Terry, I don't think you read my response to one of your earlier posts. Basically I asked...who is the more aggressive predator, should be more feared, attacks without provocation and is adversely effecting every animals ability to survive in the wild? That is not meant or intended to be an anti hunting statement....just a valid and accurate point.
petition to keep the BC Grizzly hunt alive
- Thread starter bardfromedson
- Start date
Sitkaspruce
Well-Known Member
Terry I like you a lot but this is crazy to imply that bears are threat to our safety? This is some nutty stephen colbert type stuff:
If there are problem bears then cull them, but culling problem bears is much different then killing for sport and pleasure. We should kill them if we HAVE to not because we WANT to. Its funny when anybody challenges the grizzly hunter logic them come back with scare tactics and political statements - yet not one address the actual ethics of killing large intelligent animals.
No sh*te, I included a link in my post to a spot in Africa where you can kill Elephants, Cheetah, Lions and even brought in tigers. I KNOW you can kill elephants and I KNOW its legal, being legal doesn't make it ethical. In Uganda they passed a law to give homosexuals the death penalty, its legal so it must be right - get what I'm saying?
Now your comparing something real to something emotional....again PS....your thinking with your emotions. When people talk about large intelligent animals, they are using emotional words. large, intelligent are not science based......
Do you look at moose the same way?? They are large intelligent animals?? same as elk?? Where do you draw the line whe you use emotional words?? What animal is OK to shoot for "Trophy Hunters"??? Deer, sheep, goats??? They are small and dumb to some people??
Yea, I could not get the smiley stuff to work as it was a shot at sarcasam.....so I guess I deserve that........
As a hunter, how could you think that hunting bears will result in killing the last of the real wild animals??? Are you saying that all the other black bears, deer, elk etc are not real world animals?? Are the farmed like salmon??
There is no way, using proper science, that we will kill off any of our animals by hunting, it impossible. Other factors, like highways, logging, oil and gas, problem wildlife, trains and poaching kill off more that hunters do. But it is so easy to point the finger at hunters because we are very weak as a group and with thoughts like yours we will always be divided.
here is a question to everyone...and I believe it has been asked before during a similar post a few years back.
Would you be againts the grizz hunt if it was not a trophy hunt, hunters had to bring out the meat?? The same a with black bears.
And for the record, have no desire to shoot a grizz, but I will never tell another person that they cannot based on emotions and "My Opinion"
Cheers
SS
Dave S
Active Member
I do not support trophy hunting/big game hunting, which is what I understand the grizzly hunt is about. It is not sustainable and will wipe out the genetics of the elite. I do not search for trophy fish when I'm on the water. I'd gladly release any exceptionally large salmon or halibut. (40lb+ salmon 90lb+ halibut) If we all target these fish, mammals, birds then it's a sure thing that the dna of the elite will disappear.
I was always taught to eat what you kill. I hope most hunters/fishers follow this and teach their young this as well. Waste no meat and use what you can from your kill. If you don't follow these rules, future generations will suffer from your irresponsibility and greed.
If you came across a trophy grizzly, lined up your shot, and before you shot a voice told you your grandchildren would never have a chance to see a wild grizzly of this size in the wild if you shot......would you?
I was always taught to eat what you kill. I hope most hunters/fishers follow this and teach their young this as well. Waste no meat and use what you can from your kill. If you don't follow these rules, future generations will suffer from your irresponsibility and greed.
If you came across a trophy grizzly, lined up your shot, and before you shot a voice told you your grandchildren would never have a chance to see a wild grizzly of this size in the wild if you shot......would you?
lorneparker1
Banned
Are you for real? A little voice? Holy fack this thread is unreal
Saxe Point
Well-Known Member
I am with you 100% on this. You are right that, along with proper environmental and habitat protection, this type of harvesting practice is the only way any species will have a chance at future survival. There are too many people who are too efficient and capable of taking too many.
Saxe Point
Well-Known Member
I sure hope he is and more people share this view!
