Halibut! What do you want?

Lorne you are jumping the gun at 1 and 1 for next year...we dont even know what the bio mass is for next year...the action of 1 and 1 is a last resort in 2012 season.. if we have too...and may not even happen or may not even be approved ..I believe it may not have been even presented yet?
 
Tx Derby/Ken. We are not proposing 1 and 1 as our best option. On contrary - it is 1 and 2 with a slot limit to reduce the size of the second fish retained. This allows a guy to take a fish of any size for his first one, and can still fish for a small one on next day of multi day trip. This will not really impact rec anglers on the south coast. Most of the big fish come from the north island, mid coast and QCI. The average rec hali caught on the south coast is likely small enough to fall within the slot limit - they are small. This option has minimal impact for rec anglers and represents the best overall option for all of us to enjoy a nearly full season - what's wrong with that?

Some of you guys keep chucking me under the bus - feels like I should be burned at the stake for even trying to find a way to stretch our TAC out so we can fish for most of the summer. I haven't heard too many other options that would be workable - everyone wants to argue about ITQ's and stuff that for the immediate term will not help us this season. If you think these ideas are unworkable - what do you suggest?
 
Tx Derby/Ken. We are not proposing 1 and 1 as our best option. On contrary - it is 1 and 2 with a slot limit to reduce the size of the second fish retained. This allows a guy to take a fish of any size for his first one, and can still fish for a small one on next day of multi day trip. This will not really impact rec anglers on the south coast. Most of the big fish come from the north island, mid coast and QCI. The average rec hali caught on the south coast is likely small enough to fall within the slot limit - they are small. This option has minimal impact for rec anglers and represents the best overall option for all of us to enjoy a nearly full season - what's wrong with that?

Some of you guys keep chucking me under the bus - feels like I should be burned at the stake for even trying to find a way to stretch our TAC out so we can fish for most of the summer. I haven't heard too many other options that would be workable - everyone wants to argue about ITQ's and stuff that for the immediate term will not help us this season. If you think these ideas are unworkable - what do you suggest?


In all due respect Searun,

It is only the guides/ outfitters that are concerned about spreading out the catch out.
DFO has given us 1/2 until our allocation is filled.
The rec fisherman that I have talked to are willing to work within what DFO has given us.
IF the season closes early.. rally the troops/ protest/ go to the media.. essentially do what we had done in the past 2 years to get our percentage of TAC moved up more.

We have accomplished alot working together in the past couple years.
We have had our TAC moved up from 12% to 15%
Which is in fact a 33% increase and something to be proud of.
 
Here are my suggestions for the 10459523589th time.
Start later fish till its over. Continue to fight the good fight
Start now fish till its over. Continue to fight the good fight
or I also like the idea of the annual catch limit (defintely not my suggestion) maybe in 5 a year. (who the frick needs more then that?)

again, I think any "concessions made" are a step in the WRONG direction big time. Short term gain (for you guys not us) for long term pain. Benefit to some at the cost of many. I guess that also depends on what you consider "nearly a full season" since when does a "nearly full season" go from march to sept? It doesnt. A "nearly full season" goes from Feb 1 to Dec 31. Like the good ole days. You werent burned at the stake for trying to find solutions. You were burned at the stake for suggesting solutions that didnt and dont make sense IMO for the long term ( which what we all thought we were fighting for), you were put on the podium because the suggestions IMO are not in our best interest. But very much in your best interest. Actually in the long term they are not even in your best interest.

My feelings is this.....

Over the last few years G/O have hid under the umbrella of "rec fishing". That is and never has been the case. You are both commercial operations making money off the resource. I felt we were in a tough spot, most of knew that the " we are taxi's" bs was ridiculous, however our choice were to go with the commies, jump in with the G/O's or go out on our own. IMO Going out on our own wasnt an option at the time as Trying to unite rec fisherman is similar to trying to heard sheep with wolves running rampid. So united we stood. And we made progress. And now we are giving in. AND I DONT WANT TO GIVE IN. And well to me that has divided us. Maybe there should be three quotas within the ITQ G/O's, commies and rec guys. And you guys should have purchase quota just like anyone else that makes money off the resource. How does that sound? Not good for either of us IMO. That will further divide us and take money off your bottom line. But if you want to stay under the umbrella, you got to keep us up right. If it rains, it pours. And its pouring atm. Im not suggesting that this is the answer, because i agree we need to be united. But if we arent, then wtf? . Reunite us under one voice.


