Kinder Morgan goes rogue, proving it can’t be trusted

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Just because someone dosent believe in unicorns and fairy dust dose not make them an "Alt-Right". I like the majority of Albertan's are center & fiscally conservative.

As an engineer I live in a word of science & reality. Let me go further by saying "real Science". Now days anyone can find anything they want to on the internet that agrees with what they are looking for.

Unfortunately this has now lead to a flood of fake data & homemade "specialist" like yourselfs that like to state their "professional" opinion all over the internet.

Perhaps you would be more qualified to palm read or give out horoscopes.
Don't be so sure of yourself and before you start your "lock her up" shyt that the Alt-Right is famous for in Alberta you best read this.
http://calgaryherald.com/business/e...by-over-trans-mountain-pipeline-permit-delays
 
Just because someone doesn't believe in neoliberalism or Friedman economics doesn't mean they believe in "unicorns and fairy dust", neither.
 
Just because someone dosent believe in unicorns and fairy dust dose not make them an "Alt-Right". I like the majority of Albertan's are center & fiscally conservative.

Then it was a poor choice for you to use that tag to "Lock them up" like you posted if you are mainstream.

As an engineer I live in a word of science & reality. Let me go further by saying "real Science". Now days anyone can find anything they want to on the internet that agrees with what they are looking for.

Agreed there is way too much anti-science that does not reflect the reality of what is going on. What type of engineer are you?

Unfortunately this has now lead to a flood of fake data & homemade "specialist" like yourselfs that like to state their "professional" opinion all over the internet.

Perhaps you would be more qualified to palm read or give out horoscopes.

Really.... Really ..... Just what fake data did I post? Perhaps it was that ~400,000 bl/d condensate that Alberta imports into Canada? Was it the claim that the KM pipeline was for dilbit and not crude oil (WCS)? Was it the value of that dibit that you claim that is the same as Brent?
 
One thing that has to over arch any discussion of oil distribution from Alberta and Sask oilsands (or conventional production) is the fact oil will eventually be largely replaced, at least in automobiles and some other applications. Its is still a ways off, but when that happens there will still be a lot of oil left in the ground around the world. Reducing our production or limiting our capacity to get the oil to markets (the main environmentalist tactic) does nothing to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions overall, as that oil we don't produce is provided by another country (often ones with dubious human rights and terrorist support records). Yes limiting Canadian production reduces Canadian greenhouse gas totals, but someone else just increases theirs, so the environmental arguments around greenhouse gas emissions are not valid at all, oil is a global commodity market. There is a very good economic argument that Canada should be maximizing production and capacity now, so there is less CANADIAN oil left in the ground at the "end of oil" and more of other countries oil. Now proper environmental safeguards need to be in place to minimize risk, (and it can never be zero), However the argument that a spill will eventually take place is predicated that the chances of any single event are exceedingly low, but over an infinite time frame they are certain. This is true, but oil will not be flowing through these pipelines forever, it has a finite timeline. is it 30, 40, 50 years? I don't know, but technological change can happen quickly (electric vehicle technology is here and improving constantly) so the end of oil may be closer than we think. For now government needs to support alternative energy technologies as it is the right thing to do environmentally and ultimately economically, but also be pragmatic and maximize Canadian wealth now from a resource that one day will not have nearly as much value as demand for it sinks. That means getting increased transport capacity through projects like Kindermorgan and Keystone, and getting them done in an expedient manner, while ensuring risk mitigation is in place.
 
Public buy in has to be factored in as well, the ongoing promises of the revolution that's just around the bend don't give it any consideration. Electric cars that meet 99% of the needs of 99% of the people exist today for not much money but people don't want them for whatever reason.
 
speaking of "level of disregard for legal proceedings" and a "...a slap in the face to our democratic ideals...". Are we "locking-up" kinder folks, now?:

NEB rejects Kinder Morgan proposal to limit debate

By National Observer in News, Energy, Politics | November 4th 2017
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/11/04/news/neb-rejects-kinder-morgan-proposal-limit-debate

IMO there should be time limits on these hearings and consultations. No different than if you were to take a wealthy entity to court, they shouldn't be allowed to drag it through the system for years bleeding you dry. No different than ones right to a speedy trial in the legal system. Also how does either side know when to quit if they don't get their way? Just look at this place we'll go back and forth over and over and over until Dad comes in and shuts us down! lol
 
Then it was a poor choice for you to use that tag to "Lock them up" like you posted if you are mainstream.



Agreed there is way too much anti-science that does not reflect the reality of what is going on. What type of engineer are you?



Really.... Really ..... Just what fake data did I post? Perhaps it was that ~400,000 bl/d condensate that Alberta imports into Canada? Was it the claim that the KM pipeline was for dilbit and not crude oil (WCS)? Was it the value of that dibit that you claim that is the same as Brent?

