Poll - Sport Fishing and Salmon Stocks
- Thread starter totally tyee
- Start date
T
The Penguin
Guest
A,C,D,E
Unless drastic steps are taken now including reducing the native take, and the commercial take as well as bannning draggers and seiners completly
the fish stock will not recover period end of discussion.
sicentists say that the entire ocean will be barren in 50 or so yrs given the current rate of fishing world wide
I also include tough measures to protect spawning rivers/creeks as well as forcing farmed salmon farms to be built on shore with adequate filtration to reduce dieasease transfer
Unless drastic steps are taken now including reducing the native take, and the commercial take as well as bannning draggers and seiners completly
the fish stock will not recover period end of discussion.
sicentists say that the entire ocean will be barren in 50 or so yrs given the current rate of fishing world wide
I also include tough measures to protect spawning rivers/creeks as well as forcing farmed salmon farms to be built on shore with adequate filtration to reduce dieasease transfer
P
Pablo2079
Guest
Concerned Angler - So, are you saying there is no hope?
Maybe the First Nations fishing rights should be treated like the land claims.... just pay them to give up their claims. Or, possibly pay them to "modify" their claims and have them be subject to the same closures commercial and sport are today.
I would hope they see the writing on the wall too and would be willing to negotiate. How much would we need to pay? Could the money come from commercial and sport fishing licences or the salmon stamps? Probably not even close to the amount they'd want, but I'd rather see the money go to buying them out than to the general fund.
We need to think out of the box!
Maybe the First Nations fishing rights should be treated like the land claims.... just pay them to give up their claims. Or, possibly pay them to "modify" their claims and have them be subject to the same closures commercial and sport are today.
I would hope they see the writing on the wall too and would be willing to negotiate. How much would we need to pay? Could the money come from commercial and sport fishing licences or the salmon stamps? Probably not even close to the amount they'd want, but I'd rather see the money go to buying them out than to the general fund.
We need to think out of the box!
Degree of Freedom
Active Member
Concerned Angler 
...what's with the attitude, this is a thread asking for opinions on solutions to help</u> the problem...no one's saying the problem will be fixed</u>.
As for my understanding of the Constitution...I'm not about to get into a pissing match over who's more educated or intelligent.
The government is motivated by money and votes...they are getting neither from the FN.
I am not under the impression the the FN fishery is the primary cause of the declining fish stocks, but they do take a significant number of fish from the rivers...fish that are hours away from spawning.
...what's with the attitude, this is a thread asking for opinions on solutions to help</u> the problem...no one's saying the problem will be fixed</u>. As for my understanding of the Constitution...I'm not about to get into a pissing match over who's more educated or intelligent.
The government is motivated by money and votes...they are getting neither from the FN.
I am not under the impression the the FN fishery is the primary cause of the declining fish stocks, but they do take a significant number of fish from the rivers...fish that are hours away from spawning.
Wow, good debate. There is definitely no perfect answer here, but strictly choosing from the list I would have to go with D. I have lots of other opinions...many of which have already been brought up...
I also thing total yearly bag limit has to be reduced to maybe 10 or so Chinook...at the VERY most. 30 is ridiculous. That, plus some coho (don't forget about sox & chum) is more than enough for anybody. If you are trying to feed a big family, bring some of them with you for the increased limits...not to mention the experience.
It's clear that most on here are mainly chuck fishermen (I am too) but I don't think we could/should ever totally cut out the river guys. I believe there should be selective fisheries on enhanced hatchery rivers where those populations can handle it (stamp, vedder, etc), and leave the wild rivers alone (where necessary) for a full salmon cycle. (6 years in my opinion - except the handful of systems with 7 year fish - Whonnock, Kilbella, etc). We need to put more effort into enhancement to provide more harvesting opportunities...the US seems to do a better job of this than we do.