Discalimer : i used alot of "yous" and "We's" in this last post. I was not directing any of that at you personally and the 'we's" are not be speaking for anyone but my self.
 
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My question is who pays back the money to the commeracial fisherman that have spent millions of dollars to buy halibut quota if the quota is changed back to what it was in 1993.
 
I have a question - what is the proposed slot limit? Searun you say most fish on the south island are small, well sooke - sidney actually has a bigger average size then a lot of places.

I am all for extending the season by making concessions but we do need to very careful and temporary must be the focus.
 
OK, disclaimer - I am in no way in support of a slot size, possession reduction or any other action to try to make the 85/15 work and get it entrenched forever (though according to DFO's webpage it's already entrenched forever).

The foregoing notwithstanding, I understand how a slot size for a second fish within a 2 fish daily limit could be implemented, but how does a second fish slot size work if it's your second fish in possession? Unless I'm missing something, you fish day 1, catch a butt, fillet it out, vacuum seal it and get it in the freezer where you're staying (4 sealed frozen fillets permissible under the regs). Next day you go out, catch your second fish, fillet it out, etc. So is the slot size applied to your fillets? By whom and how is this creel surveyed or policed such that it'd have an effect on DFO perceived/calculated harvest rates? I happen to know for a fact that DFO Fishery Officers are no longer allowed to check coolers in vehicles or boats on trailers unless they have solid recon that suggests you were up to no good (personally know the FO who had 4 Alberta judges' entire weeks harvest spread out all over the side of the Yellowhead Hwy back in the days DFO did road checks before the ban - great story) so very little effective enforcement would be possible.

Is there anyone in the know with the ability to explain how this wacky proposal would conceivably be carried out? I'm very curious.

I have to say, whether or not the ITQ is here forever or not I do like the annual limit concept, recorded on the licence and the licence handed in. Hell, even a halibut tag for the same cost as a salmon tag makes sense to me. Those who never target them don't have to buy them those that do buy the tag and record their catch. Probably makes too much sense to get adopted.
 
My question is who pays back the money to the commeracial fisherman that have spent millions of dollars to buy halibut quota if the quota is changed back to what it was in 1993.
HAHAHA! I bought a "great" stock about 6 years ago, seemed like it was going to be a real cash cow, almost seemed too good to be true, paid just under $8.00 per share, it is now worth just over $0.02 per share. WHO is going to pay me back all of the money that I invested into my dream????

Are they changing the system back to what it was? If so, while they are at it, they can give me a call, as I have a couple of suggestions to make that can be taken care of while they are making changes. This is really great news!

If this topic garners any more responses, you should start a new thread to cover it in greater detail.;)
 
you'all should also be aware that the tribes are long lining the strait for halibut, right now. theoretically they are staying on this side of the international boundary, but knowing how they work, they are more than likely where the halibut are. keep yur eyes peeled for these rapists.
 
