human-caused-climate-change-has-rerouted-an-entire-river
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Study on impact of climate change on snowpack
April 18, 2017
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-impact-climate-snowpack.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14996
April 18, 2017
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-impact-climate-snowpack.html
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14996
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3639472
Here's the article I read yesterday about this event, it offers a bit more info about the cycle or the river in question. Not nearly as dire of a perspective.
Here's the article I read yesterday about this event, it offers a bit more info about the cycle or the river in question. Not nearly as dire of a perspective.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Climate change steals river
Overnight a river in Northern Canada disappeared. A glacier had retreated and allowed the water upstream to sneak out via a different path. The water now ends up in the Pacific 1300 km away from the Bering sea where it used to emerge.
A close-up view of the ice-walled canyon at the terminus of the Kaskawulsh Glacier, with recently collapsed ice blocks. This canyon now carries almost all meltwater from the toe of the glacier down the Kaskawulsh Valley and toward the Gulf of Alaska.
Credit: Jim Best/University of Illinois
You might think this event has happened every time glaciers retreated in the last 30 million years, but you would be wrong. Really, this is due to coal-fired power stations.
In a report published on Monday in the journal Nature Geoscience, Dr. Shugar and his colleagues provide a detailed analysis of how an atmosphere warmed by fossil-fuel emissions has led to the river’s dramatic disappearance.
“To me, it’s kind of a metaphor for what can happen with sudden change induced by climate,” said John Clague, who holds a chair in natural hazard research at Simon Fraser University and was a co-author on the report.
Let’s play River-trivia — all the other times the world warmed, the river rerouted more slowly because:
The conclusion relies on a recently developed computer model that shows it is essentially impossible that the glacier could have receded so much and so quickly without the influence of human-induced climate change overlaid atop its natural fluctuations over decades and centuries.
Researchers were shocked (they are always shocked):
The discovery unfolded after Dr. Shugar and another co-author, Jim Best, first encountered the lingering trickle that is now all that remains of the Slims River.
“We were pretty shocked,” Dr. Shugar said. While the pair already had a sense that something was up, based on local news reports, “we had no idea what was really in store.”
Though his fellow author Clague predicted this himself ten years ago:
Clague began studying this glacier years ago for the Geological Survey of Canada. He observed that Kluane Lake, which is Yukon’s largest lake, had changed its water level by about 40 feet (12 meters) a few centuries ago. He concluded that the Slims River that feeds it had appeared as the glacier advanced, and a decade ago predicted the river would disappear again as the glacier retreated.
REFERENCE
Daniel H. Shugar, John J. Clague, James L. Best, Christian Schoof, Michael J. Willis, Luke Copland, Gerard H. Roe. River piracy and drainage basin reorganization led by climate-driven glacier retreat. Nature Geoscience, 2017; DOI: 10.1038/ngeo2932
Overnight a river in Northern Canada disappeared. A glacier had retreated and allowed the water upstream to sneak out via a different path. The water now ends up in the Pacific 1300 km away from the Bering sea where it used to emerge.
A close-up view of the ice-walled canyon at the terminus of the Kaskawulsh Glacier, with recently collapsed ice blocks. This canyon now carries almost all meltwater from the toe of the glacier down the Kaskawulsh Valley and toward the Gulf of Alaska.
Credit: Jim Best/University of Illinois
You might think this event has happened every time glaciers retreated in the last 30 million years, but you would be wrong. Really, this is due to coal-fired power stations.
In a report published on Monday in the journal Nature Geoscience, Dr. Shugar and his colleagues provide a detailed analysis of how an atmosphere warmed by fossil-fuel emissions has led to the river’s dramatic disappearance.
“To me, it’s kind of a metaphor for what can happen with sudden change induced by climate,” said John Clague, who holds a chair in natural hazard research at Simon Fraser University and was a co-author on the report.
Let’s play River-trivia — all the other times the world warmed, the river rerouted more slowly because:
- ice doesn’t always melt when things warm.
- water sometimes flows uphill.
- because, magic.
The conclusion relies on a recently developed computer model that shows it is essentially impossible that the glacier could have receded so much and so quickly without the influence of human-induced climate change overlaid atop its natural fluctuations over decades and centuries.
Researchers were shocked (they are always shocked):
The discovery unfolded after Dr. Shugar and another co-author, Jim Best, first encountered the lingering trickle that is now all that remains of the Slims River.
“We were pretty shocked,” Dr. Shugar said. While the pair already had a sense that something was up, based on local news reports, “we had no idea what was really in store.”
Though his fellow author Clague predicted this himself ten years ago:
Clague began studying this glacier years ago for the Geological Survey of Canada. He observed that Kluane Lake, which is Yukon’s largest lake, had changed its water level by about 40 feet (12 meters) a few centuries ago. He concluded that the Slims River that feeds it had appeared as the glacier advanced, and a decade ago predicted the river would disappear again as the glacier retreated.
