HST or PST check out this link..too long for me to post

Quite simply..I don't want to pay 7% more for things than I did 12 months ago..
My family income has not gone up by 7%
I have not seen any government services improved in the last 11 months since the tax..

I am pretty sick and tired of seeing stickman ads saying how paying more tax is good for me and my family
Ads that I have paid for with my tax $$... more $$ wasted away...yet again.
 
Quite simply..I don't want to pay 7% more for things than I did 12 months ago..
My family income has not gone up by 7%
I have not seen any government services improved in the last 11 months since the tax..

I am pretty sick and tired of seeing stickman ads saying how paying more tax is good for me and my family
Ads that I have paid for with my tax $$... more $$ wasted away...yet again.

First of all you might be paying 7% more on 20% of the things you buy, not 100%.

If you vote for the HST you will be paying 2% less on 100% of the things you buy. That means you will be paying less tax over all than under the PST/GST system.

Do a little research, stop listening to stickmen, and definitely stop listening to Vanderzalm and the Federation of Labor. It is not about logic with them.... it is political and for them, it's about "sticking it to the government". Everyone will have their turn to do that when the next election comes about.

The HST vote is about what is the best tax policy; HST or PST/GST.
 
Yes Island girl I hear you.

I sold my house
HST/Taxes $2410
Movers HST/TAXES $180
Pickup truck last summer HST/TAXES $3120
I could go on and on.
I'm tapped out, don't you government seals get it?
There is NO MORE MONEY. NONE. I can't simply raise my income by saying I need more therefore you must pay me more.
You took $5710 from me on those few items.
Add on income tax, gas tax, user fees, etc, etc.
Its about HOW MUCH TOTAL TAX is being taken.
ADD IT ALL UP.
Do your own spread sheets/math make your own informed choice.
Dan.
 
Tax Freedom Day for BC this year was June 5. So from Jan 1 to June 4 you've been sending ALL your money to one government or another. Makes you sick, don't it?
 
Yes Island girl I hear you.

I sold my house
HST/Taxes $2410
Movers HST/TAXES $180
Pickup truck last summer HST/TAXES $3120
I could go on and on.
I'm tapped out, don't you government seals get it?
There is NO MORE MONEY. NONE. I can't simply raise my income by saying I need more therefore you must pay me more.
You took $5710 from me on those few items.
Add on income tax, gas tax, user fees, etc, etc.
Its about HOW MUCH TOTAL TAX is being taken.
ADD IT ALL UP.
Do your own spread sheets/math make your own informed choice.
Dan.

Not sure I understand your point as under PST/GST you would have paid the same tax..... Paying tax is not fun for anyone, but how does the province pay for healthcare, education, roads etc??
 
Yes Island girl I hear you.

I sold my house
HST/Taxes $2410
Movers HST/TAXES $180
Pickup truck last summer HST/TAXES $3120
I could go on and on.
I'm tapped out, don't you government seals get it?
There is NO MORE MONEY. NONE. I can't simply raise my income by saying I need more therefore you must pay me more.
You took $5710 from me on those few items.
Add on income tax, gas tax, user fees, etc, etc.
Its about HOW MUCH TOTAL TAX is being taken.
ADD IT ALL UP.
Do your own spread sheets/math make your own informed choice.
Dan.

Dan,

Given the examples you've used, just so you know -- if the HST gets voted down and we go back to the PST/GST system, the taxes you paid on the items noted will be EXACTLY the same at 12%. Next year, they'd drop to 11% and then 10% by 2014 so in the end, if you do these things again you'll pay less.

Under the plan, your Provincial Income Tax also drops.

For boaters/fishermen the following items will actually cost LESS under the new HST system once it drops (for now, these are the same):

- buying a boat
- buying an outboard motor
- fishing tackle
- bait
- repairs/parts
- booze (rate drops from 15% to 12%)

I'd much rather pay a Consumption Tax than an Income Tax any day. Consumption Taxes paid in greater proportions by those who consume more -- generally those with higher incomes. These taxes are also completely avoidable -- with my now higher take-home income, I can choose to save the additional money for my retirement (with higher income taxes I don't have that choice).

Finally, while our taxes are higher in Canada than some other countries (e.g. the USA), I'd much rather be a middle-class or low-income person here and get sick, than be faced with a complete wipe out of my life-savings with an unplanned illness for me or my family down there. The majority of our taxes pay for our Health Care system, and while it isn't perfect -- there ain't no way their taking it away from me.

As others have said above -- this isn't about the Liberal Government. It's about the best application of a tax. The Liberals royally screwed up the implementation of the tax, and as a result, Campbell lost his job (and that's now behind us). IMHO it would be nuts to now remove this tax, increase our income taxes, pay more on goods, and see the province go further into debt -- just to get back at the Liberals even further.
 
Gordo wasn't out of work for long. He was just appointed Canada's High Commissioner to Britain (ambassador). Betcha that comes with some nice pay and perks. Politicians who fall in crap always come up roses because they all look out for each other.
 
