P.E.I. fish lab loses international credentials

[Charlie]

What do your numbers look like Charlie?
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/egg-oeuf-eng.html

You are kidding, right! I can tell you Maine hasn’t found ISAv in their Atlantic salmon, or had an ISA disease outbreak since 2006. In the U.S. if ISAv is found, the answer is quite easy and simple – eradication.

The following statement is complete BS!

First off, the vast majority of salmon raised for aquaculture are Atlantics and come from brood stock taken from farms - as it has predominately been since the 90's. (Nearly all the fish we raise come from genetic lines that have been on the coast of BC or Washington since the early 70's)

Did you mealy forget about those 7,930,000 eggs brought in from Iceland? Nor why didn’t you mention anything about those 80,000 "viable and free of disease" diseased eggs destroyed in 2005.

In 2004, Dr. Laura Richards, Director General of DFO Science, Pacific Region, successfully petitioned on behalf of the fish farm industry to waive the Canadian Fish Health Protection Regulations to allow Atlantic salmon eggs from a hatchery that does not meet Canadian regulations (CohenCommision.ca Exhibit #1683).

Since then all Atlantic salmon eggs have come from this hatchery. In 2005 an entire shipment was destroyed due to viral concerns (CohenCommission.ca Exhibit #1684). There is no record of testing the eggs that arrived in B.C. from the same hatchery the previous month (CohenCommision.ca Exhibit #1683).

Now, how did you say “(Nearly all the fish we raise come from genetic lines that have been on the coast of BC or Washington since the early 70's)” and how is Canada really doing?

Locations affected by ISA in Canada in 2013
Date confirmed	Location	Animal type infected	Scientific Name
June 5	Newfoundland	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
May 29*	Newfoundland	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
May 29*	Newfoundland	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
April 12*	Newfoundland and Labrador	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
April 12*	Newfoundland and Labrador	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
January 10*	New Brunswick	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar

. Additionally, many releases were made in lakes for the purpose of establishing a fishery in those lakes (Table 1). None of these releases resulted in the return of adult Atlantic salmon. Attempts throughout the United States and world to introduce and establish Atlantic salmon outside the Atlantic Ocean have failed.

Research to develop marine net pen aquaculture was conducted in earnest in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Some of the preliminary research was conducted in Puget Sound near Manchester, Washington, by the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS). Both Pacific and Atlantic salmon were grown in marine net pens. As a result of this research, captive broodstocks were developed which could be used to restore depleted salmon runs."
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00922/wdfw00922.pdf

What does that have to do with anything, especially knowing YOUR Norwegian feedlot industry is not even allowed to import your ISAv infected salmon eggs into the U.S. Plus, your reference even states the last import in WA was in the summer of 1990 from Tasmania, Australia.

CK, it is apparent you really do know nothing about your own company, let alone anything about ISAv or ISA disease. If you don’t believe how little you know, just ask your own company what happens when they find ISAv in one of their open net pens in Norway? I will give you some insight, how about absolutely, positively - NOTHING! ISAv is so prevalent in Norway your company literally just sits back and hopes they won’t have an ISA disease outbreak – Great company you work for!

Concerning ISAv there are over 100 known variations and they are ALL subject to mutate into that very viral ISA disease. The ISA disease has never been confirmed in any wild stocks and/or species and never will, as confirmation takes a “culture” and ISAv degrades so quickly it never will be cultured in the wild. What most miss is there have been NO studies on how ISAv weakens the immune system allowing “different diseases” other than ISA disease to kill. It has been established wild Pacific salmon can be infected, carry, and spread ISAv. Wild Pacific salmon being resistant to ISA disease really only means one thing - NOTHING.

 

[agentaqua]

GREAT reply Charlie. You discussed some of the issues that CK was either blissfully unaware of - or alternatively - was afraid to discuss and let the cat out of the bag. I guess the word or title "sustainability" in the industrial world is synonmous with "bullsh*t".

It's an interesting how we are at a time in our global cultural maturity that there is a well paying market for people that lie well and creatively; while people who tell the truth are punished and ostracized. It's a crime - as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks also to Englishman for taking the time to counter CK's dribble. It's not the 1st time CK has been corrected and "enlightened" on this forum a number of issues, including the precautionary approach - be he always seems to ignore and forget the obvious rebuttals w/o even acknowledging that he was wrong.

Thanks to CK also. I believe it is a rewarding education for everyone on this forum and on the web to have the standard industrys' lies highlighted and debunked so that we are a better informed and better prepared public overseeing (where possible) the public administration of the public resources.

