immature Chinook salmon

Discussion in 'Conservation, Fishery Politics and Management.' started by Fishtofino, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Fishtofino

    Fishtofino Well-Known Member

    It was suggested to move my reply from a fishing report page to this forum.
    After a long guiding career I truly think that sport fishermen need to take the initiative regarding the dwindling Chinook numbers and close the Salmon fishery from Nov 1 until at least Mid February to let the little guys grow a bit. There is a proven thru must sampling a 10% mortality on most sport fish.

    Not sure I understand this one, do you think it's better to hammer the mature fish
    returning to spawn ?
    lets be reasonable, any fishing removes fish

    “I think the baby salmon don’t survive that well from my 30 plus years of guiding.
    I’m sure that my opinion on this subject won’t be too popular with a lot of people and I can accept that but beating up on babies trying to weed some keepers is no different than trying to catch a hatchery coho amongst a school of wild ones.”
     
  2. scott craven

    scott craven Well-Known Member

    If we end up with too many shaker's we'll change location to get away from them.
    90% of them are hatchery origin anyway.
    The way things are going , It likely won't matter in a few years anyway.
     
  3. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    I think we all have checked our lines and found a dead or near dead immature salmon on the hook from time to time.
    How you release the salmon is a non issue as they have already drowned.
    When we fish in the winter we are almost always fishing deep with downriggers and often in area's where these immature salmon congregate and can be found in large numbers.
    It is not unusual to hook 12 or more of these immature feeders in a couple of hours or less, as they are very aggressive.
    There is no sport in catching these fish.
    Same can be said of the 3 or 4 pounders that are so common in the winter.
    AND I disagree we should not be concerned because they are hatchery
     
    tincan, Whitebuck and SpringFever552 like this.
  4. scott craven

    scott craven Well-Known Member

    Lol, sounds like you're not practicing what you preach.
     
  5. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    Hi Scott
    I have the greatest respect for you as a fisherman and regular poster on this site BUT
    What do you base that comment on Scott???
    I certainly do practice what I preach!!!
    Because I suggest finding a drowned immature salmon on the end of my line on occasion is completely different then targeting immature salmon during the winter.
    Do you recall this discussion started with a post of a member watching a soon to be fishing guide taking salmon which appeared to be undersized off Constance Bank.
     
  6. profisher

    profisher Well-Known Member

    The most import fish to reproduction and continuation of the runs are mature spawners. These are the 1 to 3 percent remaining after 3-5 years of life in fresh and salt water. A good portion of the immature Chinook caught during the winter months in the rec fishery would not survive to be mature adults regardless. If you want a more valid and likely a way more unpoplualr suggestion that would be effective at bring the fish back that are scarce...no retention of fish over 30 pounds...(.what ever that average length would be) with a condition that it be revisited when those fish respond well to those measures. Then put in some retention limits on those fish that prevent the downhill slide from happening again..
     
  7. profisher

    profisher Well-Known Member

    Having said what I did...have any fishing restrictions put in place in the last 20 years produced the results we all seek? Are there annual sockeye openings, have Coho limits returned to normal with the retention of wild fish? Those Coho restrictions went in place back in the late 90's. The best solution is everyone sticking together...us, commi's and FN to force government to produce more fish. Otherwise we won't see much improvement in any of our lifetimes.
     
  8. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    You are absolutely right Profisher
    But more fishing restrictions are most likely on the way at the same time DFO continues to ignore the impact of the Fish Farm Sea Lice and disease.
    YOU are to be congratulated for your efforts on bringing the Chinook Sooke hatchery up and running!!!
    These efforts are our best hope.
    And at the same time the DFO refuse to allow the highly successful Esqjuimalt Anglers Chinook net pet program to continue after many successful years. Go figure...eh
    If there have been any changes on that front, please let me know.
    This local fishery is and has been an important contributor to both sport fishermen AND the Orcas who come thru 3 or 4 times each year right off the Victoria Breakwater to feed.
    Meanwhile I still stand by my comments we should not be targeting undersized and immature winter springs.
     
