Poll - Sport Fishing and Salmon Stocks

[1stLite]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Despey I work for a lodge and I find what you wrote about a lodge highly offensive yes some of our clients do get there limit but we do not keep fish for the next group and to say something like that and too group all lodges like that is ignorant for one it doesnt happen alot that may be what YOU think but it isnt true, we turn into a C&R fishery and we may take a few for us guides but we definatly do NOT keep fish for the next GROUP.


Wolf

Some of the lodges do play by thr rules you are right but others do not.I have seen lodges that let their guests keep their limits twice a day and every day. What ever they have over their possesion limits goes to the cannery and get shipped to the customer at home.With the offshore fishing as good as it is if you can get out there your pretty much garanteed to limit on everything.

 

[1stLite]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

Despey I work for a lodge and I find what you wrote about a lodge highly offensive yes some of our clients do get there limit but we do not keep fish for the next group and to say something like that and too group all lodges like that is ignorant for one it doesnt happen alot that may be what YOU think but it isnt true, we turn into a C&R fishery and we may take a few for us guides but we definatly do NOT keep fish for the next GROUP.


Wolf

Some of the lodges do play by thr rules you are right but others do not.I have seen lodges that let their guests keep their limits twice a day and every day. What ever they have over their possesion limits goes to the cannery and get shipped to the customer at home.With the offshore fishing as good as it is if you can get out there your pretty much garanteed to limit on everything.

 

[walleyes]

I'd like to know where concerned angler gets his info from when he makes a quote saying most people in Canada would give up all fish and wildlife to the natives,, what the hell rock did you crawl out from under ?? if anything the tables are turning on the native people. All you have to do is cruse around a few chat sites and people have had enough. The abuse by these so called keepers of the land has never been more apparent and spoken of do to all the communication that is available these days. The people that built this country, pay for this country, run this country will always have a say, if not a revolution is still never out of the question, and I don't necessarily mean with weapons but remember with western separation you're treaty rights will be null and void.
People are getting sick and tired of struggling to keep ahead and make something for themselves while another race of people loath in self pity and live off of sponging off of their hard work. If you think I'm wrong look at some over seas news papers sometimes most countries think Canada is a fool for giving in to native demands and not doing more to force natives to be accountable for the situation they have put themselves in.
The time is coming and the free ride is just about over, they better get ready, and buy some work boots and gloves. i.e ( they sell them at marks work warehouse)

 

[walleyes]

I'd like to know where concerned angler gets his info from when he makes a quote saying most people in Canada would give up all fish and wildlife to the natives,, what the hell rock did you crawl out from under ?? if anything the tables are turning on the native people. All you have to do is cruse around a few chat sites and people have had enough. The abuse by these so called keepers of the land has never been more apparent and spoken of do to all the communication that is available these days. The people that built this country, pay for this country, run this country will always have a say, if not a revolution is still never out of the question, and I don't necessarily mean with weapons but remember with western separation you're treaty rights will be null and void.
People are getting sick and tired of struggling to keep ahead and make something for themselves while another race of people loath in self pity and live off of sponging off of their hard work. If you think I'm wrong look at some over seas news papers sometimes most countries think Canada is a fool for giving in to native demands and not doing more to force natives to be accountable for the situation they have put themselves in.
The time is coming and the free ride is just about over, they better get ready, and buy some work boots and gloves. i.e ( they sell them at marks work warehouse)

 

[Rum Buddies]

well I don't believe natives are getting a "free ride", there are many road blocks set up that hinder development of the native communities and I think they will need help for some time longer.

That being said, if a run of fish is in trouble it should be protected, end of story. If they don't have the foresight to limit their harvest then someone else needs to. Having rights to a dead river is about as useful as rubber lips on a woodpecker.

 

[Rum Buddies]

well I don't believe natives are getting a "free ride", there are many road blocks set up that hinder development of the native communities and I think they will need help for some time longer.

That being said, if a run of fish is in trouble it should be protected, end of story. If they don't have the foresight to limit their harvest then someone else needs to. Having rights to a dead river is about as useful as rubber lips on a woodpecker.

 

[Despy]

What I was trying to point out is that there are bad eggs in every basket. Some logging companies are quite concientious when logging near streams and others could care less. Some natives will concern themselves with getting enough fish to last the winter and others are looking to get every salmon they can so they can sell them as a source of beer money.Some river fisherman will spend hours trying to entice a salmon to strike and others aren`t above snagging them. Some lodges play the game by the rules and some don`t.I`ve been to both !!

 

[Despy]

What I was trying to point out is that there are bad eggs in every basket. Some logging companies are quite concientious when logging near streams and others could care less. Some natives will concern themselves with getting enough fish to last the winter and others are looking to get every salmon they can so they can sell them as a source of beer money.Some river fisherman will spend hours trying to entice a salmon to strike and others aren`t above snagging them. Some lodges play the game by the rules and some don`t.I`ve been to both !!