 

[agentaqua]

Well…yes and no. It can’t just be summed up that simple because it is not consistent across the board. There are species differences, enumeration methodology differences, abundance-driven considerations, budgetary differences, precision differences (goes hand in hand with methodology) observer efficiency considerations, spawner life considerations, environmental factors (goes hand in hand with OE) and fish behaviour. All of these can factor into the precision of an estimate. The goal is to select the appropriate enumeration method for a particular stream, lake or lakeshore that takes all of the above into consideration as best as possible. Is it perfect? No, because counting salmon is not easy when factors interact, but the people that undertake these enumeration projects have a great deal of experience selecting the appropriate method. The species differences cannot be ignored because the Chinook/Coho world of enumeration is different from the Sockeye world. Chinook/Coho have some significant data gaps; whereas, Sockeye (i.e. Fraser) has a much richer, long term data set. I caution the use of the word “actual” because the only method that comes close to a true gold standard are enumeration fences and even they can be prone to breaches due to environmental conditions or if they are not maintained properly. Fences cannot be put anywhere - they have their pros and cons like any other enumeration method.

It is true budgets have dwindled – more so on the Chinook/Coho side of things. With deficit reduction being the focus nowadays the future is definitely going to be challenging to say the least.

Thanks for this great reply Shuswap - with much more details on the stock assessment methodology than I provided in my sparse and general view of the process.

Yes, you are right, of couse - there are a number of nuggets still functioning within the stock assessment process, and not alll watersheds suffer from inadequate assessments for all species.

However, I don't know if you have been around long enough in these processes to have experience in stock assessment during the days of the HRSEP and Fisheries Renewal funding.

During those days, both the feds and the province understood the need for local stewardship and weren't so complient with corporate demands and there was funding for literally hundreds of local community groups across the province to do all sorts of projects from stock assessment to stock assistance to habitat assessment to habitat restoration.

DFO was more-or-less adequately funded, as well.

Flash ahead to TODAY....

DFO cut to a point where they cannot adequately perform their duties. Over 60 habitat biologists laid-off. Fisheries Renewal and HRSEP nothing but a memory. Environmental assessments gutted by bills C-38 and C-45. Chinese owning much of the oil patch and pushing hard for mega projects like the pipelines. Mines getting roads and powerlines with much reduced environmental assessments.

Every change sold to us under the guise of fear and the promise of "jobs" and "prosperity". All sold to us from people whose job it is to lie creatively and hide the real truth. People in jobs like what CK does. The decisons made at higher levels by people either receiving nondescript manila envelopes under the table and/or getting huge profits in their stock portfolios held in their wifes' names.

That's how it has gone with natural resource management in the last 20 years or so, with a huge acceleration in the past 3 years or so since the sociopath harper was elected with a majority in the last term.

That's his governments' gift to our kids: economic colonialism and disenfranchisement. AND a big ugly mess.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

You are kidding, right! I can tell you Maine hasn’t found ISAv in their Atlantic salmon, or had an ISA disease outbreak since 2006. In the U.S. if ISAv is found, the answer is quite easy and simple – eradication.

The following statement is complete BS!


Did you mealy forget about those 7,930,000 eggs brought in from Iceland? Nor why didn’t you mention anything about those 80,000 "viable and free of disease" diseased eggs destroyed in 2005.

In 2004, Dr. Laura Richards, Director General of DFO Science, Pacific Region, successfully petitioned on behalf of the fish farm industry to waive the Canadian Fish Health Protection Regulations to allow Atlantic salmon eggs from a hatchery that does not meet Canadian regulations (CohenCommision.ca Exhibit #1683).

Since then all Atlantic salmon eggs have come from this hatchery. In 2005 an entire shipment was destroyed due to viral concerns (CohenCommission.ca Exhibit #1684). There is no record of testing the eggs that arrived in B.C. from the same hatchery the previous month (CohenCommision.ca Exhibit #1683).

Now, how did you say “(Nearly all the fish we raise come from genetic lines that have been on the coast of BC or Washington since the early 70's)” and how is Canada really doing?

Locations affected by ISA in Canada in 2013
Date confirmed	Location	Animal type infected	Scientific Name
June 5	Newfoundland	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
May 29*	Newfoundland	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
May 29*	Newfoundland	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
April 12*	Newfoundland and Labrador	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
April 12*	Newfoundland and Labrador	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar
January 10*	New Brunswick	Atlantic salmon	Salmo salar

What does that have to do with anything, especially knowing YOUR Norwegian feedlot industry is not even allowed to import your ISAv infected salmon eggs into the U.S. Plus, your reference even states the last import in WA was in the summer of 1990 from Tasmania, Australia.

