Halibut! What do you want?

Not when the government does it and they all do it.
If caught you get trade wars and tariffs and WTO rulings.
Problem is it's not black and white there is lot's of gray areas.
Sometimes you even win in court and still lose in the real world.
Look at the softwood problem a few years ago.
 
check jimmies freezers for the answers of price fluctuation....

i want to catch big halibut, that is sport fishing
i want a definitive season
i want the fish returned to the citizens of canada
 
I chose this thread to respond to what I have been noticing in all the threads on Halibut. It is not directed at any one person but to all who care about what is happening.

WOW! It has only taken one year to go from flat out saying "no way to having to buy quota", to more and more of you suggesting ways of making money so we can buy quota.

I will tell you with no hesitation this kind of thing really scares me and quite frankly pisses me off . I have read and reread all the threads on this. The more I read the more some of you ( NOT ALL) are sounding like nothing more than a group of people who make money from killing fish hell bent on getting more of the pie. Suggestions like killing only smaller fish so it takes longer to reach our TAC only suggests that you are willing to kill way more individual fish in order to have more time to sell more trips. As long you remain focused only on getting full seasons and maybe traditional limits back as well, we are destined to be doomed.

The guides and lodges have been stead fast in saying that "they are not a commercial sector. They are sports fisherman who facilitate the opportunity for other sport fisherman to get out and do what they love." I support that fully and that has not changed. What has changed is some of the focus by some of you and that change is not making you look very good. It scares me to think that maybe all this really is about to some of you is getting to be able to make more money.

Look folks I know that this will not be popular with some of you, and that is ok. I have been skirting around this for some time now out of respect for the fact that this does actually affect your livelihoods. I cannot in good faith and with that same respect sit and quietly ignore this anymore. I have hired two guides in my life. Both times I met tremendous people who sold me way more than the opportunity to catch a couple fish. I left each time with more knowledge and passion, the feeling that I had one more friend on the water and a greater respect for what it takes to do what you folks do.

It is with that respect in mind that I will appeal to you once more as another person on this forum did today. Quit looking for band-aid fixes that at the end of it all only equates to killing more fish. Re direct your focus back on getting changed that witch needs to be changed. DFO has given private ownership of the bulk of a Canadian public resource to a select few individuals. They have done this ahead of the needs of the majority of Canadians. The majority of this now privately owned resource is being exported, again ahead of the needs of Canadians. In affect DFO has ensured that millions of pounds of fish will get killed each year to benefit very few people. This policy puts yours and many others in BC,s coastal communities very livelihoods in jeopardy. And it puts the rest of us Canadians most fundamental right to access these fish at risk. We MUST find a way to put an end to ITQ fisheries before they find themselves imbedded in and steeling all other species. Once the fish are returned to the people, getting a proper and fairer allocation of those fish will come much easier and at far less a cost to the resource than anything we can patch together short term.

It is from my passion for the sport, and years of quietly watching the big money machine turn the screws and shorten the list of who benefits from the resource that I comment on these issues. It is my hope that my comments are taken as they are intended. They are observations from someone outside of the business end of things and meant to be constructive not judgmental.

Cheers: Ray
 
Finally someone said something that is 100% on point and is not the status quo or going to be popular. And for once it wasnt me. The less sheep the better!
.
Well done ray and i agree 100%.

Lorne
 
The guides and lodges have been stead fast in saying that "they are not a commercial sector. They are sports fisherman who facilitate the opportunity for other sport fisherman to get out and do what they love." I support that fully and that has not changed. What has changed is some of the focus by some of you and that change is not making you look very good. It scares me to think that maybe all this really is about to some of you is getting to be able to make more money.

Cheers: Ray

The guides and lodges can say there not a commercial sector all they want.Its a play on words.They are a bussiness thats making money off fishing.Thats how i feel about it.Sportsfishing is for fun/sport.as soon as you pay someone to go enjoy that sport/fun it becomes a business.That being said its hard not to see a guide/lodges arguments as a fight for more money
 
At no point did i say anything about them paying anything.I said that I think they hide behind the mom and pop moniker of sportsfisherman when they are a commercial enterprise.
 