They definitely do not want UIC as they know it is not reliable. So they have their own medicare, and pension system all provided by the taxpayer.
 
The studies have revealed that average familes pay more than $350 per year with the HST and if you actually go out and buy some big items hit by the HST you are paying 7% more!! OUCH! We are payiing the 1.3 billion that big corporations get a break on under the HST. And who can believe that the HST will be reduced? Trust the Liberals? I don't think so. This is the easiest vote ever. ADIOS HST!
 
The studies have revealed that average familes pay more than $350 per year with the HST and if you actually go out and buy some big items hit by the HST you are paying 7% more!! OUCH! We are payiing the 1.3 billion that big corporations get a break on under the HST. And who can believe that the HST will be reduced? Trust the Liberals? I don't think so. This is the easiest vote ever. ADIOS HST!

Are you referring to the Vanderzalm studies? :confused:

If you studied a little basic economics you would realize that giving a corporation a tax break means the corporation can produce product at a lower price. As a result the corporation sells more product which means it can hire more employees. This is all good for the BC economy. The other thing that economics teaches is that consumers pay the entire tax bill. When you require a business to pay more taxes the business just adds it on to it's selling price. End result is the consumer pays the taxes on a higher end product price.

The HST reduction is not controlled by the provincial government as it is a federal tax. The Federal government has put into law that the HST will reduce to 10% in 2014. But then you probably know that as it has been in the news for almost a month...

Why would anyone want to pay 12% tax when it will be reduced to 10% tax? That's where the anti-HST crowd needs to stop their anti-Campbell crusade (he resigned months ago) and vote purely on the merits of the HST.
 
The studies have revealed that average familes pay more than $350 per year with the HST and if you actually go out and buy some big items hit by the HST you are paying 7% more!! OUCH!

The study you are referencing is this one: http://hstinbc.com/making_your_choice/independent_panel/you,-your-family-and-sales-taxes -- and it was quoted in the TC here: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/costing+average+family+annually/4726693/story.html

It was written and published before the announcement that the HST will be reduced to 10%. It's the reduction to 10% that has finally swung my vote -- call it a bribe if you will, but I'm in.

With the tax reduced to 10%, the average consumer in every tax bracket measured PAYS LESS TAX, and there is a benefit of $120. See here: http://www.hstinbc.ca/making_your_choice/the_new_hst/

We are payiing the 1.3 billion that big corporations get a break on under the HST. Well, this is partially true -- but once again, does not take into account that under the new tax law, that business taxes were actually increased by 2%. However, the big benefit to BC Business is that they no longer pay PST on products and services that they have to purchase in order to product their goods and services. Lets say for example you make fishing lures -- in the past you had to pay 7% PST on the raw metal from your local shop. The local metal shop had to pay 7% PST from his Wholesaler, and the Wholesaler had to pay 7% PST from the foundry. All of that tax paid at every step used to be embedded into your cost of making the fishing lure. Under the HST, none of the intermediary steps charge the HST so the net result is that you pay LESS for your raw materials, it therefore costs you less to make your lures. You can either choose to keep this additional cost savings as profit, or, pass the savings along to your customers. The reality for BC Business is that it makes us more cost competitive in a global market, increases our sales and profits which in turn make for more jobs for BC businesses -- which in the long run means we all make more money.

And who can believe that the HST will be reduced? Trust the Liberals? I don't think so. This is the easiest vote ever. ADIOS HST! Yep, valid point -- and I believe it's the key point that most people in BC are having a hard time putting to rest.

BC Liberals = HST
HST = Evil
therefore BC Liberals = Evil

However, voting away the HST does not remove the BC Liberals. All it does is costs ALL OF US more money, and takes away the cost competitiveness of BC businesses. It's kind of like shooting a Halibut with a .45 while it's flopping on the deck of your boat -- yes, it certainly kills the halibut, but likely also sinks your boat. You'll get your chance to remove the BC Liberal Party -- likely this fall (whether the HST is in place or not). We can then argue all you want about the merits and tax benefits putting the NDP back in to place will bring your pocketbook!!!

Finally, none of us know for sure that the tax will be reduced to 10% by 2014. The bill was made into LAW a few weeks back, so we can be comfortable it's more than just a promise -- and yes, the law can be removed and the tax increased. However, I believe the odds of the tax being increased or decreased are the same regardless of the party in power. If we are running a huge deficit, it will be increased. If we're running a surplus -- well, it likely won't be decreased further, but at least they can stay on plan to lower it to 10%.
 
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alwaysFishn ~ that's a lot of theory but in reality we haven't seen the creation of jobs promised by the introduction of the HST and we haven't seen a price reduction in products either so there has been no measurable benfit. Secondly the vote is for the HST 'as it is now' and that's at 12%. Laws can be changed and with the promise of 10% still years away I can't have faith that we will see that reduction. Plus even at 10% we are paying more tax on items that were not previously taxed. I'm tired of the HST theory that the liberals have been trying to brainwash people with. We've all seen the reality of the HST and it's pretty ugly.
 