 

[PinchMe]

Great debate, I'm pegging A (this is the tough pill to swallow),C (come on, they've reached the finish line to spawn another generation, leave 'em be) & D (this is the easy one)... something must be done now.
PinchMe

 

[PinchMe]

Great debate, I'm pegging A (this is the tough pill to swallow),C (come on, they've reached the finish line to spawn another generation, leave 'em be) & D (this is the easy one)... something must be done now.
PinchMe

 

[Red Monster]

Wally, I think you're shooting the messenger. [xx(]

Angler is indeed cynical (as am I) about what's going on, but he's much more realitic too. For example, Harper said he was going to address the problem of the race-based fishery out here. Has anything changed since he made those statements? No. Will anything ever change? I doubt it.

Let's not confuse wishful thinking with reality. Better we agree that things are seriously messed up and then try to work together for solutions?

Pappa, I loved you're Woodpecker simile.
Got any more?

 

[Red Monster]

Wally, I think you're shooting the messenger. [xx(]

Angler is indeed cynical (as am I) about what's going on, but he's much more realitic too. For example, Harper said he was going to address the problem of the race-based fishery out here. Has anything changed since he made those statements? No. Will anything ever change? I doubt it.

Let's not confuse wishful thinking with reality. Better we agree that things are seriously messed up and then try to work together for solutions?

Pappa, I loved you're Woodpecker simile.
Got any more?

 

[Last Chance]

Another idea here. Why not figure out what the natives have been harvesting from the rivers each year, buy it on the market, and GIVE it to them. Yes, this would have a small cost, but what is that worth compared to them hitting the fish while they are spawning, getting the best fish that have survived everything only to be snagged in some net and (sometimes) left to rot on a lawn somewhere. Just drive through the reservations along the Cowichan and Koksilah rivers in Ducan a few times to see the substantiation behind my last point.

I'm willing to bet that the cost of a few tonnes of processed or otherwise fish purchased on the market is worth the cost of research, and fisheries enforcement regarding the native fishery. Whatever anyone thinks about the native fishery in the rivers with nets(I myself am very opposed to it), it is part of some deal made with them a long time ago, and a deal is a deal untill it is mutally changed by both parties to it.

Perhaps another change to the sitation is to allow them to harvest the river fish using only traditional means, IE, using nets made out of cedar bark, standing on little platforms and netting them, and of course, spearing them. They did not have nylon nets in traditional fisheries, nor jet-boats to go fishing. The indirect but important by-product of this would be the added difficulty in attaining the fish, resulting in better escapement, and perhaps better use of the fish themselves.

Of course, the native fishery draws a lot of scruitiny because it is very visable, and does target the fish at the most important time of their life, which is, reproducing.

On another note, what if the only way you could get certain fish was sport-caught, IE, hire a guide or operate a sport-fishing boat.. I imagine that, assuming fishing was restricted near rivermouths, that hook and line fishing would be a lot less likeley to decimate the run of an entire creek then a well-placed seine net.

Some new ideas to add to this back-and-forth debate here.

 

[Last Chance]

Another idea here. Why not figure out what the natives have been harvesting from the rivers each year, buy it on the market, and GIVE it to them. Yes, this would have a small cost, but what is that worth compared to them hitting the fish while they are spawning, getting the best fish that have survived everything only to be snagged in some net and (sometimes) left to rot on a lawn somewhere. Just drive through the reservations along the Cowichan and Koksilah rivers in Ducan a few times to see the substantiation behind my last point.

I'm willing to bet that the cost of a few tonnes of processed or otherwise fish purchased on the market is worth the cost of research, and fisheries enforcement regarding the native fishery. Whatever anyone thinks about the native fishery in the rivers with nets(I myself am very opposed to it), it is part of some deal made with them a long time ago, and a deal is a deal untill it is mutally changed by both parties to it.

Perhaps another change to the sitation is to allow them to harvest the river fish using only traditional means, IE, using nets made out of cedar bark, standing on little platforms and netting them, and of course, spearing them. They did not have nylon nets in traditional fisheries, nor jet-boats to go fishing. The indirect but important by-product of this would be the added difficulty in attaining the fish, resulting in better escapement, and perhaps better use of the fish themselves.

Of course, the native fishery draws a lot of scruitiny because it is very visable, and does target the fish at the most important time of their life, which is, reproducing.

On another note, what if the only way you could get certain fish was sport-caught, IE, hire a guide or operate a sport-fishing boat.. I imagine that, assuming fishing was restricted near rivermouths, that hook and line fishing would be a lot less likeley to decimate the run of an entire creek then a well-placed seine net.

Some new ideas to add to this back-and-forth debate here.