And holmes, i didnt get to see the canucks/wings game last night.did they win?I also missed the hawks/stars game.How did that one end up?
hahahaahaha
 
I would like to see:
-recreational fishery to remain closed until the above has been accomplished.

It would do nothing to shut the recreational fishery in order to accomplish the items listed on your list. If you want to see the things on your list accomplished in short order due to closures,,, close the whole damned fishery commercial and FN included. Then you will see some action and in a hurry,,, if the commercial cash cow dries up for a season or two, you can be sure to bet that those that have had the pull to get the commercial sector what they have wanted over the years, would start to speak up again and get the decision makers to start to do something to resolve the issues at hand.

As it stands now they (DFO and the Commercial Ground Fishery) don't really give a crap about the situation, because they already have what they want, and consider the recreational sector to be a pimple on an elephants butt. But if they also have to suffer because of the issues at hand, then I believe that you would see action quickly, because both of the two biggest decision makers involved would actually stand to lose something.

The rest of your remarks are reasonable for sure.

Cheers,
FH
 
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I would like to see a Halibut tag like the chinook tags we currently use. (with the same format, an annual cap on the number of fish to be taken by each angler and written record on the tag to record date location and perhaps even the size estimate of the fish).

The tag system would:
-give us an indication of the real numbers of anglers targetting Halibut.
-give us accurate numbers of fish caught during the season.
-give us the info on where the biomass is being affected the most due to the annual catch.
-would eliminate the need for flyover estimates.
-it could (with weight records), give us way more accurate data for how many pounds of fish were taken from the waters, the average size of fish caught for the year, average size for the areas fished that year.

With this information, the DFO would now have the necessary tools for making better decisions on allocating the TAC to the sectors that need it, and have the best social and economic benefit for our nation.

I would also like to see an online recording system that is mandatory and easy to use by everyone. We already have one in place on the DFO site, but very few people know about it, this has to change.
The online records would give DFO up to date information on the progression and condition of the current season fishery, so that decisions could be made from current and up to date data instead of last years information. It is too late to make proactive decisions after it is over. These decisions are important for staying within the TAC set by the IPHC at the begining of the season.

FH
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the lodges and guides who are part of the log book program do this.
Don't they (dfo) have the numbers they need?
 
yep i pretty much already said most of what you wrote fish hunter, but there's just one problem, they want to do some of that, but the way they want to do it is have us purchase quota and they will monitor, regulate and collect our data through the commercial sector because they are already set up for it...they dont want to have to set up a whole new system, that means work, and they are of the 10yr old kid mentality that has to actually do some chores, "Oh, I gotta do that?, arrg".....holmes*

I hear ya, but,,,,,, OVER MY DEAD BODY!!!!!
I WILL NEVERBUY HALIBUT QUOTA EVER!

If it comes to it that this is only way to ever catch a Halibut, then that will be last that I ever eat the fish. I would not purchase Halibut at the markets or restaurants either. I love Halibut, but,,, there is a line I will not cross, I will not buy something that is ours to begin with, where does it stop, will we eventually have to buy the air we breath from some greedy Capitalist????

I have said it before, and will continue to; it is time to shake the Etch-a-Sketch, and start all over!
FH
 
One more thing that I would like,,,

After we (the recreational anglers) have true accountability for our catch, I want us to have the 85% end of the stick for a while. The end of the stick that we are holding on to is a bit slimy and really dosen't smell very nice, I feel (as biased as my opinion is) that we have the chitty end of it here.
FH
 
agree FH, im TOTALLY with ya, if it comes to that i will just fish for them whenever i feel like or need one, i wont even recognize the dfo or any other enforcement entity or regulatory body, i barely do now, i agree on the etch-a- sketch as well...if they wont stop, then i will, i'll stop even aknowledging they exist,lol...holmes*

Yep should be a two way street for sure.

One can only push a man sooooo far before he no longer has any respect for the other and snaps, and does what he has to for himself. We have had some pretty good examples of governments or bodies of power around the globe in recent history that have pushed and taken too much from the people that they are supposed to be working for, and well the people have been fighting back. When enough is enough, it is indeed ENOUGH.
 