CK, it is apparent you really do know nothing about your own company, let alone anything about ISAv or ISA disease. If you don’t believe how little you know, just ask your own company what happens when they find ISAv in one of their open net pens in Norway? I will give you some insight, how about absolutely, positively - NOTHING! ISAv is so prevalent in Norway your company literally just sits back and hopes they won’t have an ISA disease outbreak – Great company you work for!

Concerning ISAv there are over 100 known variations and they are ALL subject to mutate into that very viral ISA disease. The ISA disease has never been confirmed in any wild stocks and/or species and never will, as confirmation takes a “culture” and ISAv degrades so quickly it never will be cultured in the wild. What most miss is there have been NO studies on how ISAv weakens the immune system allowing “different diseases” other than ISA disease to kill. It has been established wild Pacific salmon can be infected, carry, and spread ISAv. Wild Pacific salmon being resistant to ISA disease really only means one thing - NOTHING.

Charlie - If you add up the eggs imported since 1985 you get a number close to 27 million.

If you divide that by the number of fish per farm/cycle (usually about 500,000) you get about 54.

That is the roughly total number of sites stocked with eggs that were not taken from brood stock within BC.

In a span of about 28 years, the entire BC salmon farming industry stocked sites with eggs from outside of BC 54 times.

Given that the industry operates about 75 farms on average in BC and the grow-out cycle is roughly 2 years we could estimate that (75 farms * 28 years / 2 year cycle) about 1050 stockings have occurred.

That would mean that nearly 1000 were from eggs harvested from internal, local brood programs and 50 or so were with eggs from outside of BC.

Feel free to check my math and rip this apart in any way you see fit (these are rough averages based on todays numbers) - but that is why I can confidently say "nearly all".

Also, another thing to point out is that there have never been any eggs brought in from Norway.

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Here's a good paper on the evolution of the ISA virus: http://salmonfarmscience.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/disease_2012_isa_evolution.pdf

Interesting to note that the only other natural host in the North Atlantic for ISA is the Brown Trout.

I wonder where the fish came from that have established populations in BC?

Did anyone screen those guys before they were stocked for sportfishing?

 

[agentaqua]

It's interesting to me that any info you disseminate as "good" is from the salmon farm PR website salmonfarmscience akin to the tobacco lobby in "Thank You for Smoking".

Here's a scary, but easy to understand scenario (maybe even for you CK):

Salmon farms can't get enough eggs to restock at a crucial time (even given the math and number of times they have been able to use their own broodstock). They have a private meeting with laura Richards and convince her to temporarily relax the egg import standards so they can use the icelandic hatchery with ISA.

The eggs are unknowingly imported with ISA and ISA is released upon the Pacific Coast.

First juvenile salmon smolts like coho and chinook are infected locally around the farm site, as well as juvenile herring, and smelts such as eulachons.

The Pacific salmon smolts are asymptomatic and the disease hits remission waiting for a stress event like spawning. The coho and chinook go off for the big swim and come back at spawning time.

Meanwhile herring stocks take a hit - as well as eulachons. And since they swim in mixed aged groups - the disease self replicates and lowers the fishes immune system - making it more susceptible to other disease vectors.

The coho and chinook die just before and during spawning (many before they release their eggs) - releasing ISA into the naive native resident trout/char/salmon populations.

This happens in a lake and nearby tribs - infecting resident juvenile sockeye smolts. Sockeye stocks like the River's Inlet and Cultus lake are affected and nobody knows why the stocks are crashing.

Nobody tests the resident fish, and DFO/CFIA refuse to do so in their surveillence testing even after being asked to do so by FN. Commercial fishing is curtailed - like the River's inlet stocks - but still no relief as the virus mutates into a new disease vector faster than the fish stocks can adapt.

Often the virus also doesn't kill the fish immediately but lowers the immune system making it look like other disease vectors are to blame.

A DFO researcher investigates but gets her work covered-up and hidden from even a court order. Nobody retests because nobody wants to hear the word "liability" or "compensation" from a lawyers lips.

Another researcher comes along and retests using different methodolgy - finds ISA-like disease - and she is similarly isolated and ostracized. These results however - make it to court and we start finding-out about how bad it could be.

