is full of Chinese buying guns, and that since Google says that the majority of poachers are Chinese, we should ban Gbear hunting? OK that was a new wrinkle I never expected to hear from .....well .....anyone really.

Ya I'm staying out of this one before I sound racist, although we do identify more foreign poachers than not. I do have one comment to make, I feel Trophy hunters in BC have led to this ban more so than the emotional city vote. We have watched youtube videos of hunters having a big laugh after shooting a bear and watching it do the death spiral, or shooting bears while they tumble down a hill and hearing jokes and laughter. If its a true sport, better stewardship in making videos that go viral and do affect those with emotion. When you kill an apex predator, many people do so with respect and do use most of the animal. Unfortunately we witness way too much waste in this sport and occasionally disrespectful killings of people laughing while an animal is probably in severe pain.
 
I'm not a hunter, and I'm a bit of a greenie around the oil/gas debate and a lefty as far social programs are concerned, but I do have extensive scientific training and an unfortunate tendency to see both sides of an argument. It's easy to see that this decision is based on emotion and political positioning rather than science. The mostly metropolitan ridings where the government's power is centred have little knowledge of or connection to hunting and will either applaud the change or be apathetic to it. For the NDP, this is one of the easiest to fulfill of their many campaign promises, as the negative response to it will come from relatively few people, and those few are widely dispersed and largely living in ridings held by the opposition. For the government, it's easy gain for little pain. This is reality in the political arena, and decisions like this happen constantly over the years, and governments of all parties will do it when they see political gain to be made despite factual evidence to the contrary (long gun registry implementation and dismantling, cuts to parks and scientific research, mandatory minimum sentence legislation, and many more...)

The science doesn't matter as the waters have been amply muddied by years of emotive pleas for the banning of grizzly hunting. The message to the public has been consistent and repetitive: grizzlies are under grave threat, the hunting is unnecessary, trophy hunting is especially bad because the meat isn't used (I guess the animals and insects that make so many meals from a bear carcass don't count). A few environmental organisations have made a concerted effort in the past decade to push these messages and you have to say they've been effective, even though misguided. They've constantly used the label 'trophy hunting' to the point where the media uses it for all mentions of grizzly hunting. It's devastatingly simple - deeply judgmental without the casual user even realizing it. Most people have no idea that the grizzly population is stable and that hunting is carefully monitored by wildlife biologists as a tool to help maintain balance in the ecosystem, as well as providing constructive social and business opportunities.

Members here need to understand one key aspect that drives the thinking of those of the green persuasion: 'managing' the environment. For many who identify as eco-friendly, there is a core belief that the natural world must be preserved exactly as it is now. That means not killing anything, plant or animal, unless it's perceived to be an exotic or pest species. Furthermore, man is evil and we must somehow remove or reduce our influence from the Natural World. Never mind that ecosystems have always been dynamic and constantly changing and that we can prevent those changes about as easily as we can hold back the tide. The eco lobby is deeply suspicious of any type of environmental management, unless it is in the form of parks management (which consists of stoutly preventing all development and reducing human presence to only the fit and deserving). They generally perceive forest management, fishery management and wildlife management to be unnecessary, unnatural and corrupted by business interests. "Back in time, there was no such thing as wildlife management, and everything was fine. All we need to do now is stop killing the animals/trees/fish and everything will be fine again." They are suspicious of the management systems we do have in place, convinced that they are a cover operation for Big Business who rape the land and steal our grandchildren's inheritances. There's certainly some bad examples in the past of natural resource management - like all the introduced species that were supposed to solve a problem but ended up causing much larger ones - but the opposite approach of banning everything is equally misguided.
 
I think looking at this you have to separate emotion from facts. Its not just what happened to bear hunting. Its that there was scientific evidence that wasn't taken into account. The NDP and greens just wanted to please the NGO groups. If you guys want harvests of seals , and to keep fisheries than you need to pay attention to what just happened. The NGO groups are dangerous, and are actively kicking our butt with lobbying the right people. I keep saying this over an over. If they have there way all hunting and fishing will be over. Be very very careful to read between lines on this one, and stop clicking on Facebook post/filling out questionnaires and associating with them. I am not a hunter, but I don't agree people that don't hunt trophy bears need to be punished. I also thing it is not fair to take those rights away from others , and say that native groups can hunt them. That isn't fair. If there isn't any hunting than that means everyone.
 
oh man I was listening to CKNW today covering the grizzly bear closure. The people calling in were something else, It even got down to the point where are fishing should be closed also because even catch and release causes fish pain and just like hunting wounds animals.