Tenmile - yeah I just can't trust these 'pie-in-the-sky' liberal promises. They rammed this thing down out throats and then told us it's good for us (which were lies) and then they tried to fix it but not right away.....MAYBE in 2014. Even then we still pay more tax on items that were never previously subject to additional tax. Then they claim we'll pay less tax...yeah right. I'd like to read the fine details on that calculation. I suspect a lot of assumptions and 'best-case-scenarios' were applied. Not buying it. Tastes like sh&t.
 
alwaysFishn ~ that's a lot of theory but in reality we haven't seen the creation of jobs promised by the introduction of the HST and we haven't seen a price reduction in products either so there has been no measurable benfit. Secondly the vote is for the HST 'as it is now' and that's at 12%. Laws can be changed and with the promise of 10% still years away I can't have faith that we will see that reduction. Plus even at 10% we are paying more tax on items that were not previously taxed. I'm tired of the HST theory that the liberals have been trying to brainwash people with. We've all seen the reality of the HST and it's pretty ugly.

It's economics theory... Some pretty smart people have come up with it... not politicians.

What exactly are you expecting in price reductions from businesses? On average imbedded PST added between 1-2% to the price of their products. Is that what you are expecting in a price reduction?

Inflation is running at about 3% per year in BC. Inflation on stuff like energy to run the plant adds cost to a product, as does increased cost of materials... Doing the simple math 3% inflation, minus 2% imbedded PST, leaves an increase of 1%. I doubt you will be seeing a decrease in price based on those numbers.

Where is the support for your argument that there have not been any jobs created... Statscan apparently disagrees with you.
Employment: Up 1.3%
Labour income: Up 4.8%
Average weekly earnings: Up 3.52%
Manufacturing Sales: Up 10.3%
Retail Trade: Flat, 0.0%
Building permits: Up 14.7%
Housing starts: Up 23.2%
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/indi02k-eng.htm

Finally on the HST reduction... You are going to vote against paying less taxes because you think the government in power is going to commit political suicide by changing a law to reduce the HST to 10%? Maybe the NDP will do that, but I'm quite certain the Liberals are done with messing around with the HST!
 
omg....we can't credit the HST for those stats. We are emerging from a recession. Talk about economics 101.

And in my opinion they already committed political suicide. Just a matter of US cleaning up the mess now. Adios HST.
 
omg....we can't credit the HST for those stats. We are emerging from a recession. Talk about economics 101.

And in my opinion they already committed political suicide. Just a matter of US cleaning up the mess now. Adios HST.

What's amusing about your statement is that I was not crediting those stats to the HST. I was merely showing those stats to prove that the HST is not hurting the economy.

However if you compare BC's stats to the rest of Canada, only Alberta's numbers are better than BC's. I'll let those numbers speak for themselves.

Why don't you show a few stats to support your anti-HST stance??
 
Not to get into all the liberal lies (revenue neutral…tax grab...cough, cough) lets look at their projected job gains by 2020....they claimed the HST would create 113,000 jobs by 2020....well they now admit that the forecasts were WAY off (lies?) and the HST will create a mere 24,000 jobs by 2020. The Province of BC has lost over 30,000 jobs since the HST came in July 2010. Don’t do the math on that one.

But if we look at cost-benefit that’s 2400 hundred new HST jobs per year at a cost of $1.4 billion in extra HST tax dollars. OUCH!!

And the predicted growth attributed to HST is now so small it can’t be distinguished from normal economic growth.

Adios HST.
 
What's amusing about your statement is that I was not crediting those stats to the HST. I was merely showing those stats to prove that the HST is not hurting the economy.

However if you compare BC's stats to the rest of Canada, only Alberta's numbers are better than BC's. I'll let those numbers speak for themselves.

Why don't you show a few stats to support your anti-HST stance??

one year of HST does nothing to prove the economy has either benefited or gained from it.
wait 5 years , when people have stopped buying homes,cars,boats,meals etc.
then tell me the HST is a good tax.
Then the Gov't will be crying louder than the public, and guess how they will get more ??
they will raise the tax !
 
With the tax reduced to 10%, the average consumer in every tax bracket measured PAYS LESS TAX, and there is a benefit of $120. See here: http://www.hstinbc.ca/making_your_choice/the_new_hst/

You may save $120 on average,but you'd better hope you don't need any renos to your home or buy used vehicle or boat or build an expensive home,or have kids that like expensive bikes or Play alot of sports,cause if you do you be paying alot more with the HST.Don't let big brother fool ya.
 
Most of the best economies in the world use an HST type of tax. The last time a country introduced a PST type of tax was in 1975 and they dropped it a year later. China(the fastest growing economy in the world) uses an HST tax.

It's not uncharted waters that we are heading into. The HST has been proven as the best sales tax.

The reason it's better than the PST is that it doesn't add extra cost onto the products that we produce here in BC. This allows us to price our products so we can compete against other provinces and countries that have either an HST or no PST like Alberta.
 
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