Enter the communications branch of DFO on damage control. The communications people in CFIA also get onboard after talking to their lawyers and also try to muddy the waters - trying to "win the communications battle". Hugely edited and misleading news releases go out and are read by another inexperienced and incompetent fisheries minister.

Independent reaserchers get involved. They have a news release. More damage control by DFO/CFIA. They complain to the OIE and the only independent lab that found ISA positive results is under investigation.

DFO/CFIA also try to intimidate the independents by raiding their labs and seizing their samples claiming the samples are at risk of infecting wild stocks, yet denying there is any virus in the samples. They keep and destroy the samples.

The lab gets decertified by OIE after Canada gives the OIE $2M.

ISA is now here to stay and will be keeping infected fish populations at a new lowered equilibrium point for many generations to come.

Meanwhile PR hacks like CK and others get on sportfishing forums and in the media telling you how great and responsible the open net cage industry is, while government communications people still insist "nothing to see here - move along".

It's a real-life scary movie we are all starring in currently...

 

[ClayoquotKid]

LOL!

That was something Morton would have been proud of!

Did you even click on the link, or did your confirmation bias stop you at SalmonFarmScience (which hosted the paper)?

Evolution of infectious salmon anaemia virus (ISA virus)
Heidrun Plarre • Are Nylund • Marius Karlsen •
Øyvind Brevik • Per Anton Sæther •
Siri Vike

Your story has some significant holes...

Are you deliberately ignoring the fact that millions of Atlantic salmon and Brown trout have been introduced to the Pacific starting over 100 years ago?

That Miller's samples (from all over BC) from the 80's showed the same signatures/fragments?

That many of Molly Kibenge's supposedly positive samples came from SE Alaska in 2002 and 2003?

That no eggs have ever come to BC from Norway (ie your "Norwegian strain") - Would it not be the Icelandic strain? - But wait, there doesn't seem to BE an Icelandic strain. (Maybe that is why the industry would have felt it was safe to get eggs from there?)

How can aquaculture be responsible for the importation/introduction of the "Norwegian strain" of ISA when we have never sourced any eggs from Norway?

Also, are you implying that the aquaculture industry would not only be able to convince a DFO official to allow the import of a known viral pathogen, but would want to do something that would potentially devastate the fish stocks it relies on for business?

Does that seriously make sense to you?

Are you kidding me?

Your conspiratorial speculations of collusion and ill intent have seriously departed from rational thought here Aqua.

The harder you try to prop up your story the more ridiculous you sound.

You should stick to calling people sociopaths and comparing everything to the tobacco industry - your logic has completely derailed.

 

[agentaqua]

your response is called misdirection, CK. Most of my scenario has already come true. The rest remains to be proven-out. Thanks though - I can see where the next argument is coming from farm PR people - "wasn't us - honest!"

 

[Charlie]

CK… You do understand you work for a company that is 100% controlled by a foreign government, right? As in, YOUR company board of directors and senior management can’t even go to the bathroom without getting the country of Norway’s permission. And, one of the prevalent reasons Norway wants to expand to different regions of the world is due to Norway’s salmon feedlots being infected with NORWAY’s diseases, as they really are wanting to “share their wealth” with Canada and every other country – their wealth of diseases!

Just to provide some facts for you:

Did you even click on the link, or did your confirmation bias stop you at SalmonFarmScience (which hosted the paper)?

Evolution of infectious salmon anaemia virus (ISA virus)
Heidrun Plarre • Are Nylund • Marius Karlsen •
Øyvind Brevik • Per Anton Sæther •
Siri Vike

Surprise - I actually did and do read your links, maybe you should also. “Your story has some significant holes...” and do quote from the study you reference:

“In this study, four different segments of the genome of about 100 ISA viruses have been sequenced in an attempt to understand the evolution of ISA viruses and how these viruses are maintained in and transmitted between populations of farmed Atlantic salmon.”

“Calculation of the time of most recent common ancestor (TMRCA) suggests that the Norwegian ISA viruses separated from the European subtype found in North America between 1932 and 1959. The TMRCA data also suggest that the ISA viruses in Chile were transmitted from Norway in the period from 1995 to 2007, depending on which of the four genes were used in the analysis.”

“The genome of ISA viruses contains eight segments of negative-stranded RNA. In the present study, four segments, the nucleoprotein (NP) gene (segment 3), the tentative acidic polymerase (PA) gene (segment 4), the fusion protein gene (F) (segment 5), and the haemagglutininesterase gene (HE) (segment 6) from a selection of ISA viruses have been sequenced and compared.”