I don't think shutting down winter spring fishing would have any measurable effect, and I would sooner see people on the water keeping an eye on things, and providing reports...because DFO clearly doesn't have our waters covered well enough, and I often question their studies. I believe they have alot to learn from fishermen...they just need to learn to work with us a little better.
Do you know that IGA is selling Chum fillets from CHINA that are caught in the north pacific? The package calles them "wild pacific salmon". Ours are used for their roe, cat food and fertilizer. Why do I rarely see Canadian chum on the shelf?
I think we need to farm salmon (we farm everything else we eat) but we need to do it much more responsibly - in tanks, etc.
While sporties are definitely part of the problem I believe there are even bigger commercial and FN issues have to be addressed, and Canada and the US have to do a better job of managing our shared resource together...but I don't have time for that can of worms right now.
Cheers, Jay
I also thing total yearly bag limit has to be reduced to maybe 10 or so Chinook...at the VERY most. 30 is ridiculous. That, plus some coho (don't forget about sox & chum) is more than enough for anybody. If you are trying to feed a big family, bring some of them with you for the increased limits...not to mention the experience.
It's clear that most on here are mainly chuck fishermen (I am too) but I don't think we could/should ever totally cut out the river guys. I believe there should be selective fisheries on enhanced hatchery rivers where those populations can handle it (stamp, vedder, etc), and leave the wild rivers alone (where necessary) for a full salmon cycle. (6 years in my opinion - except the handful of systems with 7 year fish - Whonnock, Kilbella, etc). We need to put more effort into enhancement to provide more harvesting opportunities...the US seems to do a better job of this than we do.
I don't think shutting down winter spring fishing would have any measurable effect, and I would sooner see people on the water keeping an eye on things, and providing reports...because DFO clearly doesn't have our waters covered well enough, and I often question their studies. I believe they have alot to learn from fishermen...they just need to learn to work with us a little better.
Do you know that IGA is selling Chum fillets from CHINA that are caught in the north pacific? The package calles them "wild pacific salmon". Ours are used for their roe, cat food and fertilizer. Why do I rarely see Canadian chum on the shelf?
I think we need to farm salmon (we farm everything else we eat) but we need to do it much more responsibly - in tanks, etc.
While sporties are definitely part of the problem I believe there are even bigger commercial and FN issues have to be addressed, and Canada and the US have to do a better job of managing our shared resource together...but I don't have time for that can of worms right now.
Cheers, Jay
Red Monster
Well-Known Member
Why vent on ConcernedAngler? He's only telling folks the sad truth: The FN are indeed claiming in courts of law, in treaty settlements and in their many nets across rivers that they own the fish. Not long ago I tried to point this out, and to point out the need to protect my right to go fishing. Someone said I sounded like an indian. Of course, if we don't protect the fish first, the right to fish won't mean much.
Of course, if we don't protect the fish first, the right to fish won't mean much. Degree of Freedom
Active Member
Red,
Concerned Angler has criticized both my original post and the reply to his criticism...I have not 'vented' on his opinions, just his apparent need to put others down. From his replies, I don't even think he fully read my posts.
Concerned Angler has criticized both my original post and the reply to his criticism...I have not 'vented' on his opinions, just his apparent need to put others down. From his replies, I don't even think he fully read my posts.
Degree of Freedom
Active Member
LOL
Ya, I said lowering the limits is undoubtably the best and only solution to the problem, and if its done there will be fish forever... You don't have to change the constitution, just be sure its interpreted and enforced properly (FN are not entitled to sell fish commercially, without a commercial license. Their fishery is intended to be used for food and trade...trade and sale are different).
As for your opinions, I was not ignoring them, I simply never commented on them. I agree 100% with you on the habitat argument. I grew up fishing the ECVI coho, begining in the late 70's as a 3 year old through to about '94 when they all but disappeared. That fishery is a prime example. The coho habitat in that region is predominantely made up of tiny streams. Those streams have been severely damaged by logging and development, not to mention drought. I am doing what I can as a streamkeeper volunteer, hoping when I have children they'll be able to enjoy fishing as I have.
