How many salmon are lost to local seals...?

[banger17]

out of The Province this am... And no surprise really!

http://www.theprovince.com/news/loc...+salmon+species+most+risk/13427611/story.html

 

[agentaqua]

Abstract: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/cjfas-2015-0558

 

[tincan]

out of The Province this am... And no surprise really!

http://www.theprovince.com/news/loc...+salmon+species+most+risk/13427611/story.html

I kinda think this was a very big surprise, actually. As someone who has fished for 40 years in the Strait (and elsewhere in BC) I have heard for years that seals are major problem because they eat adult salmon returning to spawn and this limits the number to big fish available to rec/ comm / FN fisheries as well as those available to orcas, eagles and the freshwater ecosystem that depends on them. These studies are showing that 1) very few adult salmon are eaten by seals (statistically insignificant) 2) a HUGE number of juvenille salmon are being eaten in their first few weeks at sea (or in estuary / river). This research really flies in the face of what was typically thought about seals preying on salmon and has very different implications on how to solve this serious issue. The research teams will continue to provide suggestions on how to best deal with this issue but an indiscriminate cull is not at the top of their list for many reasons (viability, effectiveness, etc). Things are higher up on their list of remedies include: restoring seals preferred diets (forage fish) so that they don't target juvenille salmon which are not typically their #1 food choice; staggering hatchery releases so that it's not such a buffet at estuaries; improving estuary habitat for juvenille salmon to hide/feed (eelgrass, kelp, etc); removing log booms from estuaries at certain outmigration times as they really help seals relax w/o chance of predation and congregate right in prime juvenille salmon habitat (estuaries). Lots of potential solutions to the fact seals are eating tons of juvenille salmon so will be interesting to see what recommendations are followed through with. If a partial cull is part of the solution i'm sure finding volunteers to help with that won't be an issue.

 

[Whole in the Water]

One of the main causes for seals eating so many young salmon is because DFO has allowed the over fishing of the herring stocks for years, especially in the Salish Sea area. When herring stocks are plentiful seals go after them (their historic main food source) as they are easy for them to catch. This over fishing has trained whole generations of seals to focus on young, vulnerable salmon (and will be hard to re-train them). Citizens need to put pressure to get our politicians and DFO to stop caving into unsustainable, corporate greed to reduce the annual herring TAC to help our increase salmon populations.

 

[Rockfish]

Seals certainly prey on larger salmon that are on anglers lines. On south VI on some days you can get yourself a good collection of salmon jaws where the seals bite off the jaw and lure. We have a huge problem with the over population of seals in our area (Victoria more than Sooke although Sooke is catching up) and more recently have notice a large increase in the number of sea lions as they seem to be going through a population boom much as seals did years back. There does not seem to be sufficient historical levels of predators ( Transient Orca's and Humans) to actively keep the populations in the healthy range for salmon. Man has also altered the rivers and approaches along our coast with breakwaters, lower water levels, dams, fish counting barriers, bridges and night light etc which makes it easy for the seals and sea lions to hammer the fish at these bottle necks and at night. Even the spit seems to have been added to so that it acts as a better breakwater for Sooke harbour and walkable as a nice park. There was a great many more sea lions than usual last fall/late summer in Sooke Inlet and where the narrow harbour opening at the end of the spit concentrates the salmon. You can see them once in a while on the surface there with big salmon in their mouths, although many could be Coho. Sooke inlet is closed to the retention of returning Chinook by anglers but not by large and increasing numbers of seals and sea lions.

 

[tincan]

A reply from Austen Thomas, one of authors of the papers and the overall study as part of PSF's Salish Sea project:

"I gave a quick read to the forum, and it looks like a healthy discussion of the pinniped predation issues. Likely the best message to pass along to the group is contained in the conclusion paragraph of our recent CJFAS paper (below). While it is tempting to conclude that a simple removal of the predators will result in increased survival of these salmon populations, that neglects the possibility that the ultimate cause of mortality could be something other than the predator (described below), i.e. the “dead fish swimming hypothesis.” In addition, I am increasingly convinced that these opportunistic predators use salmon resources only when their preferred prey (forage fish) are not available in sufficient levels. Think about it, salmon are the only fish taxon that we supplement, pumping millions of shiny fat smolts into the system and we expect seals not to eat them. But there is strong preliminary evidence in Puget Sound that when an alternative prey item is available in high abundance (in this case northern anchovy) survival of juvenile steelhead is much greater in the Salish Sea. The concurrent diet data we have for seals in PS also supports this idea.


So if you asked me if a seal cull would work, I’d say maybe, but it’s likely just a temporary solution if a solution at all. If I called the shots, we would put every last resource into resorting the food web and the forage fish/gadoidsthat historically reduced the predation pressure on salmon populations."

 

[bones]

Seals are highly trainable animals. They return every to the same river, same time to eat the same smolts. Wouldn't removing these animals not provide a safer environment for smolts to reach deeper water?

Wouldn't removing the couple hundred seals say on the Pitt river system, not just the ones on the mouth but also the seals that are 2-5 miles up river. Wouldn't that be a positive for the system? If there where little to no seals wouldn't spawning salmon be able to spawn? Just wondering

 

[Whole in the Water]

I would agree removing these seals would help to increase salmon numbers. But I wonder if they would they just be replaced by other hungry seals? If so, it may not be much of a solution.

Me thinks the tricky part is trying to get agreement on how to "remove" these seals. Some would support a seal cull (myself included), but I think others would not. Because of this I doubt any politician would approve such a cull. The controversy that surrounds the wolf cull to help caribou numbers in BC is an example that comes to mind. These caribou are endangered and yet people still protest the wolf cull. Politicians nowadays try to avoid such controversies if at all possible.

