Raincoast

Discussion in 'General Open Forum' started by IronNoggin, Nov 30, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    And Here We Go...

    "Purchasing the remaining commercial trophy hunting rights in the Great Bear Rainforest, coupled with the province’s ban on grizzly hunting, is a significant step towards our goal of ending all large carnivore trophy hunting on the coast."

    "The sale guards against future shifts in government policy that could reverse the ban on grizzly hunting, while also ensuring that trophy hunting interests cannot continue the recreational hunting of black bears, wolves, cougars or wolverine."


    https://www.raincoast.org/2017/11/n...arge-carnivores-in-the-great-bear-rainforest/

    So out of touch...

    Sadly,
    Nog
     
  2. halimark

    halimark Well-Known Member

    I wrote long ago Nog that Grizzlies are the first and beginning. These crazy out of touch people have no clue, do not care about any species only that hunting stops, I was told last night to stop swearing at the news. The rep for "raincoast" stated that now the "sacred spirit bear" will also now not be hunted. Last time I read the BC hunting Regs they have been protected for some time, but for lots of ignorant BC residents I am sure they are all happy now that the special color phase black bears are safe. This is worldwide, a new ballot in Arizona to stop all cat hunting, (lynx, ocelot and cougar) all but 1 have not been hunted in years but their names are on the ballot. Why=emotional ignorant people vote.

    I thought that there was a clause in the guiding territory contracts that state that the species given must be harvested. How else will the government receive royalty fees, tag fees and the economic spin off from visiting hunters.

    BC and our Government made the latest Safari news letter, not in a good way. Our way of life will now change, sad day for bears, hunters and BC. I will now add my BC grizzly money to my next African safari. Getting the urge and Zim is calling me back. Hippo/croc next, must do before it all ends. At least some good news, look what Mr Trump has done for the US sportswomen and men=so far awesome.

    HM
     
    IronNoggin likes this.
  3. sly_karma

    sly_karma Well-Known Member

    I'm not a hunter but a campaign to end all carnivore hunting is just nuts. It took decades for Yellowstone to reverse the damage done by the elimination of wolves from the park, but park officials have stated clearly that they accept there must be predator control in the future to keep things in balance. Too many top predators is just as bad for an ecosystem as none at all.
     
  4. Reel Time

    Reel Time Active Member

    I support sustainable hunting.... just wonder how its a sad day for Bears. Made me laugh thinking of a Bear hearing the news and getting upset.
     
  5. halimark

    halimark Well-Known Member

    Hello Reel Time

    Sad day for bears for a few reasons, science has proven that removal of older males within allowable levels (less than 6%) of population actually increases populations of bears within their ecosystems. Bears practice infanticide, now the older males will be safe at the expense of cubs. There is no species in the world that has regulated sport hunting, using the North American Wildlife Model that is danger of the species extinction within that area, its the opposite proven all over the world. Many species NOT hunted are in danger of extinction. Hunter $ provide worth to the animals hunted and all species in the hunting area. If you had a bear damaging your back country cabin and the area outfitter has a client paying $40 000 US to hunt a bear, it has worth. No client could equal dead and forgotten bear. Last with our grizzly bear populations increasing and already at carrying capacity in most areas, (verified grizzly's on Vancouver Island has meaning) human conflict will play a greater roll in more dead bears. Ontario proved that with black bear seasons. Managing our wildlife by emotion is a proven disaster for the species. Undeniable scientific fact.

    I just wish the NDP/Greens were smarter or had some backbone and managed all species for the benefit of the species and not some emotional anti hunter who cares nothing about bears other than filling his bank account. Has anyone thought how much impact and disruption the "bear watchers" have on the bears, where is all the garbage going from this new tourism in the great bear rainforest? There is no reason that all usage types on our bears could not be done. Let me write the questions for the next BC poll and send to all eligible voters, not a select few antis. I say again, this is the beginning, the antis will stop at nothing. Think fishing is safe???? How about the averted lead ban for all fishing weights?

    HM
     
    Sculpin, IronNoggin and CVmike like this.
  6. Reel Time

    Reel Time Active Member

    Not disagreeing with your points. I worked forestry and believe black bears breed like rats when space is opened up for them, ok with hunting on certain species that co-habitat well. I believe Grizzly bears will vanish themselves as population expanse happens. Ie: Grizzly bears extinction from Mexico, then California, Oregon and vanishing in Washington. They stress out easy from habitat loss and development. So maybe they need that last minute protection just incase? Who knows, maybe your right and they will eat their babies to death before we can kill all the big males. But whats one governments ban over the course of 4 years or more? Before a new government overturns it? Its Science, just trial and error and study the effects.
     
    happy hooker likes this.
  7. sly_karma

    sly_karma Well-Known Member

    The flip side of the coin is the constant calls for deer culls in numerous interior towns. The emotional types try to convince everyone else that the deer are aggressive and out of control - "something must be done before someone gets hurt!" Human are binary creatures. If it's bad, kill it. If we like it, preserve at all costs regardless of the facts.
     