None of the ideas posted on this thread are going to save the salmon on their own, every little bit helps.
Perhaps its time for a Pub Night to eliminate the fearless posts the anonymity of the internet promotes.
Ya, I said lowering the limits is undoubtably the best and only solution to the problem, and if its done there will be fish forever...
You don't have to change the constitution, just be sure its interpreted and enforced properly (FN are not entitled to sell fish commercially, without a commercial license. Their fishery is intended to be used for food and trade...trade and sale are different).As for your opinions, I was not ignoring them, I simply never commented on them. I agree 100% with you on the habitat argument. I grew up fishing the ECVI coho, begining in the late 70's as a 3 year old through to about '94 when they all but disappeared. That fishery is a prime example. The coho habitat in that region is predominantely made up of tiny streams. Those streams have been severely damaged by logging and development, not to mention drought. I am doing what I can as a streamkeeper volunteer, hoping when I have children they'll be able to enjoy fishing as I have.
None of the ideas posted on this thread are going to save the salmon on their own, every little bit helps.
Perhaps its time for a Pub Night to eliminate the fearless posts the anonymity of the internet promotes.
Two things need to happen to have any reversal affect. We need to educate the politicians and everyone who benefits from the salmon stocks must cooperate with each other .
Neither one is likely to happen until we get to a point where someone starts hollering the extinction word around !!By then it will be years too late.
Will relate a short tale here though! This is something that happens more often than anyone here wants to admit. Lodges charge big bucks for their services and guides are under pressure to produce for those customers and make them want to return.5:30 or so they are up and having coffee and off they go, guide and 3 customers. About 10 am they pull back into the docks and unload their limit of salmon to be prepared for them. They lounge around for a little while, have a leisurely lunch and then you see them heading back out only to repeat the morning story all over again. When questioned, they had a stock answer. "Oh, we only take home our possession limit". When asked what happens to the rest the answer was, "We leave them here for other clients who don`t get their limits !!"
Neither one is likely to happen until we get to a point where someone starts hollering the extinction word around !!By then it will be years too late.
Will relate a short tale here though! This is something that happens more often than anyone here wants to admit. Lodges charge big bucks for their services and guides are under pressure to produce for those customers and make them want to return.5:30 or so they are up and having coffee and off they go, guide and 3 customers. About 10 am they pull back into the docks and unload their limit of salmon to be prepared for them. They lounge around for a little while, have a leisurely lunch and then you see them heading back out only to repeat the morning story all over again. When questioned, they had a stock answer. "Oh, we only take home our possession limit". When asked what happens to the rest the answer was, "We leave them here for other clients who don`t get their limits !!"
Two things need to happen to have any reversal affect. We need to educate the politicians and everyone who benefits from the salmon stocks must cooperate with each other .
Neither one is likely to happen until we get to a point where someone starts hollering the extinction word around !!By then it will be years too late.
Will relate a short tale here though! This is something that happens more often than anyone here wants to admit. Lodges charge big bucks for their services and guides are under pressure to produce for those customers and make them want to return.5:30 or so they are up and having coffee and off they go, guide and 3 customers. About 10 am they pull back into the docks and unload their limit of salmon to be prepared for them. They lounge around for a little while, have a leisurely lunch and then you see them heading back out only to repeat the morning story all over again. When questioned, they had a stock answer. "Oh, we only take home our possession limit". When asked what happens to the rest the answer was, "We leave them here for other clients who don`t get their limits !!"
Neither one is likely to happen until we get to a point where someone starts hollering the extinction word around !!By then it will be years too late.