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by Backatit


LOL


Perhaps its time for a Pub Night to eliminate the fearless posts the anonymity of the internet promotes.

Replace anonymous Internet posters by some beer-fueled, good old fasioned bellowing and chest beating! Looser of the debate has to get LastChance's bar tab

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by Backatit


LOL


Perhaps its time for a Pub Night to eliminate the fearless posts the anonymity of the internet promotes.

Replace anonymous Internet posters by some beer-fueled, good old fasioned bellowing and chest beating! Looser of the debate has to get LastChance's bar tab

 

[newhali]

i wonder if the reason a renfrew guide would want limits lowered in their area is so they can get there thousand bucks and be back at the dock by noon.

Your Post is like trolling for problems. Please refrain from this type of posting as you know or should know this is an uncalled for remark towards guides.

The SFBC Moderators

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by newhali

i wonder if the reason a renfrew guide would want limits lowered in their area is so they can get there thousand bucks and be back at the dock by noon.

This has whole thread has been an excellent debate, and shows many sportsmen have been responding very POSITIVLEY to restraint in terms of limits and restricted fishing in one form or another. I do not wish to stir things up, so I deleted my post.

The whole point to that post was that maybe by taking conservative measures, I can STILL BE A RENFREW GUIDE in 30 years because there will be FISH there (And Renfrew has a capital "R"). I think that the general jist of my post was a rollback of limits everywhere, using Renfrew as an example. Bamfield, Ucluelet, Tofino, Winter Harbour, and the whole Nootka Sound arear are some other examples.

Reducing limits would be kind of like preventing what happened to most of the Cowichan Bay Guides, or should I say, to the fish that most of them used to target. Not many of them guide in that area anymore because there are fewer fish there. Unless an entire productive salmon run was misplaced, chances are the delicate ballance of fish going to sea and fish returning to the river was upset somewhere, somehow.

Seems not too long ago there was an awesome fishery in Brentwood Bay. Sansom Narrows used to boast a fishery to compliment the Cowichan Bay fishery itself. Is it a coincidence that these examples of awesome fisheries were right beside large population centres, boasting large numbers of fishermen, who, be it sport, commercial or native could easily exploit them. Maybe that is why there are lots of fish on the West Coast, because it hasn't been for the last 10 or 15 years that people have gone over there to fish for them en-masse (That means "in large numbers").

So, as far math goes, when more people compete for the fish, something must be done to keep the total number of fish being caught in check.

So, it appears that the math would dictate that if you have more people competeting for the same number of fish, you would reduce the total number of fish they can take as a whole, leaving more of them in the ocean, where they could return to rivers, reproduce, and, ta-da, make MORE fish to keep us Renfew fishermen as a whole coming back to the docks with the experience of a good day of fishing behind them.

 

[dohboy]

lastchance i dont think the moderaters had a problem with your post just the response newhali gave your post, i believe that most guides out there are law obiding guys that if anything are a good mark on how the fishery is holding up, you guys spend everyday on the water, so who knows better as what's going on than you, (maybe that is the problem some of us are jealous that we arent on the water everyday)but i do agree with lastchance that we should reduce limits, i have been at Renny when guides are coming in(and just the regular joes) and i wonder how long halibut can last at the rate they come in, i like the idea of a limit for total finfish, do people really need to limit out on 3 or 4 species of fish , and who hasnt seen it done.i have or should say had friends like that, after they got limit on salmon want lingcod or bottomfish , then crab, and prawns if lucky as well, and i am not talking about guys that only get out once or twice a year, guys who fish at least once a wk. who can eat that much seafood(I personally only eat one meal a day of it not 3, lol)
well i am done rambling on now [^]

 

[fishman69er]

Well after scrollin through the post and seein some, well , good points, and some ,well, bad points, and some of the most ridiculous remarks that i have ever seen, i thought i would give my thoughts and let you crows have your way with it, lets look at the complete shut down of fishing all together, is this from rivers or chuck?, for my purpose i will use the rivers seein how thats what i fish, first look at the ECVI, the steelhead has been shut down for years and that has not helped the numbers enough to re-open the fishery, but to make my point with out goin to much into a rant as i have been known to do, i think the only chance the sport fishery has is enhancement, its funny how nobody suggested that, mabye because it was not a choice, well the original post was definalty a loaded gun but i am glad to see that it was pretty much under control, but we should definalty get into the native fishery debat a little more and lets see things really heat up, My thoughts, they want their rights and ways, well give them a spear, and a tree (to make a canoe),take the 250 merc and the silver steak away and let them have at it, wow , i bet half of them would starve, or they would just go buy some fish off their uncles that sell all the fish they get to the white guys up the road. Well i have said to much, another thing you should always do is practice C&R, that helps as well, one more point before i go oh never mind, just another can of worms for later