This was caller after caller too all just hammering it home. The media and NGO's have won the battle...
 
Guides and outfitters and Leh,s were a tool to help manage populations of coastal grizzlies. Based on what I have noticed over the years, the last time the government halted grizz hunting in the inlets across from Campbell River and held an x year moratorium to count the bears province wide, the big males killed and drove the smaller ones out to look for new territory, they started to swim. Outfitters man used to balance that pretty good, in my opinion anyways. It will definitely will be interesting to see how they flourish on vancouverisland with the fish rivers up and down both sides and all the elk in Between! I’ll have my 5$ ready for the all new 2021 fall Vancouver Island grizzly LEH draw
Or perhaps there should be a moratorium and stop LEH for rosevelts, because we need to ensure adiquate food supply’s for the new emerging bearwatching industry on VI?
 
There is an exceeding close parallel between what just happened with BC Grizzlies, and historically with California Mountain Lions.
In 1990, the government finally calved to the pressure being brought by various NGO's, most notably the HSUS, to have a complete ban placed on the hunting of Mountain Lions statewide. There as well, it was widely recognized that overall the State's population of the big cats was doing well, and under no threat from hunting whatsoever. But those who held themselves morally aloft from the people who actually went out of doors carried the day...

Over the years since, the number of problem incidents with the cats jumped. Many had to be destroyed.
Some went so far as to enter the sacred urban areas, much to the dismay of those who had sued for their protection. Many more were killed.
Livestock depredation jumped exponentially (and continues to be a significant issue today). More deaths.
The State's population of bighorn sheep was so decimated they hit the Endangered Species List directly due to the increase in cat numbers. More taken out.
Mule deer populations plummeted, no surprise that 68% of their mortalities were brought about by the cats. More killed.

On and on, around and around it goes. To any with an open mind, the declines of ungulates, attacks on humans & livestock and encroachment on urban areas all fall to one suspect - the lack of direct management of the cats themselves. BUT, HSUS and their colleagues foam at the mouth and drive their legions into a frenzy whenever any discussion of that possibility is introduced. And being California, they carry the day. The CO service gets stretched overly thin dealing with problem cats. More livestock are killed. Deer and sheep populations continue to fall. Negative human interactions level off at rates much higher than before the ban. And no amount of killing by the CO's can possibly keep up with the cat's population increases...

Interesting read for any who wish to look into the California matter: https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/the-political-spiral-of-mountain-lions-in-california#gs.ZX1LQ_k

Not difficult for most I would guess to see the direct parallels here.
A shame most can't wrap their minds around the need, at this point in time and into the future, of management via Science, and not uninformed emotion...

Cheers,
Nog
 
Like I said NOG giving an apex preditor free reign is never a good idea and never ends well.

Fest vs famine, I don’t agree with this but is seems most ENGO”s do.
 
And now this will be used for Killer Whales.

And you really think they will allow killing those brown eyed seals who are killing 50 % of the salmon?

And as noted by the people who called into CKNW, let’s stop killing and playing with salmon so the seals and Whales have enough.

There will be NO SCIENCE involved.

And you who fight this will be labeled as animals.
 
Last edited:
Heck, we should save all the Bears ! Reintroduce/Introduce Grizzlies to Stanley Park and Beacon Hill Park so urbanites can enjoy the experience. Might have to close the petting zoo though lol.
 
Could there be money to be made of nuisance Grizzly bears? Say when one needs to be shot by a CO, why not send it to a ranch and have a lotto hunt for a trophy hunter to kill it. Would still have the entitlement to the kill. ...

slightly facetious comment as I rekon the sport is diminished.
 
And now this will be used for Killer Whales.

And you really think they will allow killing those brown eyed seals who are killing 50 % of the salmon?

And as noted by the people who called into CKNW, let’s stop killing and playing with salmon so the seals and Whales have enough.

There will be NO SCIENCE involved.

And you who fight this will be labeled as animals.

Your correct this decision is really bad for the killer whale issue. It shows government will move on emotion, and not science.
quote-save-the-trees-save-the-bees-save-the-whales-save-those-snails-george-carlin-63-94-19.jpg
 
Last edited:
A good read, lots of very well written comments that spell it out better than I could. At least some on here understand what just happened and the tidal wave that has just started. Like I said before if WE do not unit we will loose our sports. Those that are trying to finish our lifestyle and get upset at a dying bear FEEL the same about, wolves, cougars and most other hunted game species, as some stated , do you think they will stop for the killing of salmon, we need to feed the endangered whales?