Some more input:
Just got back from Ukee doing some pre season boat prep. Never have I seen the regular aquaintances so happy to see me! I have always been of the first seasonal guides to arrive to set up shop for the summer. Apparently this last winter has been really dismal. Kathleen from the delli said this was the quietest winter in more than 15 years. Luckily all of her regular staff were students and just her daughter is on the payrole now or they would have had to shut down till spring. Number One Market closed down this winter! Don't know any details other than financial disparety. Eagles Nest pub looks so neglected there's probably going to be good mushroom picking on the side of the building this fall. Had a chat with logger Todd, don't know his last name but have seen him for ever. Same story from him. He's been doing construction for the last five or so years but had to go back logging. luckily for him he had past experience but many of his friends arent so lucky. Todd said he knew of five house repossessions! Joe Holmes that drove truck is going away for a year to work on a factory trawler. There is now work at home. Yup that's coastal comunity in recession!!!
Anyone wondering how the sportfishing industry is holding out in the present economic dip?? Well from my extensive inside experience I can fill you who don't know in. IT'S HURTIN!!! Every time a regular guest calls and books a couple more days I want to drive to wherever they are calling from and give them a big hug! I am so gratefull to have a strong following of guests to keep me afloat from year to year. Not all charter bussinesses are so lucky. Over the last few years many lodges have closed down or shortened thier seasons, down sized to addapt to the decrease in demand. It is reality that the whole sportfishing industry in general is presently operating at rock bottom profit margines just like me and my local commrads. Nobody is getting rich. Hardly any of us are even staying ahead. We are all just trying to live out our fishing dreams and survive financialy in a f@#$%d up world. Any other guide please correct me if I am wrong but thats what the average sportfishing guide is all about. The sport fishing industry is an occupation of passion and not financial profit. Lodge owners don't make diddly they just believe offering such services is honest and fun. The fact that sportfishing gives the most localy economic valu per pound vs resource impact gives all of us hope that common sense will eventualy triumph politicaly and the dream can continue for us and many others in the future.
To get back on track with the thread topic. I am totaly in favor with however it may have to happen to lengthen my fish retention season. Anything that will attract people to this area comtribute to my charter service and surrounding bussinesses is desperately needed. The recession has shortened the the tourist season down to six good weeks for two years now. After Laybour day Ukee's done. All the sportfishing bussinesses coast wide have high annual overhead. Profit is only made in the last few weeks of the season. Shortening a season that is now almost criticaly too short already would possibly sink me and most of the soul surviving businesses coast wide. If compramise at this moment will save my services than that is what I will do. From who I have consulted all other guides agree so far. Kathleen from the delli agrees. I know every accomodation owner/operator in Ukee will agree. I can't imagine a marina or marine campgroung owner that wouldn't agree........and so on...
Just wanted those who feel the local guides are acting for thier personal gain to know where we are comming from with stretching out the harvest. We have more to loose than just a few weeks of halibut fishing. If we all lost the last month of our seasons due to fishing closures most of us wouldn't be around to stand in armes fighting for more quota any more. If that's called calving or giving in to dfo than we need not mention what I would do for some increased quota and limmits!
 