REFERENCE
Daniel H. Shugar, John J. Clague, James L. Best, Christian Schoof, Michael J. Willis, Luke Copland, Gerard H. Roe. River piracy and drainage basin reorganization led by climate-driven glacier retreat. Nature Geoscience, 2017; DOI: 10.1038/ngeo2932
from p. 4-5, Shugar et al. 2017:
"Implications of drainage reorganization
The piracy of Slims River has five important downstream implications.
First, the level of Kluane Lake has fallen and may fall further, potentially below its outlet at the north end of the lake (Fig. 1). If this happens, Kluane Lake will become a closed basin.
Second, the large supply of sediment to Kluane Lake from Slims River has ended, with unknown effects on the structure and chemistry of the lake and its ecosystems. For example, in summer 2016, massive afternoon dust storms occurred almost daily on the nearly abandoned Slims River floodplain (Supplementary Fig. 3) due to the lower lake level, possibly altering nutrient fluxes to the lake.
Third, Slims, Kaskawulsh and Alsek rivers must now all adjust to altered discharges. For example, as flow and sediment transport in Slims River have decreased greatly, channel stability there may increase, resulting in conversion from a braided to a wandering or meandering river planform. Increased flows in Kaskawulsh River may increase sediment conveyance and bank erosion.
Fourth, large-scale changes to drainage basin geometry and re-routing of meltwater may introduce considerable changes to fish populations and habitat, including effects produced by the timing of flows.
Fifth, assuming that Kaskawulsh Glacier continues to thin and recede, Kaskawulsh River may advance its drainage headward (northward) into the easily erodible Slims River valley fill and towards Kluane Lake, thereby capturing the discharge of the small mountain streams that previously joined Slims River. It is noteworthy that the present head of Kaskawulsh River is 25m below the current level of Kluane Lake and, as a consequence, there is gravitational potential to drive continued expansion of the Kaskawulsh River catchment towards the lake (Fig. 5). Thus, over time, headward erosion could result in Kaskawulsh River reaching the south end of Kluane Lake and re-establishing its former southerly drainage to the Pacific Ocean."
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
You missed the point again, I wasn't debating the negative consequences of it just that it's maybe not this freak out of the norm event totally caused by your fossil fuel consumption. I can cut and paste too;
It's certainly not unusual to see rapid drainage changes in and around these glaciers. It's a common situation," Bond said.
It's possible the Slims River was only ever just a temporary variance in the landscape — a 300-odd year hydrological whim.
Scientists say it only began flowing around the year 1700, when the so-called "Little Ice Age" caused the Kaskawulsh glacier to advance, and then divert most of its melt water from the Kaskawulsh River to the Slims Valley.
The way you're expecting it to stay for ever doesn't make sense and wanting to point fingers is just more fear mongering it's literally existed for barely a fraction of a blink in geological terms, get a grip. Drum up some posts on how the increased freshwater now going to the Pacific will have positive effects on other watersheds. Balance = credibility, not one sided fear mongering. Besides didn't you just say not 3 weeks ago you were going to respect admins wishes? That lasted just as long as the last time you said the same thing.
It's certainly not unusual to see rapid drainage changes in and around these glaciers. It's a common situation," Bond said.
It's possible the Slims River was only ever just a temporary variance in the landscape — a 300-odd year hydrological whim.
Scientists say it only began flowing around the year 1700, when the so-called "Little Ice Age" caused the Kaskawulsh glacier to advance, and then divert most of its melt water from the Kaskawulsh River to the Slims Valley.
The way you're expecting it to stay for ever doesn't make sense and wanting to point fingers is just more fear mongering it's literally existed for barely a fraction of a blink in geological terms, get a grip. Drum up some posts on how the increased freshwater now going to the Pacific will have positive effects on other watersheds. Balance = credibility, not one sided fear mongering. Besides didn't you just say not 3 weeks ago you were going to respect admins wishes? That lasted just as long as the last time you said the same thing.
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Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Please agent high light the personal attack on you. What a pathetic comment. I think we need to have a safe space made up on this forum just for agent aqua so he can feel safe.
triplenickel
Well-Known Member
"Not much to debate, I believe the reports that the river has moved. I'll even go so far as to say it will again. Remember your pledges to admin, that debate is forbidden.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
AgentAqua is the single biggest contributor of new useful environmental and fishing related news on this forum. He posts all this information so others on this forum can stay informed. If his news items do not fit in with your views, and you rarely like the info he posts why not simply use the ignore feature on the forum.
You will never have to read any more of his posts which you obviously never agree with anyways. Why turn everything he posts into a never ending argument. It is almost a given that a few on this forum disagree with everything he posts, but others on the site do enjoy his informative posts (even if you don't).
I just want to say I appreciate all the info you post AA, and thank you for all your contributions over the years. Sometimes what you post does not interest me, and I simply don't read it. That said, I always appreciate the time and effort you make to keep others informed. Keep up the good work agentaqua, and thank you for your time and efforts. Don't let the minority of detractors keep you from doing what you love to do on this forum. Many on here appreciate your contributions. Don't let the vocal minority stop you from continuing with your informative posts.