Dave S
Active Member
Simple question Lorne.....well simple for those with morals
lorneparker1
Banned
You understand there are only a few grizzly tags issued every year right? It doesn't matter how "efficient and capable" people are. Unlike salmon which all of you have no problem murdering, as a trophy hunter you might or might not only get one draw in your life time.
lorneparker1
Banned
If you were just about to bonk a nice fat hen spring and a little voice told you " don't kill me, I am going to be a mother of thousands of little fry, and If you kill me your grandchildren may not see any fish" would you? That is how ridiculous your statement sounds
Dave S
Active Member
A few Lorne? You mean about 250 for BC alone. Also, it's worth noting that hunter kill is the largest number of unreported mortalities of grizzlies with tags. It is safe to assume that this carries over to unreported mortalities of untagged grizzlies as well. Not a great stat for hunters.
Dave S
Active Member
The comparison is not the same. The question I put out there is to address the targeting of super sized species and the effects it will have on future generations.
I already stated I do not and will not bonk exceptionally large fish. I would like to see those genetics carry on. I am working to ensure my grandchildren will have a healthy fishery and environment to enjoy.
lorneparker1
Banned
Right... but you dont have to be an exceptionally large fish to bare many eggs and the comparison is fine if you are trying to make a direct corolation to future generations. I Mean what can hurt a population more then killing females? And you are Correct about the tags. its actually about 300. which is 2% of the estimated population of grizzlys ( between 15000 and 17000 on BC). 2%! You have a hard time with the harvesting of 2% of grizzly's yet have no problem in decemation and harvesting the usual 50%+ that is taken from most species and runs of salmon by FN, commercial and rec fisherman ( as the recommended escapements for runs are usually less then 50% of the run forecast).
Read a bit before you post again
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/docs/Grizzly_Bear_Pop_Est_Report_Final_2012.pdf
Lorne
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lorneparker1
Banned
Nothing like quoting a stat containing "unreported data" that should hold some weight.
Lorne
Saxe Point
Well-Known Member
According to Wikipedia, the grizzly bear is listed as threatened in the contiguous United States and endangered in parts of Canada. In Canada, there are approximately 25,000 grizzly bears occupying British Columbia, Alberta, the Yukon, the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Ontario and the northern part of Manitoba. Approximately 1602 Special Hunting License "tags" were drawn for via lottery & sold throughout all of B.C. in 2012, by the Ministry of Forests/Lands/Natural Resource Operations. A "few" tags?
Even acknowledging that salmon populations are in trouble, with salmon numbers being measured in hundreds of thousands or millions, depending on which species of Pacific salmon you are talking about, your comparison seems hopelessly misplaced. And I don't think they have grizzly bear hatcheries.
And do you eat the trophy grizzly, or does it just get stuffed, skinned or otherwise mounted for display?
I just don't get it.
lorneparker1
Banned
Wikipedia. another great source of info. Maybe you should check the National enquirer for your next up date. Honestly if you are going to quote and base your statements on wiki, im not going to debate you anymore.
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/docs/Grizzly_Bear_Pop_Est_Report_Final_2012.pdf
There is some real data. and My reference to salmon was based on escapement and harvest data for most of our river systems and can be found on the DFO website. Alot of the rivers systems are managed to less then 50% escapement. Meaning over half of the fish are ok to kill based on Science. And that is Just peachy i guess for you guys., Springs in the Stamp this year was estimated at 34000 fish i think, im not sure but close to 20,000 (or more) we killed. Yet we are all up in arms with 2% of grizzly's being harvested is my point.
DISCONNECT YOUR FEELINGS AND USE YOUR BRAINS!
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Rum Buddies
Well-Known Member
Actually Lorne for those of us that aren't new to fishing the thought crosses our mind all the time and we do indeed release fish all the time. Just look what's happening up the Haida Gwaii - the lodges are releasing big springs and keeping the better eating cookie cutters. They get it.
As well many many halibut fishermen have started cutting loose the trophy halibut and instead opting to keep the 20 - 70lb fish.
lorneparker1
Banned
I hope you arent insinutating i am new to fishing? lol. Post 94. first few sentences. Maybe you could hold this debate on your Forum in your signature? like maybe you start the thread, then log in as other alias' since no one goes there.
Im done for tonight. I have ducks to kill in the morning (if i can bring my self to pull the trigger on those cute little defenseless buggers)
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