Some more input:
Just got back from Ukee doing some pre season boat prep. Never have I seen the regular aquaintances so happy to see me! I have always been of the first seasonal guides to arrive to set up shop for the summer. Apparently this last winter has been really dismal. Kathleen from the delli said this was the quietest winter in more than 15 years. Luckily all of her regular staff were students and just her daughter is on the payrole now or they would have had to shut down till spring. Number One Market closed down this winter! Don't know any details other than financial disparety. Eagles Nest pub looks so neglected there's probably going to be good mushroom picking on the side of the building this fall. Had a chat with logger Todd, don't know his last name but have seen him for ever. Same story from him. He's been doing construction for the last five or so years but had to go back logging. luckily for him he had past experience but many of his friends arent so lucky. Todd said he knew of five house repossessions! Joe Holmes that drove truck is going away for a year to work on a factory trawler. There is now work at home. Yup that's coastal comunity in recession!!!
Anyone wondering how the sportfishing industry is holding out in the present economic dip?? Well from my extensive inside experience I can fill you who don't know in. IT'S HURTIN!!! Every time a regular guest calls and books a couple more days I want to drive to wherever they are calling from and give them a big hug! I am so gratefull to have a strong following of guests to keep me afloat from year to year. Not all charter bussinesses are so lucky. Over the last few years many lodges have closed down or shortened thier seasons, down sized to addapt to the decrease in demand. It is reality that the whole sportfishing industry in general is presently operating at rock bottom profit margines just like me and my local commrads. Nobody is getting rich. Hardly any of us are even staying ahead. We are all just trying to live out our fishing dreams and survive financialy in a f@#$%d up world. Any other guide please correct me if I am wrong but thats what the average sportfishing guide is all about. The sport fishing industry is an occupation of passion and not financial profit. Lodge owners don't make diddly they just believe offering such services is honest and fun. The fact that sportfishing gives the most localy economic valu per pound vs resource impact gives all of us hope that common sense will eventualy triumph politicaly and the dream can continue for us and many others in the future.
To get back on track with the thread topic. I am totaly in favor with however it may have to happen to lengthen my fish retention season. Anything that will attract people to this area comtribute to my charter service and surrounding bussinesses is desperately needed. The recession has shortened the the tourist season down to six good weeks for two years now. After Laybour day Ukee's done. All the sportfishing bussinesses coast wide have high annual overhead. Profit is only made in the last few weeks of the season. Shortening a season that is now almost criticaly too short already would possibly sink me and most of the soul surviving businesses coast wide. If compramise at this moment will save my services than that is what I will do. From who I have consulted all other guides agree so far. Kathleen from the delli agrees. I know every accomodation owner/operator in Ukee will agree. I can't imagine a marina or marine campgroung owner that wouldn't agree........and so on...
Just wanted those who feel the local guides are acting for thier personal gain to know where we are comming from with stretching out the harvest. We have more to loose than just a few weeks of halibut fishing. If we all lost the last month of our seasons due to fishing closures most of us wouldn't be around to stand in armes fighting for more quota any more. If that's called calving or giving in to dfo than we need not mention what I would do for some increased quota and limmits!

Nice post.. :)
 
Bang on, Kenny ..... Aka Fishmyster

Like yourself I have had a long career in the guiding game - since 1987 and the last 2 years have been tough.

The only reason I stay in it is I'm not good at much else. The Halibut in Sept used to be my savior for some profit after Paying down the huge overhead that we all incur.

Anybody who thinks guides are getting rich are fools.

My 2 pesos worth / end rant
 
Ken is 100 percent correct. That is the reality. Hopefully we can find a way to work together for everyones mutual benefit Best if we try to avoid falling for the bait the commercial guys are heaving out there to encourage a split in the rec community.
 
I know it's open and this is hindsight. This is what I understand by listening and reading what is going on with the guides mostly (which effects everyone). The March 1st opening was to appeal to the Victoria folks is my understanding because they can get out there that much earlier. Most lingcod and rockfish openings are not until Apr. 1st. Why not have the halibut open a month later when all the bottom fish are available and open? If it was open just one month later would this not help to extend the season? I know alot of the TAC will not be used up in the early months but would it make the difference?

In no way am I pointing any fingers. I am just putting this out there for discussion.

Cheers,
John
 
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You have pretty much summed it up Ken. Shortening the season will be the end of some businesses for sure, and not just Charter operators but local coffee shops, tackle shops, marinas, airlines, hotels, etc.
All I have to add is that all of the people that are worried about the way THEIR fishery is going. Are you at the meetings? Are you writing letters, sending emails, makeing phone calls? Do you donate to your local enhancement groups, volunteer time? For those that do, Thank You, and for those that don't, quit bitching about the people that work hard at it and take what you get.
 
I know it's open and this is hindsight. This is what I understand by listening and reading what is going on with the guides mostly (which effects everyone). The March 1st opening was to appeal to the Victoria folks is my understanding because they can get out there that much earlier. Most lingcod and rockfish openings are not until Apr. 1st. Why not have the halibut open a month later when all the bottom fish are available and open? If it was open just one month later would this not help to extend the season? I know alot of the TAC will not be used up in the early months but would it make the difference?



In no way am I pointing any fingers. I am just putting this out there for discussion.

Cheers,
John

Staggered openings I was wondering about this too, for instance if its mar 1 to aug 1 in victoria the same length could be may 1 to oct 1 up the coast. This gives the same length of opening and lets people get out in better weather. Just and idea guys.
 
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