  9. scott craven

    scott craven Well-Known Member

    Here are 2 posts that would suggest that you are fishing them and yet
    saying that we shouldn't ??

    "Just have to get this off my chest and it may not be a popular opinion!
    We can't be hammering these springs 12 months a year, especially when they are nothing more then barely legal."

      • "When we fish in the winter we are almost always fishing deep with downriggers and often in area's where these immature salmon congregate and can be found in large numbers.
        It is not unusual to hook 12 or more of these immature feeders in a couple of hours or less, as they are very aggressive.
      • There is no sport in catching these fish."

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  10. fogged in

    fogged in Well-Known Member

    Hi again Scott
    I find it quite interesting you choose to attack me.
    I do not fish winter springs off Sooke, the flats, Constance or the waterfront (or anywhere else) but I am very aware and informed about those who do.
    If you take acceptation to my opinion on targeting immature Chinook feel free to say so, but there is nothing to be gained by attacking me personally!!!
    Not like you to make personal attacks...I must have struck a cord. lol
     
  11. blindmonkey

    blindmonkey Active Member

    I think there might be confusion in your use of the word “we” fogged in. I think you meant it as the collective “we” as in all fishermen however it can be interpreted as we meaning you and your fishing partners. Just a thought.
     
    SpringFever552 and fogged in like this.
  12. Fishmyster

    Fishmyster Active Member

    Well this is a nice thread. It should serve well in turning sport fishermen against other sport fishermen!
     
    bones, I Love Haida Gwaii and Derby like this.
  13. scott craven

    scott craven Well-Known Member

    No attack, merely observation.
     
  14. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    Disengage. It isn't worth it. We have way more bigger things to worry about right now. The winter fishery isn't going anywhere. This thread is ridiculous.
     
    Kildonan, scott craven and Derby like this.
  15. Derby

    Derby Well-Known Member

    Really!!!..... with all that is going on in the fisheries it comes down too this ..:rolleyes:... lets restrict our selves even more just because a hand full of people enjoy the winter spring fishery.... Then on top of that justify our beliefs bye putting someone down because they do enjoy the fishery... shameful at best..:(.. This is a open fishery for the time being and some people, not a lot enjoy it...so please enjoy the fishery .:)
     
  16. Fishtofino

    Fishtofino Well-Known Member

    Unless i'm mistaken this forum is for besides fishing reports, a place to exchange ideas and voice one's opinion.

    Sorry if some don't agree with others.
     
  17. Fishtofino

    Fishtofino Well-Known Member

    But maybe more Chinooks would survive to a mature fish if they weren't killed as an under size? That is merely the premise of my original idea.

    I knew this would not be a popular subject but I've said my piece.
     
    Whitebuck likes this.
  18. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    LET IT GO.
     
  19. california

    california Active Member

    Most sport endeavors, hunting or fishing often have seasons, and the seasons are usually to protect the stocks in some form or another. Why should the chinook fishery which is endangered be any different. A couple of month break while the fish are developing and feeding aggressively makes sense, leave the little fish alone for a while so you are not shaking 10 or more off for every one keeper. Its not only the nearly dead ones that are the problem, but the ones that come up pumping blood, or had their mouth damaged, or have injuries you can not notice. These fish are going to swim away and die. The compiled data for sport fishing estimates about 12% "release" mortality (on the fish landed and released) , with about another 7% of "dropoff" mortality (fish that die due to predator removal or that are hooked, get off the line but are injured). So some of the fish you land are going to die, and some of the ones you don't land are also going to die. Between the ones landed but undersized and all the missed bites that can be a lot of fish in a day on these rearing grounds. For these juvenile fish the numbers could be higher. These are fish that have made it out of the river and estuary where most of the mortality has been shown to occur (from predation and disease) are large enough to feed aggressively, and have reasonable chances of surviving until they are ready to return to the river. Not fishing them during this time seems like a good idea.
     
  20. Fishtofino

    Fishtofino Well-Known Member

    I did ffs
     

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