Will relate a short tale here though! This is something that happens more often than anyone here wants to admit. Lodges charge big bucks for their services and guides are under pressure to produce for those customers and make them want to return.5:30 or so they are up and having coffee and off they go, guide and 3 customers. About 10 am they pull back into the docks and unload their limit of salmon to be prepared for them. They lounge around for a little while, have a leisurely lunch and then you see them heading back out only to repeat the morning story all over again. When questioned, they had a stock answer. "Oh, we only take home our possession limit". When asked what happens to the rest the answer was, "We leave them here for other clients who don`t get their limits !!"
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
I'd be really suprised if a reputable lodge or guide was taking their guest poaching after already bringing limits, you need to report that if its truly happening.
Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
I'd be really suprised if a reputable lodge or guide was taking their guest poaching after already bringing limits, you need to report that if its truly happening.
R
reel easy
Guest
I have to say it one more time " LEAVE THE SALMON ALONE ONCE THEY ENTER THE RIVER, EXCEPT TO HELP THEM ANYWAY WE CAN " it's the only chance we have of saving them. If the Indians don't stop doing what they're presently doing it's all over, and guess what, I put all the blame on our governments for not having the balls to be the stewards of our resources and say enough is enough. Anything we do as sporties is like farting against thunder, but I'm sure it all helps.
R
reel easy
Guest
I have to say it one more time " LEAVE THE SALMON ALONE ONCE THEY ENTER THE RIVER, EXCEPT TO HELP THEM ANYWAY WE CAN " it's the only chance we have of saving them. If the Indians don't stop doing what they're presently doing it's all over, and guess what, I put all the blame on our governments for not having the balls to be the stewards of our resources and say enough is enough. Anything we do as sporties is like farting against thunder, but I'm sure it all helps.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
i'm 100% with you reel easy...
it's the start of the solution!
sure there are all kinds of factor's leading to the decrease
in stocks, but desecration of the spawning grounds is number one !
it's the start of the solution!
sure there are all kinds of factor's leading to the decrease
in stocks, but desecration of the spawning grounds is number one !
scott craven
Well-Known Member
i'm 100% with you reel easy...
it's the start of the solution!
sure there are all kinds of factor's leading to the decrease
in stocks, but desecration of the spawning grounds is number one !
it's the start of the solution!
sure there are all kinds of factor's leading to the decrease
in stocks, but desecration of the spawning grounds is number one !
wolf
Well-Known Member
Despey I work for a lodge and I find what you wrote about a lodge highly offensive yes some of our clients do get there limit but we do not keep fish for the next group and to say something like that and too group all lodges like that is ignorant for one it doesnt happen alot that may be what YOU think but it isnt true, we turn into a C&R fishery and we may take a few for us guides but we definatly do NOT keep fish for the next GROUP.
Wolf
Wolf
wolf
Well-Known Member
Despey I work for a lodge and I find what you wrote about a lodge highly offensive yes some of our clients do get there limit but we do not keep fish for the next group and to say something like that and too group all lodges like that is ignorant for one it doesnt happen alot that may be what YOU think but it isnt true, we turn into a C&R fishery and we may take a few for us guides but we definatly do NOT keep fish for the next GROUP.
Wolf
Wolf
Ditto what Wolf said.
I have worked in the industry for a fair while now and that is a offensive generalization to make...and very much untrue in my experience. Lodges carefully record each person's catch as it comes to the dock, and guests are kept within their limits - both daily and possession.
I have worked in the industry for a fair while now and that is a offensive generalization to make...and very much untrue in my experience. Lodges carefully record each person's catch as it comes to the dock, and guests are kept within their limits - both daily and possession.
Ditto what Wolf said.
I have worked in the industry for a fair while now and that is a offensive generalization to make...and very much untrue in my experience. Lodges carefully record each person's catch as it comes to the dock, and guests are kept within their limits - both daily and possession.
I have worked in the industry for a fair while now and that is a offensive generalization to make...and very much untrue in my experience. Lodges carefully record each person's catch as it comes to the dock, and guests are kept within their limits - both daily and possession.
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