That is why I think we need to work on other solutions that reduce seal predation on salmon - like reducing the annual amount herring harvested to create more of the seal's traditional food source. This may not be an easy to thing to do, but may be more possible than a seal cull.

 

[tincan]

Personally, I think a targeted seal cull should be part of the solution. As @Whole in the Water stated, this will be a tough sell to the public. IMO, it will require FN involvement, gov't buy-in, and some carefully worded messaging to explain to the public WHY it is needed (no chinook, no orcas, for instance). Anyways, will be interesting to see how this one plays out. I would think the rec fish, commerical and FN fisheries would all support initiatives aimed at improving juvenille salmon survival and if seal deterrents/culls are a means to do so there will be support for it. On the other hand, a lot of people (voters) will be outright livid if a cull were to take place. Will be a delicate dance.

Seals are highly trainable animals. They return every to the same river, same time to eat the same smolts. Wouldn't removing these animals not provide a safer environment for smolts to reach deeper water?

Wouldn't removing the couple hundred seals say on the Pitt river system, not just the ones on the mouth but also the seals that are 2-5 miles up river. Wouldn't that be a positive for the system? If there where little to no seals wouldn't spawning salmon be able to spawn? Just wondering

 

[GLG]

Personally, I think a targeted seal cull should be part of the solution. As @Whole in the Water stated, this will be a tough sell to the public. IMO, it will require FN involvement, gov't buy-in, and some carefully worded messaging to explain to the public WHY it is needed (no chinook, no orcas, for instance). Anyways, will be interesting to see how this one plays out. I would think the rec fish, commerical and FN fisheries would all support initiatives aimed at improving juvenille salmon survival and if seal deterrents/culls are a means to do so there will be support for it. On the other hand, a lot of people (voters) will be outright livid if a cull were to take place. Will be a delicate dance.

Don't call it a cull as then you are setting up a narrative that you don't want, find a new way to express your point.

 

[fish brain]

I'm with @tincan on this one. A seal cull might help temporarily re balance the scale, but the entire ecosystem needs to be fixed

 

[Blackmax]

One of the main causes for seals eating so many young salmon is because DFO has allowed the over fishing of the herring stocks for years, especially in the Salish Sea area. When herring stocks are plentiful seals go after them (their historic main food source) as they are easy for them to catch. This over fishing has trained whole generations of seals to focus on young, vulnerable salmon (and will be hard to re-train them). Citizens need to put pressure to get our politicians and DFO to stop caving into unsustainable, corporate greed to reduce the annual herring TAC to help our increase salmon populations.

I agree 100% but most will deny its because of herring overfishing. We watched the herring and salmon dissapear from Campbell River to Active pass.

 

[The Jackel]

Seals don't eat mature salmon, i will call ******** i have fed the pricks 5 springs in 3 days fishing for salmon this season already!!!!!!

 

[Rockfish]

There was an interesting news story on CBC recently. It was on a new cuisine that is developing in Canada by professionally trained First Nation Chefs. There are now a number of restaurants in Canada including Vancouver which serve some very good food inspired by traditional first nations diet. One of the appetizers on the menu of one of the restaurants was Seal. One of the First Nation Chefs implied they may take some flack for it but did not seem concerned. I am hoping that restaurant seal appetizer is a big seller because First Nations are perhaps the only ones who could overcome the political pressure in the short term.. I have eaten east coast seal flipper pie and it was like a dark meat beef stew and tasty.

If the human population growth curve continues at it current trajectory and the planet population pushes towards 10 billion I suspect we will not be leaving much in the way of robust large sources of protein unexploited. Down the road perhaps not all that far we may be thrilled to eat seal and ground earth worms and insects for that matter.

I agree the biggest barrier to controlling the seal population is political. It does not help that they have those big eyes relative to the size of their heads which seems to trigger the protective human parenting instinct, the cuteness factor so to speak. Now if they were worms or certain rodents, no problem.

 

[Seanut]

Kinda indicative of the dumbed down mentality when a FN can cook up a seal and shrug his shoulders and yet anyone else would be fried.

A Seal cull is definitely a way forward for Salmon stocks, no one can deny it. It's just getting past the preschool mentality that anything that looks cute should be left alone will be hard fought in the press.

 

[ericl]

Down here in WA the big problem is California Sea Lions; dunno if that is what you all are talking about. Many years ago a Biologist from Washington State University thought they would be a cute tourist attraction & began feeding them on large rafts used for mooring large vessels. They soon discovered they could pick fish outta FN Gillnets just below the Ballard Locks in Seattle, then discovered the fish get dazed by the change from salt to fresh water below the Ballard Locks. Not sure when it started, but a similar situation exists in the lower Columbia River, where commercial Gill netting takes place.

In the above example what was once a rare animal up here became common via human action (the initial feeding). At he Ballard Locks they were captured & tagged, and the "problem Sea Lions" were captured & shipped back to California where they belong. They soon returned & some were eventually killed.

These pests in BC may be an extension of the original problem down here.

 

[aheny]

It sounds like it would be productive to harass the seals who stack up in the river during the time when the juveniles are heading out.
I'd prefer a first Nations hunt, but any type of harassment which makes them leave would be great

 

[Rockfish]

Eric it would be interesting to know if DFO is actual tracking the Sea Lion Populations on South VI. I was born here and been on the water over 50 years and have never seen numbers like we have now off Sooke and in the inlet when the returning salmon turn up. We are seeing huge numbers compared to even a few years ago and many are young. It may not be a scientific controlled count but it is difficult not to conclude there are a great many more now and they are going through a population burst. As for seals back in the 60's it was a fairly uncommon occurrence to see one, but now ....

 

[ericl]

Latest on Sea Lions down here:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/sealions/questions.html

 

[ericl]

Sea Lions in Oregon was on the news last night; much of Oregon is being closed to commies.