“This study includes ISA viruses collected in the period from 1987 until 2011, and consists of ISA viruses from Norway (N = 86), Scotland (N = 2), Faroe Islands (N = 1), North America (N = 2) and Chile (N = 5) (Table 1). The viruses were obtained from salmon in both fresh and seawater. Atlantic salmon does not occur naturally inChile, and the ISA viruses from that country were all obtained from individuals that originally came as embryos from Europe or North America (east coast). ISA viruses can be separated into two major genotypes, a North American and a European genotype, where a subtype of the European genotype is also present in Eastern North America. This study includes only ISA viruses belonging to the European genotype.

“Extraction of RNA, RT PCR and sequencing were performed as described by Devold et al. All PCR products of ISA viruses obtained from heart or gill tissues or from cell cultured isolates were sequenced in both directions. The primers used for PCR and sequencing of segments three and numbers: segment 3, JN710835-JN710921; segment 4,
JN710922-JN711009; segment 5, JN711010-JN711056; and segment 6, JN711057-JN711096.”

Are you deliberately ignoring the fact that millions of Atlantic salmon and Brown trout have been introduced to the Pacific starting over 100 years ago?

Your own reference states the “Norwegian ISA viruses separated from the European subtype found in North America between 1932 and 1959.” That over 100 years must be referring to when Canada exchanged Rainbow trout for Atlantic salmon with Scotland in 1895? How about throwing this in... Did you also know Scotland’s first ISA disease outbreak wasn’t until May 1998, on a salmon farm at Loch Nevis on the west coast. Or, how about Scotland’s strain of ISAv was imported from Norway?

BC fish farms (Marine Harvest, aka Stolt Sea Farms, aka Atlantic Salmon of Main) actually imported Atlantic salmon eggs into BC from both Norway and east coast of Canada for years. Where do you think those Atlantic salmon eggs really come from?

“Up to now, the companies have included in their pens non-native species of salmon which are apparently bred for economically desirable characteristics.” Now, let me clue you in on YOUR Atlantic salmon generically come from:

“Since a federal court judge in May ordered two of the state’s largest salmon farms, Atlantic Salmon of Maine and Stolt Sea Farms, to stock their pens only with North American strains of Atlantic salmon, aquaculture operations have been seeking genetically pure fish, with no success. Every batch of Canadian hatchery fish tested showed some European genes, and thus failed the strict protocol designed by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.”

That Miller's samples (from all over BC) from the 80's showed the same signatures/fragments?

That many of Molly Kibenge's supposedly positive samples came from SE Alaska in 2002 and 2003?

Yep very true; however, sorry for your feedlots to be off the “not my fault” hook, one would have to test samples prior to the magic years prior to 1979. BTW… ISAv can only survive 48 hours without a host.

Segment 8 is a mutation found only from one place – NORWAY! “Based on phylogenetic analysis of segment 2 and segment 8, ISAV isolates have been divided into two major genogroups: the North American (NA) genogroup including isolates from Canada and the USA, and the European (EU) genogroup consisting of ISAV isolates from Norway and Scotland (Blake et al. 1999; Krossøy et al. 2001).

That no eggs have ever come to BC from Norway (ie your "Norwegian strain") - Would it not be the Icelandic strain? - But wait, there doesn't seem to BE an Icelandic strain. (Maybe that is why the industry would have felt it was safe to get eggs from there?)


How can aquaculture be responsible for the importation/introduction of the "Norwegian strain" of ISA when we have never sourced any eggs from Norway?

CK?

How about this… Segment 8 from Norway imported via eggs to Scotland, Ireland, Canada, and Chile.

Concerning Ireland:
“In the period 1984 – 1987 salmon eggs were imported from Norway. “
“Selective breeding of Atlantic salmon of Norwegian strains started in 1991 in Iceland.”
http://www.fisheries.is/aquaculture/species/atlantic-salmon/

Concerning Canada:
"Farmed Atlantic salmon was first imported in New Brunswick, Canada into Lord’s Cove, Deer Island in 1979. "

Now where do you thing those were imported from? Take your pick NORWAY, Scotland, or Ireland. It really doesn’t make any difference as they ALL originated from those ISAv infected imported NORWAY salmon!!! Keep in mind that was only five years before the first ISA disease outbreak was confirmed in NORWAY, 1984 (Atlantic salmon feedlot). Since then, ISA has been found in New Brunswick (Atlantic salmon feedlot), Canada in 1996, Nova Scotia (Atlantic salmon feedlot) in 1998, Scotland (Atlantic salmon feedlot) in 1998, Chile (Atlantic salmon feedlot) in 1999, Faroe Islands in 2000 (Atlantic salmon feedlot) and the United States (Atlantic salmon feedlot) in 2001. The ISA disease has ONLY been confirmed in YOUR NORWEIGIAN Atlantic salmon FEEDLOTS and YOUR NORWEIGIAN companies surely are importing the known cause, which is the ISA virus around the entire world.