I chose this thread to respond to what I have been noticing in all the threads on Halibut. It is not directed at any one person but to all who care about what is happening.

WOW! It has only taken one year to go from flat out saying "no way to having to buy quota", to more and more of you suggesting ways of making money so we can buy quota.

I will tell you with no hesitation this kind of thing really scares me and quite frankly pisses me off . I have read and reread all the threads on this. The more I read the more some of you ( NOT ALL) are sounding like nothing more than a group of people who make money from killing fish hell bent on getting more of the pie. Suggestions like killing only smaller fish so it takes longer to reach our TAC only suggests that you are willing to kill way more individual fish in order to have more time to sell more trips. As long you remain focused only on getting full seasons and maybe traditional limits back as well, we are destined to be doomed.

The guides and lodges have been stead fast in saying that "they are not a commercial sector. They are sports fisherman who facilitate the opportunity for other sport fisherman to get out and do what they love." I support that fully and that has not changed. What has changed is some of the focus by some of you and that change is not making you look very good. It scares me to think that maybe all this really is about to some of you is getting to be able to make more money.

Look folks I know that this will not be popular with some of you, and that is ok. I have been skirting around this for some time now out of respect for the fact that this does actually affect your livelihoods. I cannot in good faith and with that same respect sit and quietly ignore this anymore. I have hired two guides in my life. Both times I met tremendous people who sold me way more than the opportunity to catch a couple fish. I left each time with more knowledge and passion, the feeling that I had one more friend on the water and a greater respect for what it takes to do what you folks do.

It is with that respect in mind that I will appeal to you once more as another person on this forum did today. Quit looking for band-aid fixes that at the end of it all only equates to killing more fish. Re direct your focus back on getting changed that witch needs to be changed. DFO has given private ownership of the bulk of a Canadian public resource to a select few individuals. They have done this ahead of the needs of the majority of Canadians. The majority of this now privately owned resource is being exported, again ahead of the needs of Canadians. In affect DFO has ensured that millions of pounds of fish will get killed each year to benefit very few people. This policy puts yours and many others in BC,s coastal communities very livelihoods in jeopardy. And it puts the rest of us Canadians most fundamental right to access these fish at risk. We MUST find a way to put an end to ITQ fisheries before they find themselves imbedded in and steeling all other species. Once the fish are returned to the people, getting a proper and fairer allocation of those fish will come much easier and at far less a cost to the resource than anything we can patch together short term.

It is from my passion for the sport, and years of quietly watching the big money machine turn the screws and shorten the list of who benefits from the resource that I comment on these issues. It is my hope that my comments are taken as they are intended. They are observations from someone outside of the business end of things and meant to be constructive not judgmental.

Cheers: Ray

Ray,

I agree with most of your post. What you are really pointing to is a longer term solution, which I think we can all agree would be in all our best interest.

That said, we need to face the reality of what can be accomplished in the short time between now and when our Halibut season will end THIS SEASON. The facts are we will not be able to change the quota - that is set in stone. No amount of pounding our chests will change that in time to make any difference to THIS SEASON. To ignore this fact is to in effect stuff our heads in the sand and wait for DFO to tell us when we run out our allocation and order and end to our season. The end date is in all our hands. If we focus on just the long term solutions, we throw away the opportunity to do something positive for all anglers this season.

We really need to have two approaches. One aimed at this season, and a second aimed at solutions for coming seasons.

This season we have a quota of just over 1 million pounds. That's how it is measured...pounds of landed fish. Not numbers of fish, pounds. Once our limit of pounds quota is reached the season will end - there will not be any exceptions as we have experienced in past years.

DFO has a model they follow to determine exactly when we reach that catch total. Think of it like a salary cap in the NHL. Once you exceed the cap you need to trade a player or in our case, stop fishing. The short term goal for all recreational fishers has to be to work together to find a way through utilizing existing fishing regulations to create an acceptable fishing experience for all anglers while slowing down the daily sport catch to a point where we can stretch out our finite allocation to get in a full season for all anglers. This isn't an us vs them; tin boat vs guide boat problem. We are all in this together. We all have control over the outcome.