HM
 
There is an exceeding close parallel between what just happened with BC Grizzlies, and historically with California Mountain Lions.
In 1990, the government finally calved to the pressure being brought by various NGO's, most notably the HSUS, to have a complete ban placed on the hunting of Mountain Lions statewide. There as well, it was widely recognized that overall the State's population of the big cats was doing well, and under no threat from hunting whatsoever. But those who held themselves morally aloft from the people who actually went out of doors carried the day...

Mule deer populations plummeted, no surprise that 68% of their mortalities were brought about by the cats. More killed.

A shame most can't wrap their minds around the need, at this point in time and into the future, of management via Science, and not uninformed emotion...

Cheers,
Nog

Quotes from alt-right redneck hunting journalist with absolutely no credibility are not science. Mountain lion deer kills are estimated at about 30,000 per year the CA, well within what the population should be able to sustain, and steep drops in deer declines started long before the mountain lion hunting ban (30 years before - seems like the time of population booms?) . There were actually some bounties paid on lions at one time. California has significant issues with habitat degradation as millions of people move there. In 1950 there were 10 million people, by 1990 30 million, and now about 40 million. Its estimated 75,000 acres of prime deer habitat per year was lost throughout the 80s and 90s, slowed during the great recession, and has sped up again, all lost to low density housing. On top of that decades of excessive fire supression measures to protect sub-urban and rural areas have degraded additional deer habitat. There is significant human hunting pressure coinciding with the large population increases in CA as well, and you can add in climate change (droughts). To blame ungulate declines solely on the statewide estimated population of 4,00-6,000 big cats when there are other factors is just scapegoating nonsense.


CalPopTrend.jpg
 
There is an exceeding close parallel between what just happened with BC Grizzlies, and historically with California Mountain Lions.

Interesting read for any who wish to look into the California matter: https://www.gohunt.com/read/life/the-political-spiral-of-mountain-lions-in-california#gs.ZX1LQ_k

Nog

So we've gone from "decades of peer reviewed science" to quoting gohunt.com as what people should base their opinions on?

I read the article, and the links in it, and its CRAP spewed by a pro-hunt website.

And of course, the SCIENCE behind any decision is always sound.

I'm sure I'll see all the same posters on this tread supporting all the past/present/future DFO decisions, because of the decades of peer reviewed science telling us fish farms do not harm and there are often too many fish trying to spawn which is a bad thing so the commies need to take more, and on and on and on.

Like I posted before, us effing latte sippers could be swayed if there was any reason FOR the grizzly hunt.
Still waiting for anything other than "I want to kill a grizzly".
 
Ah Yes. Cristina Mittermeier who along with her crew, filmed the very disturbing (and extremely sensationalist) dying moments of a crippled Polar Bear in order to appeal to the ignorant southern masses about global warming. A shame that the best Polar Bear Scientists in the world immediately called her out for what she is, and the filming as the sham it is. Wouldn't give that self entitled biotch the courtesy of swerving ;)

The notes on the bears, and the Inuit hunting them though are both correct, and fairly relevant. I lived a rather long term in the Western Arctic, and can relate rather strongly. Many of my buddies up there were hunters, and several among the best bear hunters anywhere.

There are many parallels between the Polar Bears, and the Grizzlies of BC.
Fortunately those in the Arctic are still managed via Science, as they should be.
Unfortunately for their southern cousins, science has been tossed out the window...
Effing latte sippers...

Nog

Your posts have deteriorated into emotion led follies ironically similar to the emotion led left wing views you seem to be worried about. I mean seriously someone doesn’t like the taste of bear (brined and pepperonied for a reason) and you give the guy a one page rant.

As for the above post, I think you should do some research on Cristina. I’ve worked a lot with her and she has done an immense amount for our environment, even if you disagree with the grizzly stance.

The video wasn't posted by SeaLegacy claiming a starving Polar Bear is the sudden new result of climate change. The video is pointing out that species are at risk due to climate change and Polar Bears are one of the first species affected. This will become a more common sight moving forward and it takes a video like this for the average person to realize that and start the conversation. People seemed to have struggled reading between the lines on that one.
 
Last edited:
Grizzly hunters really seemed to have shot themselves in the foot on this one. I saw it first hand on the central coast when hunters would roll into river estuaries and shoot the predictable big boars that local bear viewing companies relied on. Yes they were legal hunts but they pissed a lot of powerful people off and it was inevitable that this was going to happen.


I have to agree however that this is a slippery slope. Fishing and hunting have a place in BC and it is certainly coming under threat. Everyone seems to be so far left and right these days that it’s painful to even try and get into a logical discussion. No matter what you say, you’re a liberal hippy or a conservative redneck...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top