“Atlantic salmon are not native to British Columbia and eggs were first imported there in 1984 from Scotland,

Can you say imported, Norway, Scotland, Ireland, and Norwegian strain of ISAv in one sentence?
http://www.fao.org/fishery/countrysector/naso_canada/en

Also, are you implying that the aquaculture industry would not only be able to convince a DFO official to allow the import of a known viral pathogen, but would want to do something that would potentially devastate the fish stocks it relies on for business?

YEP!

Does that seriously make sense to you?

Yep, it sure does

Are you kidding me?

What seriously makes sense to me and I am not kidding you in the least, is CK you really have no idea of who and/.or what you are dealing with! I am not implying anything, I am flat out telling you – YOUR Norwegian Atlantic feedlot industry does NOT care if it imports ISAv to any country, including BC – at all! If you would bother to check those ISAv test results done by your own country of Norway owned company you will find almost every single Atlantic salmon your company has in Norway, and Scotland have tested positive and are infected with the Norwegian strain of ISAv.

They really don’t have to convince DFO (Canada) of anything, as that is called economics 101 and GDP. Canada already knows they have imported a known viral pathogen and really don’t care if it would potentially devastate the entire wild salmon fish stocks. Canada is already on the record stating - Pacific salmon has no value. Canada will do whatever is necessary to continue exporting YOUR disease ridden Atlantic salmon to whoever will buy it, for as much and as long as they can. And, the current Canadian government really don’t care if YOUR feedlots kill off every single one of your wild salmon – PERIOD!

 

[agentaqua]

http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2013/07/23/...ses-disturbing-questions-about-farmed-salmon/

 

[Birdsnest]

A P.E.I. lab that said it detected a deadly fish virus in British Columbia salmon lacked proper quality standards and didn't thoroughly investigate conflicting test results, a review has found.
The examination of the research laboratory at the Atlantic Veterinary College in Prince Edward Island was done by an independent panel for the World Organization for Animal Health, or OIE.
Earlier this month, the lab was stripped of its prestigious reference statusas one of only two facilities in the world recognized by OIE to test for infectious salmon anemia.
The review, released Monday, says the lab had no formal quality system in place and there was a risk of cross-contamination of samples.
The investigators also said they were surprised the lab received no funding from the school or the federal government. The report recommended that the school or government provide core funding if they wanted to maintain a reference lab.
The lab is run by Fred Kibenge, who is considered one of the world's leading authorities on infectious salmon anemia, but whose work came under scrutiny in 2011 after he said he found evidence of the virulent disease in wild B.C. sockeye salmon.
His finding challenged the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's position that the virus is not present in the province.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/07/30/pei-fish-virus-lab-criticized.html

 

[Andrew P]

A P.E.I. lab that said it detected a deadly fish virus in British Columbia salmon lacked proper quality standards and didn't thoroughly investigate conflicting test results, a review has found.
The examination of the research laboratory at the Atlantic Veterinary College in Prince Edward Island was done by an independent panel for the World Organization for Animal Health, or OIE.
Earlier this month, the lab was stripped of its prestigious reference statusas one of only two facilities in the world recognized by OIE to test for infectious salmon anemia.
The review, released Monday, says the lab had no formal quality system in place and there was a risk of cross-contamination of samples.
The investigators also said they were surprised the lab received no funding from the school or the federal government. The report recommended that the school or government provide core funding if they wanted to maintain a reference lab.
The lab is run by Fred Kibenge, who is considered one of the world's leading authorities on infectious salmon anemia, but whose work came under scrutiny in 2011 after he said he found evidence of the virulent disease in wild B.C. sockeye salmon.
His finding challenged the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's position that the virus is not present in the province.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/07/30/pei-fish-virus-lab-criticized.html

Super awesome. So, there is a need for the testing....this lab is an expert but needs more funding to do a proper job, and instead of the feds stepping up and giving the funding....we are down one lab. Very solid logic there. What a bunch of bull!! Thanks for pointing out how corrupt the whole situation is; government and industry don't want it to be found, therefore it can't be.

