Lean times for salmon

It is possible that other Salmon stocks are not in the same situation as the Columbia fish. It's just that these fish are measured in the millions versus the hundreds or a few thousand other rivers are measured in. When it comes time to divy-up the catch for the SEAK & NBC troll fleet & the northern resorts, the low Columbia numbers SHOULD result in a greatly reduced catch of Salmon from other streams, FYI the SEAK & NBC resorts catch about 100K Chinook combined. Rumor is that the SEAK resorts are encouraged to release all fin clipped Chinook so that they don't exceed their quota of "Treaty Chinook" which is 50K fish during the Oct-May time period.
 
Great info - thanks. Some of the good years 2008 & 2013 line-up with these cool water years:
http://research.jisao.washington.edu/pdo/

Hopefully these Columbia numbers put the brakes on some fisheries (up north) via the abundance index.

Does it really make you feel good because you can't fish for them where you live that you would want us closed? Why on earth would you want that? So if we get closed are you guys putting the brakes on by crossing our boarder to take our halibut on the Jdf. Is your US fleet going to stop hammering our fish from fraser and Van island rivers? How about our coho. Seems as though your country hammers those too. Be careful what you wish for.
 
Does it really make you feel good because you can't fish for them where you live that you would want us closed? Why on earth would you want that? So if we get closed are you guys putting the brakes on by crossing our boarder to take our halibut on the Jdf. Is your US fleet going to stop hammering our fish from fraser and Van island rivers? How about our coho. Seems as though your country hammers those too. Be careful what you wish for.


Well said!
 
Does it really make you feel good because you can't fish for them where you live that you would want us closed? Why on earth would you want that? So if we get closed are you guys putting the brakes on by crossing our boarder to take our halibut on the Jdf. Is your US fleet going to stop hammering our fish from fraser and Van island rivers? How about our coho. Seems as though your country hammers those too. Be careful what you wish for.


There are more
Great info - thanks. Some of the good years 2008 & 2013 line-up with these cool water years:
http://research.jisao.washington.edu/pdo/

Hopefully these Columbia numbers put the brakes on some fisheries (up north) via the abundance index.


There are more pepole in California then all of Canada. We live in this great country where the pepole own the crown land & its resources. We are lightly populated.

I can guarantee that 1/2 the Chinook that leave the northern Lodges land south of the boarder. Same with the Halibut TAC.
 
Does it really make you feel good because you can't fish for them where you live that you would want us closed? Why on earth would you want that? So if we get closed are you guys putting the brakes on by crossing our boarder to take our halibut on the Jdf. Is your US fleet going to stop hammering our fish from fraser and Van island rivers? How about our coho. Seems as though your country hammers those too. Be careful what you wish for.

Talk about a misunderstanding............

The northern troll fleets (SEAK & NBC) get their chinook catch limits via the aggregate abundance index (AAI). 20+ streams from NBC to California compose the index. The Columbia has millions of chinook returning in an average year; as such it influences the AAI to a greater extent than other rivers. It will make the AAI lower. A vast majority of WCVI Chinook are caught in SEAK. Reducing the catch of the northern troll fleets should decrease the catch of the WCVI chinook as well as other endangered runs.

As far as the resorts are concerned, AK imposes stricter limits on non-resident anglers. BC should do the same.
http://wildfishconservancy.org/images/news/CaughtFarFromHome2011journalchart.jpg

If you look at the above picture, lower right area, 80% of our endangered Puget Sound Chinook are caught in Southern BC. The upper right details the SEAK catch of WCVI Chinook.

I can guarantee that 1/2 the Chinook that leave the northern Lodges land south of the boarder. Same with the Halibut TAC.

I call total BS on this number. What is it based on? Your limited observation? The lodges I have been to have about 80% CDN guests.

I know we did have treaty rights to Fraser sockeye, but I'd also like to see some facts to back-up the Coho interception. The US Sockeye rights stem from the Hells Gate issue in the 1930's/1940's where the US footed half the bill to restore environmental damage:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hells_Gate_(British_Columbia)

With you, not against you, Eric
 
There are more



There are more pepole in California then all of Canada. We live in this great country where the pepole own the crown land & its resources. We are lightly populated.

I can guarantee that 1/2 the Chinook that leave the northern Lodges land south of the boarder. Same with the Halibut TAC.

Well I can tell you that the lodge I ran in the Queen Charlottes ( yes Queen Charlottes)for 10 years had 85% American guests
 
Still trying to figure out the significance of California having a greater population than all of Canada or how many lodge guests are from the US other than some sort of pissing contest.
 
There is lots of variables.. if the lodge owner is American or Canadian. were the primary market is that they are targeting.....some lodges are still large usa and some are large amount Canadians. I would have said 15 years ago the lodge industry was 80 % Americans then economy changed and up to 2 years ago it went 80% Canadians..... right now I would say you would be looking at about 50/50 splite..again depending on the ownership... hope that helps
 
Still trying to figure out the significance of California having a greater population than all of Canada or how many lodge guests are from the US other than some sort of pissing contest.
Yes, i agree. Seems kind of juvenile
 
Still trying to figure out the significance of California having a greater population than all of Canada or how many lodge guests are from the US other than some sort of pissing contest.


Fair question & I can see how it made no sense. What I was referring to is that Canada has such a small population that we put less pressure on the fish. It sucks to have us have to cut our fisheries when we are such a small group.

As for the northern Lodges I was referring to the fact that for the average Canadian it sucks to have to accept any cuts when "I feel" that a good chunk of the catch is not even taken by Canadians. So restricting catch for those who live up or spend time up there would be brutal.

It may sound socialist but I just feel that the pepole of Canada should be able to have full accsess to its resources & that it be a priority before anything that is left is used any other way. This is the same for any resource like wild game, energy, crown land etc.


This was not meant to be a pissing match. Nor do I want to come across as over protectionist. Just my view

The early closing of Halibut is an example. Not sure how much difference it would make, but even if forien angler were only aloud 1 Halibut (the over size). Perhaps that would leave enough to keep the season open for folks,?.
 
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Personally I would like DFO to improve the accuracy of estimated catch so we have confidence that we actually need to end the season early.
 
I appreciate your honesty to all the above. I am from the US & would fully support lower catches for non-Canadians. As for share of fish versus population, don't go there; the NBC (North BC) & SEAK (South East Alaska) commercial troll fleets get a fairly even split of Chinook with the advantage going to SEAK (what's new, they also tend to over run their quota w/o penalty). Same for the NBC & SEAK lodges (about 50K Chinook each).

For Coho, my knowledge is limited to hearing that most SEAK caught Coho are of SEAK river origin. What get's dicey are what are known as transboundary rivers; rivers that flow thru our 2 countries.

My points above were intended to state that too many Chinook are caught "up north", meaning both SEAK & NBC. SEAK got hit with a total closure in early August (too late IMO) as they usually open the fishery around July 1 & have caught a large portion of the quota in a few days & leave the last 30% or so for an August opening.
 
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