    Sculpin likes this.
  8. halimark

    halimark Well-Known Member

    Reel Time

    You missed the part on the 6% allowable removal, this is not only hunting, trains, roads and nuisance kills are included, about 300 per year. They will do what grizzly's do, facts just state there are more bears in a habitat if a few older males are removed. BC/We must be careful, our NDP/Green are making policy based on a very few loud emotional people. Think fishing is safe. Lets do a pole should BC close salmon fishing because there are not enough for treaty requirements and whales will be extinct very soon. That's another thread.

    Our "blood" sports are under attack, if we want to keep our way of life we fight or play golf, cards and soon even sit on the front porch with a liquor store reefer if you want.

    WTH

    HM
     
    Sculpin likes this.
  9. Reel Time

    Reel Time Active Member

    It is pretty awesome to witness a massive Grizzly Bear in its natural setting. So I dont mind some areas being preserved and some areas open to hunting. The Coastal Grizzlies are a easy hunt for poachers, they will walk right into a bullet, so its not really a sport and mine as well have it preserved. Otherwise, I agree with your view.
     
  10. california

    california Well-Known Member

    So its "good" for the population to remove the dominant older males, the ones that have emerged as the fittest individuals and are handing their naturally selected genetic traits down to the next generation. Its messed up logic like that that necessitates organizations like this buying up hunting rights.
     
  11. Reel Time

    Reel Time Active Member

    We could shut all wild trophy hunts down and grow big animals on a farm, and allow those who get trophy hunt hard-ons to go get their fix. The planet is smaller than ever today and small areas preserved are a last ditch effort to maybe see these bears in the wild for another 100 years.
     
  12. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    Reel Time & California...

    Let me guess...

    Millennial, Trudeau Lib supporters, or at bare minimum BC NDP or Green.

    If you ain't you certainly sound like them... ;)

    Cheers,
    Nog
     
    Thunder21 likes this.
  13. halimark

    halimark Well-Known Member

    Thanks Nog

    People showing that they have no real idea. Misled by the media, I implore you 2 to read, investigate and inform yourselves of the scientific truths and none biased proof of the scientific bear management BC has undertaken for many years. California, suggest you read my post, I stated twice that the allowable harvest number is 6%. Not sure how you miss quote or wrangle that into your statement, its your messed up twisting of what was actually stated X2. Reel Time, not sure how you equate a sexual deviant statement into hunting and conversation, you both sound like PETA members. Sad, those ideas from persons on here who fish, why not eat atlantics from net pens or meat from raised animals? Because people who hunt and fish are the best conservationists, we care. Look at the facts not your emotions. Is that a "trophy" fish in your avatar Reel Time?

    I say again, if we all do not unit we are finished, problem is some will never get it.

    HM
     
    Sculpin and IronNoggin like this.
  14. california

    california Well-Known Member

    Funny your generalization of anyone with a different opinion- Me: 50s, only ever voted Conservative federally, and the non-socialists in BC, never NDP or greens. While I don't have a particular problem with all hunting or fishing, being generally conservative leaning doesn't mean I'm a supporter of trophy hunting to appease the desire of a few to prove their machismo by killing animals with big teeth or claws , particularly Grizzly bears or wolves (from a safe distance with a high powered rifle of course) . I have relatives who hunt, I've tried bear meat - awful, but I do admit to enjoying Deer and Elk that a relative had.

    I have no desire to unite with Hallmark on trophy hunting of carnivores in BC, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, even on this forum. Your position supporting killing these animals for sport is the one becoming more and more marginalized . Ill side with the environmental NGO's on that one, just as I do with their opposition to fish farms.

    Hallmark says Reel Time and I are "Misled by the liberal media" - kind of a generic Trump like generalization that requires no thought. Maybe Eric and Donny Jr. killing for trophies are your boys. Here they are "helping" out the ecosystem in Africa. You've also adopted their tactic accusing anyone opposed to the trophy killing as PETA activists.

    https://www.snopes.com/donald-trumps-son-game-hunting-photos/

    I guess I could make generalizations about the two of you, that will probably be as untrue as yours of me, so I'll refrain from doing so. Instead I'll realize their are different views on different issues and you are certainly entitled to yours.


    Cheers,
    California
     
    sly_karma and Dave H like this.
  15. halimark

    halimark Well-Known Member

    We are alike with age and political party, I am not accusing or generalizing, its proof with your statements and clear misinformed knowledge that you have no idea of what trophy hunting IS responsible for worldwide. You condemn and opinionate people with no knowledge. How many trips to Africa have you paid for, have you seen first hand what "trophy" hunting has done in Africa, New Zealand, Texas, Argentina? Where trophy fees go, daily rates, and all the regs involved, I have been to Africa purely to hunt 4 times, so fully understand what is happening. You are saying that you know more than the worlds top scientists??? Look up the latest CITES conference. The worlds top wildlife scientists stated that regulated sport hunting is the best, safest way to ensure species survival in the world today. Look it up, it may not be what you want to hear but its the most viable way for saving many species. Is it coincidental that Country's that outlawed sport hunting have fewer animals left shortly after than Country's who welcome and support sport hunting. Research Kenya, Namibia, and Botswana among others, it clearly proves you have no idea. My sons first deer was a trophy to him and was a 2 point, be careful of who's definition of trophy is.