WOW.

 

[GLG]

A P.E.I. lab that said it detected a deadly fish virus in British Columbia salmon lacked proper quality standards and didn't thoroughly investigate conflicting test results, a review has found.

The review, released Monday, says the lab had no formal quality system in place and there was a risk of cross-contamination of samples.

Risk of cross contamination.... you mean if one or two sample had positive ISA it could come out as three or four samples testing positive. I think the point is he did find evidence and by law had to report it. It should be noted that when you do a sample run you put negative control samples in, that's to test for contamination. They should come out negative, if not, then the whole sample run is questionable. If you are getting positive hits for ISA ever lab in Canada should be looking for it. They should also do a blind study with samples that are negative and samples that are positive. Each lab should compare results and matched to the control samples. Then we would see what lab can find it and what lab has no clue. And yes the labs that have no clue are the ones that need to be shut down....

You fish farm gang .... you have lost trust and respect and your making it worse with you constant sowing seeds of doubt with the public. Get on with it and move your feedlots off the migration routes. Do you want to be remembered as the people that brought death and destruction or do you want to be remembered as people that brought quality food in a sustainable way to the world. Can you not see the difference between right and wrong...
Perhaps ask your children as they do not have money clouding their judgment....

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Do you want to be remembered as the people that brought death and destruction or do you want to be remembered as people that brought quality food in a sustainable way to the world. Can you not see the difference between right and wrong...
Perhaps ask your children as they do not have money clouding their judgment....

Classic.

My four year old can understand perfectly well that since the fish we raise are still alive, it means they do not have a disease that kills them.

One has to wonder what is clouding your judgement.

 

[agentaqua]

Classic.

My four year old can understand perfectly well that since the fish we raise are still alive, it means they do not have a disease that kills them.

One has to wonder what is clouding your judgement.

Four year old maturity and sense of responsibility for the FF pundits and their DFO/CFIA protectors. That about sums it up, CK.

They didn't get "confirmation" of ISA because it is difficult to grow a virus in culture especially after the samples were "degraded". It sure as h*ll doesn't mean that that fish didn't have ISA - or that ISA is not prevalent within the wild populations.

It means that the methodology currently utilized by DFO/CFIA is limited in what it can do - and that another methodology (e.g. Miller's) and/or more sampling not only needs to be done - but should have been done but instead was covered-up by DFO/CFIA.

see: http://www.watershed-watch.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Exh-2147-NonRT.pdf

Why didn't DFO's lab also go through the OIE examination? Why was Fred's the only one targeted?

Wait a minute - his was the only independent lab, and the only one brave enough to acknowledge positive results. Hmmm...

Also CK - contrary to your 4YO reasoning -

any host can have a disease that remains dormant until a stress event triggers reactivation of a virus which may or may not kill the fish.

If the fish died it is unavailable for sampling. Out of sight - out of mind.

Just because the fish was alive before sampling - does not mean it is unaffected by a virus or other fish health concerns. It also doesn't mean that it does not have a virus - either active or latent.

Sublethal effects of viruses include morbidity and possibly a decrease in the effectiveness of the host's immune system that can allow other diseases and parasites to either kill the host or decrease it's health and fitness. Decreases in fitness (e.g. aerobic and systolic function - e.g HSMI/PRV) can decrease swimming ability, including speeds and endurance. A decrease in either speed and/or endurance can magnify hyrdraulic fish obstructions (e.g. passage at Hell's Gate) and/or increase predation (i.e. decrease escape success). In all of these cases - there is a population-level effect, and a reduction in overall stock fitness.

BIG words for a 4 YO CK - but give it a try. There's online dictionaries available if you don't understand the words...

 

[Dave]

Sublethal effects of viruses include morbidity and possibly a decrease in the effectiveness of the host's immune system that can allow other diseases and parasites to either kill the host or decrease it's health and fitness. Decreases in fitness (e.g. aerobic and systolic function - e.g HSMI/PRV) can decrease swimming ability, including speeds and endurance. A decrease in either speed and/or endurance can magnify hyrdraulic fish obstructions (e.g. passage at Hell's Gate) and/or increase predation (i.e. decrease escape success). In all of these cases - there is a population-level effect, and a reduction in overall stock fitness.
.