I am a Petroleum Engineer. I work mainly with Conventional oil, how ever do some work in Heavy oil (WCS). I work on everything from drilling, completions, Fracing, Enhanced oil recovery, Facility's & pipelines & some processing. I have worked Western Canada, along with some Texas & Oklahoma fields from Canada. I am part of a small Canadian owned company that was started up ~7 yrs ago. I am one of many who are proud of what they do & know that we do it safer, & cleaner than anywhere else on the planet. All of the people who started the company are either Ranchers, Farmers & avid outdoorsmen who all want to leave the world a better place then how it was handed to us. As an Engineer my job is not to say "We Cant" its to find how we can. & that means environmentally. I know that seems like an oxymoron to most, but I just wish folks could see how far things have come & are going. The oil sands have given this province a black eye. I will be the first to admit that big mistakes were made in the early days & we are still living for those sins.

Alberta produces ~1.5MM BOPD that is conventional production (that last time I looked).

I do admit GLG that you haven't given any false data & for that reason I should have not claimed you have. In fact you are one of the few who has back up from reputable sources. The only exception would be claims that the oil industry is a dying industry with less demand. If that claim was not form you then I apologize, as I think it was?.. Oil demand is in fact increasing at huge rates that we can hardly keep up with. The surplus of oil in the market has caused prices to drop. This in return has greatly increased demand. Truth is as soon as oil becomes cheaper the more the world consumes it. The reason that oil prices are rebounding is because the worlds increased demand for oil is chewing through the surplus are a rapid rate.

Lastly, being compared to a "Trumph" supporter is a terrible insult to me. I would rather be called many things & don't like it when my fellow Canadians who live in this province are labelled. I think labelling anyone is wrong. I do believe that law breakers should be looked up & have respect for the rule of law.

I am terrified at the thought of that oil continuing to move on rail cars. That is one of the most unsecure methods of transportation that is a ticking time bomb. Those trains travel the most remote parts of the province & would make a response to clean up very delayed & not efficient. You can not have a ERP for every km of track. As much as folks hate the fact they need to understand that oil will keep moving. In pipelines or Trains & we need to insure it is done in the safest method possible.

As Canadians we need to be able to have these conversations. As Canadians we also need to value the importance of our Confederacy. This is hard as we are such a divided country at times on many issues.

I will be the first to admit to throwing stones in a glass house. This is a passionate debate that both sides feel very strongly about. In the end one side will not be happy & the results will shape the way of the future. However regardless of the outcome one thing will not change, & that's the oil making it to port. The terminal will be expanded & the real debate here is how will the oil arrive there. I can only hope that it is not via Rail.


Josh
 
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I am terrified at the thought of that oil continuing to move on rail cars. That is one of the most unsecure methods of transportation that is a ticking time bomb. Those trains travel the most remote parts of the province & would make a response to clean up very delayed & not efficient.
Costlier and more dangerous crude by rail set to rise again as oil production swells
By Kyle Bakx, CBC News Posted: Oct 31, 2017
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/crude-by-rail-fort-hills-firstenergy-ihs-1.4375789

More charges against Irving for oil transport violations
Global National
November 2 2017
https://globalnews.ca/video/3841077/more-charges-against-irving-for-oil-transport-violations

Cenovus ready to ship more crude by rail as pipeline squeeze looms
Deborah Jaremko
Nov. 2, 2017
http://www.jwnenergy.com/article/2017/11/cenovus-ready-ship-more-crude-rail-pipeline-squeeze-looms/
 
Costlier and more dangerous crude by rail set to rise again as oil production swells
By Kyle Bakx, CBC News Posted: Oct 31, 2017
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/crude-by-rail-fort-hills-firstenergy-ihs-1.4375789

More charges against Irving for oil transport violations
Global National
November 2 2017
https://globalnews.ca/video/3841077/more-charges-against-irving-for-oil-transport-violations

Cenovus ready to ship more crude by rail as pipeline squeeze looms
Deborah Jaremko
Nov. 2, 2017
http://www.jwnenergy.com/article/2017/11/cenovus-ready-ship-more-crude-rail-pipeline-squeeze-looms/
Pipeline corrosion an accident waiting to happen. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/09/04/news/why-corrosion-might-take-down-energy-east
 
Sounds like a refinery near the source is the best option - agreed?
 


Corrosion is a real threat but it can be monitored & controlled. There are chemical programs as well as ways to monitor that are a standard. There are millions of km of pipeline in north America & the amount of leaks vs is extremely low. The vintage of a pipeline plays a huge role in this threat as it has not had the technology in the early days of prevention. However there is "smart pigs" that are ran inside of pipes that provide an xray of every inch of pipe so wall lose can be monitored.

If corrosion is a concerns then I would be just as concerned with the large pipeline that runs directly to the Vancouver airport. That is a refined product that will not breakdown and be consumed by microbes that same way raw crude oil is. Just saying...

It is much safer to transport this oil in a controlled environment such as pipeline vs rail.....
 
Agreed. Maximizes value to the country as well.

The question is... What do you do with all the refined product after its made? Pipelines to the coast for export? I would rater have crude oil than gasoline traveling in the lines... Scary just to think of.