    If you read the scientific data on grizzly bear hunting in BC, the latest top scientists just stated that the current policy (before Nov 30) and kill % to include all man caused known bear deaths were within limits. The Government themselves stated their decision is against science and is based on emotion. You have no idea how dangerous this is for a species, hunting and fishing. I do not expect to change your mind or even get you to read to become informed as you cannot even read and get my name on this site correct.

    PS-The trophy fees and hunt for the Trump leopard cost an estimated $25 000 US, all but around $6000 stays local, it pays for anti poaching patrols, bore holes, local community involvement, work for locals, and cash for every goat and cow killed by leopards, this is all mandated while hunting in a safari area. Gives value to the cats, in none hunting areas the local communal people receive no money or incentive to increase populations, the cats are poisoned, snared and killed to raise more goats. How much did you pay/donate to support the worlds wildlife? Hunters prove their willingness to pay, yes 1 may die to save many others.

    HM
     
    finaddict and IronNoggin like this.
  16. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    That statement pretty much sums up the ignorance of all the rest you wrote...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My last bear was so "awful" we used every single ounce of him. ;)
    The hams are currently being brined, so I'll post a picture of them once smoked...

    Oh, and the Rancher whose land this was shot on proudly accepted my gift of the hide, and is having that turned into a marvelous rug. As far as the head goes, that will soon be a feature object in my dungeon - a "trophy" of sorts to remember the hunt by in the coming years.

    I'd suggest you be bloody careful in your insinuations about what motivates people, and the reasons why they do things. With your "machismo" focused pointing, you are in effect well describing your stance, and just how misguided that actually is.

    I see no need to reiterate what halimark wrote above, but will strongly suggest you read that over several times, and try to ingest what is being stated. He is bang ON the money.

    I have been to Africa three times. I sat on the CITES Board as a rep for Canada. And I have been directly involved in sustainable use and hunting for well over 40 years. Due to that, I base my opinions directly upon experience, rather than opinion. Big Difference. If you want to keep wearing the blinders of ignorance, feel free. But please spare me your misinformed opinion and subtle insinuations which all appear to be based upon anti produced drivel.

    Thanks,
    Nog

    A man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with an opinion.
     
    finaddict and Sculpin like this.
  17. triplenickel

    triplenickel Well-Known Member


    Google is your friend, you're wrong in this case.
     
  18. california

    california Well-Known Member

    "I'd suggest you be bloody careful in your insinuations about what motivates people, and the reasons why they do things. With your "machismo" focused pointing, you are in effect well describing your stance, and just how misguided that actually is."

    Hmm. perhaps take your own advice before classifying someone with your ignorant labels (most of your ilk down south would say Libtard). Halimark has good points on Africa, main reason for the Trump boys link was there accusations of anyone against what they do as being PETA, which I am definitely not. I agree there are many areas in Africa where unfortunately the government agencies are impoverished, and allowing trophy kills is a necessary evil that does fund enforcement which would not be possible otherwise. Its a balance, as some areas are able to finance such enforcement through ecotourism, others are not, or not fully. Sometimes the animals are more valuable alive.

    As for NGOs buying up hunting rights here, that's their right to do so, and if they can raise the funds for protection of certain areas to do it, more power to them. There is no necessity to hunt carnivores in BC from an ecological or financial standpoint. You can band together with your hunting buddies and buy those rights if you wish, or crowd fund it or find a rich donor. I don't advocate closing down all black bear hunting in any case. but certainly do for grizzlies. Regardless of if the population can sustain a take of 6%, a debatable scenario (Forgive my skepticism of government agencies in figuring out what sustainable harvest is based on Salmon, cod.....). You can insult me as much as you like, really doesn't alter the fact the tide is all against Grizzly trophy hunting in BC, and against carnivore hunting in general. Guys like Clayton Stoner helped in that battle by hacking that Grizzlies head off to take "triumphant" , and yes machismo fueled trophy shots.

    Happy you use all the bear you killed, would be even more of a shame if that animal wasn't used. I don't personally like the meat, but of course that somehow sums up my ignorance.....or yours?
     
    Dave H likes this.
  19. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    Once again well showing your complete lack of understanding of wildlife management. [​IMG]

    Yep, you are doing a very fine job of defining that for all of us to see...

    [​IMG]

    Carry on...
    Nog
     
  20. GLG

    GLG Well-Known Member

    I was looking for something on this gov website that had nothing to do with this thread when I ran across this. Thought I would post what I found here. I suspect a few fellas are aware of it but it's good background to those that may not have read it before. It does not surprise me that the threats to these bears is not from hunting.

    An Independent Audit of Grizzly Bear Management
    http://www.bcauditor.com/pubs/2017/independent-audit-grizzly-bear-management
     
    Sculpin and IronNoggin like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page