Substitute the 4th word viruses, with warm water, and you have what’s happening now on the Fraser River. And still we have FN fishing them and even more sporties clamouring for a sockeye snaggery ...
To me this is far more relevant than a most likely endemic strain of ISAv proven to be non lethal to both Pacifics and Atlantics.

 

[agentaqua]

Substitute the 4th word viruses, with warm water, and you have what’s happening now on the Fraser River. And still we have FN fishing them and even more sporties clamouring for a sockeye snaggery ...
To me this is far more relevant than a most likely endemic strain of ISAv proven to be non lethal to both Pacifics and Atlantics.

warm water likely exasperates the decrease in aerobic function as less O2 is available AND fish are more stressed (and more likely to have dormant viruses become active).

So, it could be BOTH effects acting synergistically.

As far as the testing of ISA on Pacifics: There are something like 100 different known ISA viruses - AND prob. many more unknown varieties.

I doubt if ALL ISA viruses have the same effects or ALL were proven to be "benign" on Pacifics.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of fish health concerns and those effects on survival....

 

[Dave]

I wouldn't be so dismissive of fish health concerns and those effects on survival....

I'm not dismissive at all but believe this warmer than average Fraser River water temperature, and the even warmer tributaries, like Nechako, Stuart and perhaps later, the Horsefly, is going to cause high psm, and someone will point to fish farms as the cause. We should be trying to put as many of these fish on the grounds, rather than lining up to kill them.

 

[agentaqua]

I'm not dismissive at all but believe this warmer than average Fraser River water temperature, and the even warmer tributaries, like Nechako, Stuart and perhaps later, the Horsefly, is going to cause high psm, and someone will point to fish farms as the cause. We should be trying to put as many of these fish on the grounds, rather than lining up to kill them.

As far as PSM goes (Post Spawning Mortality for those unfamiliar with the jargon) - do you agree it would be a very good idea to test those fish for ISA, PRV and other diseases in order to put that controversy to rest????

 

[ClayoquotKid]

Four year old maturity and sense of responsibility for the FF pundits and their DFO/CFIA protectors. That about sums it up, CK.

They didn't get "confirmation" of ISA because it is difficult to grow a virus in culture especially after the samples were "degraded". It sure as h*ll doesn't mean that that fish didn't have ISA - or that ISA is not prevalent within the wild populations.

It means that the methodology currently utilized by DFO/CFIA is limited in what it can do - and that another methodology (e.g. Miller's) and/or more sampling not only needs to be done - but should have been done but instead was covered-up by DFO/CFIA.

see: http://www.watershed-watch.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Exh-2147-NonRT.pdf

Why didn't DFO's lab also go through the OIE examination? Why was Fred's the only one targeted?

Wait a minute - his was the only independent lab, and the only one brave enough to acknowledge positive results. Hmmm...

Also CK - contrary to your 4YO reasoning -

any host can have a disease that remains dormant until a stress event triggers reactivation of a virus which may or may not kill the fish.

If the fish died it is unavailable for sampling. Out of sight - out of mind.

Just because the fish was alive before sampling - does not mean it is unaffected by a virus or other fish health concerns. It also doesn't mean that it does not have a virus - either active or latent.

Sublethal effects of viruses include morbidity and possibly a decrease in the effectiveness of the host's immune system that can allow other diseases and parasites to either kill the host or decrease it's health and fitness. Decreases in fitness (e.g. aerobic and systolic function - e.g HSMI/PRV) can decrease swimming ability, including speeds and endurance. A decrease in either speed and/or endurance can magnify hyrdraulic fish obstructions (e.g. passage at Hell's Gate) and/or increase predation (i.e. decrease escape success). In all of these cases - there is a population-level effect, and a reduction in overall stock fitness.

BIG words for a 4 YO CK - but give it a try. There's online dictionaries available if you don't understand the words...

Hey Aqua - Do you talk to people in real life like that?

Your entire theory rests on speculative conspiratorial acts of collusion.

The lengths you go to to explain away the obvious answers to questions that don't end in "Fish Farm Virus" is spectacular.

You are like a broken record, single-mindedly jamming your simple answer into the latter part of a very complex question.

You seem to be able to explain away the worst in shoddy scientific practice when the result suits your views, and the results thousands of other tests run in Canada and the US are also dismissed as "collusion" falling nicely into your corporate/government tinfoil hat files.

What about the thought that ISA from Norway is not present in BC?

That the lab which reported finding it did so using less than acceptable methods and failed to adequately check their results before running to the media with one of the most active anti-farm campaigners and a SFU statistician (Note - no fish pathologist, virologist ect. present)?