Lastly & most importantly, no market for the refined product. Most importers are set up to refine the oil & do not want a marked up refined product. The extra cost of transporting refined products that are not near as stable adds so much cost that importers are not interested. Also the typically the importing country's have a much lower level of environmental standards & they can refine for a fraction of the cost we do.

Now the argument of keeping it in Canada is a good one... But again you need to transport it... The carbon foot print of tank trucks driving the stuff over the country would be terrible..
 
I am a Petroleum Engineer. I work mainly with Conventional oil, how ever do some work in Heavy oil (WCS). I work on everything from drilling, completions, Fracing, Enhanced oil recovery, Facility's & pipelines & some processing. I have worked Western Canada, along with some Texas & Oklahoma fields from Canada. I am part of a small Canadian owned company that was started up ~7 yrs ago. I am one of many who are proud of what they do & know that we do it safer, & cleaner than anywhere else on the planet. All of the people who started the company are either Ranchers, Farmers & avid outdoorsmen who all want to leave the world a better place then how it was handed to us. As an Engineer my job is not to say "We Cant" its to find how we can. & that means environmentally. I know that seems like an oxymoron to most, but I just wish folks could see how far things have come & are going. The oil sands have given this province a black eye. I will be the first to admit that big mistakes were made in the early days & we are still living for those sins.
I too worked in the industry for 20+ years after leaving university many years ago. Worked for Guardian Inspection then Core Labs, a couple of companies you may have heard of. I'm not an engineer but have worked with many of them in the past on technical projects.

Alberta produces ~1.5MM BOPD that is conventional production (that last time I looked).

I do admit GLG that you haven't given any false data & for that reason I should have not claimed you have. In fact you are one of the few who has back up from reputable sources. The only exception would be claims that the oil industry is a dying industry with less demand. If that claim was not form you then I apologize, as I think it was?..
No not me but you can search that if you want to.
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?search/447353/&q=dying+industry&o=date&c[user][0]=274

Oil demand is in fact increasing at huge rates that we can hardly keep up with. The surplus of oil in the market has caused prices to drop. This in return has greatly increased demand. Truth is as soon as oil becomes cheaper the more the world consumes it. The reason that oil prices are rebounding is because the worlds increased demand for oil is chewing through the surplus are a rapid rate.
Agreed and that is very troubling.

Lastly, being compared to a "Trumph" supporter is a terrible insult to me. I would rather be called many things & don't like it when my fellow Canadians who live in this province are labelled. I think labelling anyone is wrong. I do believe that law breakers should be looked up & have respect for the rule of law.
I apologize as that was not fair of me. I have tried as of late to keep my post respectful but sometimes I go too far. It's hard to be civil when I see what is happening in the current political environment.

I am terrified at the thought of that oil continuing to move on rail cars. That is one of the most unsecure methods of transportation that is a ticking time bomb. Those trains travel the most remote parts of the province & would make a response to clean up very delayed & not efficient. You can not have a ERP for every km of track. As much as folks hate the fact they need to understand that oil will keep moving. In pipelines or Trains & we need to insure it is done in the safest method possible.

As Canadians we need to be able to have these conversations. As Canadians we also need to value the importance of our Confederacy. This is hard as we are such a divided country at times on many issues.

I will be the first to admit to throwing stones in a glass house. This is a passionate debate that both sides feel very strongly about. In the end one side will not be happy & the results will shape the way of the future. However regardless of the outcome one thing will not change, & that's the oil making it to port. The terminal will be expanded & the real debate here is how will the oil arrive there. I can only hope that it is not via Rail.

Josh

Here is where we are going to have to agree to disagree on KM pipeline expansion to tidewater. Probably not for the reasons that you may think. I oppose the expansion of the oil industry in Canada. Stay the same size? Yes, but only if this industry can get a handle on GHGs. Currently Alberta has offered to cap at 100 Megatonnes (Mt) from around 70 Mt per year, present. So what this means there will be no chance that Alberta can help meet Canada's commitments unless others do more. That's not fair, we all have to do our share. Until I see a plan with action that sets a course to lowering GHG's then it's hard for me to change my position. I suspect that many of us feel this way.

Here is a video and a couple of links that you may be interested to see as it's something you need to be aware of.

http://carnegieendowment.org/2015/03/11/know-your-oil-creating-global-oil-climate-index-pub-59285

http://www.pembina.org/blog/real-ghg-trend-oilsands

This one can filter and compare oil around the world.
http://oci.carnegieendowment.org/#total-emissions?ratioSelect=perBarrel&regionSelect=North America
 
Construction notice for the Marine Terminal Upgrade, dated September 2017 below:
https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-co...WEB-COPY-WMT-Construction-Notification_F3.pdf

It appears construction of marine terminal has already started... Boating past this morning there is there is floating fence encroaching half way across Burrard Inlet to Cates Park. The fence is over 10' high and has razor wire across the top.. The floating fence appears to be consistent with the “proposed temporary use area for construction” in the attached link.
https://www.portvancouver.com/wp-co...on-map_VFPA-project-permit-review-FOR-WEB.jpg

.........................
 
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