You will never have to read any more of his posts which you obviously never agree with anyways. Why turn everything he posts into a never ending argument. It is almost a given that a few on this forum disagree with everything he posts, but others on the site do enjoy his informative posts (even if you don't).
I just want to say I appreciate all the info you post AA, and thank you for all your contributions over the years. Sometimes what you post does not interest me, and I simply don't read it. That said, I always appreciate the time and effort you make to keep others informed. Keep up the good work agentaqua, and thank you for your time and efforts. Don't let the minority of detractors keep you from doing what you love to do on this forum. Many on here appreciate your contributions. Don't let the vocal minority stop you from continuing with your informative posts.
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Why would I ever ignore AA's posts. He has repeatedly displayed that he is more than willing to let false and exaggerated claims against canadian industry fly and this behaviour is telling and should not be left unchecked or unchallenged by forum members who wish to put forth their 2 cents. He/she does this in complete anonymity in a forum community that is made up of many individuals who know each other. Yes an anonymous presence is totally acceptable however given agents approach I find it very suspicious which is also equally legit.
I absolutely enjoy agents post and contributions as well as I do TBG's however I feel at some point individuals on this forum should self moderate. In agents case he should be a person of his word and TBG should limit the amount he/she posts in order to let threads flow and be more inviting for others to participate. TBG you should start your very own blog where you can share the **** out of all that knowledge you have.
I absolutely enjoy agents post and contributions as well as I do TBG's however I feel at some point individuals on this forum should self moderate. In agents case he should be a person of his word and TBG should limit the amount he/she posts in order to let threads flow and be more inviting for others to participate. TBG you should start your very own blog where you can share the **** out of all that knowledge you have.
TheBigGuy
Well-Known Member
No offense birdsnest, but we already have plenty of politicians looking out for Canadian industries interests. They really don't need you looking out for their well being on our fishing forum. They have plenty of money to pay for politicians support and expensive advertising campaigns to sway public opinion in their favor..
I appreciate your viewpoint, but I do not personally agree with it in most cases. I will self-moderate in this case as you suggest and remove myself from further discussion on this thread. In leaving I will say one thing, perhaps it is not my over posting that is the root of the issue on this forum. Perhaps it is the lack of others wanting to contribute regularly that makes my posts seem too frequent to some. If the majority were contributing on a regular basis instead of being lurkers, then my volume of posts would seem very minor on this forum. Maybe the relatively minor amounts of posts I make seems large only for the fact that there are so few actively contributing members these days. Perhaps many of the active posters that used to frequent this forum would still be here if they weren't pounced on so often. I just find it strange that I get criticized for over posting when my post total is relatively low compared to many members who have 3 to 5 times as many posts as myself. I would never dream of criticizing any of the members with far more posts than myself. They should be congratulated for making this forum a vibrating, informative, and entertaining place to come. What is the point in coming to a forum with little new content. In my opinion people should be encouraging more sharing and posting on the forum, not pouncing on the members that actually participate regularly.
Perhaps the lurkers should be participating more, not the regulars contributing less. Why don't you think about that for a bit, before you bash guys who actually enjoy contributing on a regular basis.
I appreciate your viewpoint, but I do not personally agree with it in most cases. I will self-moderate in this case as you suggest and remove myself from further discussion on this thread. In leaving I will say one thing, perhaps it is not my over posting that is the root of the issue on this forum. Perhaps it is the lack of others wanting to contribute regularly that makes my posts seem too frequent to some. If the majority were contributing on a regular basis instead of being lurkers, then my volume of posts would seem very minor on this forum. Maybe the relatively minor amounts of posts I make seems large only for the fact that there are so few actively contributing members these days. Perhaps many of the active posters that used to frequent this forum would still be here if they weren't pounced on so often. I just find it strange that I get criticized for over posting when my post total is relatively low compared to many members who have 3 to 5 times as many posts as myself. I would never dream of criticizing any of the members with far more posts than myself. They should be congratulated for making this forum a vibrating, informative, and entertaining place to come. What is the point in coming to a forum with little new content. In my opinion people should be encouraging more sharing and posting on the forum, not pouncing on the members that actually participate regularly.
Perhaps the lurkers should be participating more, not the regulars contributing less. Why don't you think about that for a bit, before you bash guys who actually enjoy contributing on a regular basis.
Just another fine example of why these climate change/environmental threads cannot survive on a fishing forum. Yet again, some of you just can't post your point of view without taking a swipe at someone else in the debate, which has nothing to do with the topic and turns everything into a pile of dung...so tiresome. I was told in a statement not long ago " your sandbox, your rules" but the truth is it is everyone's sandbox until one or two members decide to crap in it and try to make it their own play place. At that point we have the distinct pleasure of having to go and remove the manure. Consider this one cleaned up.
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