If we work together we can find ways to create fishing opportunity and the reasonable expectation of catching a nice hali to keep everyone interested. So the trick is to work with DFO to use their sport catch model to spit out the best options that create a fishery that lasts through our usual season. We think that can be accomplished by getting the daily total pounds of fish caught down by having regulations such as a slot limit on the current 1 per day; 2 possession limit...or perhaps a 1 per day; 1 possession limit. This sort of approach would reduce the daily catch in pounds and allow us to stretch the days fished until we fish out our quota hopefully to the end of our season.

If we can do this sort of thing in the short term this season, we will be able to ensure there is fishing opportunity all season for all anglers. If we don't....the outcome is predictable when you look at the math behind the current quota and our daily catch rate coast wide.

Hopefully this helps explain the approach for THIS SEASON, and still leaves us to pursue other options for the future.
 
The guides and lodges can say there not a commercial sector all they want.Its a play on words.They are a bussiness thats making money off fishing.Thats how i feel about it.Sportsfishing is for fun/sport.as soon as you pay someone to go enjoy that sport/fun it becomes a business.That being said its hard not to see a guide/lodges arguments as a fight for more money

give your head a shake
 
At no point did i say anything about them paying anything.I said that I think they hide behind the mom and pop moniker of sportsfisherman when they are a commercial enterprise.

When was the last time you stepped up and did anything?? havent seen you at any meeting lately brother
 
The guides and lodges can say there not a commercial sector all they want.Its a play on words.They are a bussiness thats making money off fishing.Thats how i feel about it.Sportsfishing is for fun/sport.as soon as you pay someone to go enjoy that sport/fun it becomes a business.That being said its hard not to see a guide/lodges arguments as a fight for more money

It is not a play on words. Commercial sector sells fish to markets. Guides and Lodges sell an experience for..............here it is.........recreational anglers. Ones who bought a recreational fishing license and ones who have to follow the recreational fishing regulations. What about the businesses that sell boats, tackle, bait, fuel for those boats, food for those anglers, and lodging for all the recreational angleres that don't hire guides?. Are they not business's as well? Let's throw them all into the mix while your at it:confused:.

I am seeing alot of separation on here recently and it is not a good thing (that is what the other party wants). SFAB, BCWF, and your local fish and game club's are the ones fighting for us. Keep fishing alive for us recreational anglers with one voice.
 
It is not a play on words. Commercial sector sells fish to markets. Guides and Lodges sell an experience for..............here it is.........recreational anglers. Ones who bought a recreational fishing license and ones who have to follow the recreational fishing regulations. What about the businesses that sell boats, tackle, bait, fuel for those boats, food for those anglers, and lodging for all the recreational angleres that don't hire guides?. Are they not business's as well? Let's throw them all into the mix while your at it:confused:.

I am seeing alot of separation on here recently and it is not a good thing (that is what the other party wants). SFAB, BCWF, and your local fish and game club's are the ones fighting for us. Keep fishing alive for us recreational anglers with one voice.

I would say selling the experience ended a long time ago and was replaced wiht fill my freezer or I will find a different guide. IMO The push for more fish is the lodge and charter sector who are already taking 60-70% of the allocation and need more fish to try and off set the cost of the charter or nobody will show up. As a local I have no problem with the reduced limits as I can still get all the fish I need for the table. Yes it takes more than one trip but that is the "experience" i am looking for.
 
I would say selling the experience ended a long time ago and was replaced wiht fill my freezer or I will find a different guide. IMO The push for more fish is the lodge and charter sector who are already taking 60-70% of the allocation and need more fish to try and off set the cost of the charter or nobody will show up. As a local I have no problem with the reduced limits as I can still get all the fish I need for the table. Yes it takes more than one trip but that is the "experience" i am looking for.


And here we go again fish4all ..... why you go down this road and waste people time?? beats me
 
Aparently none of you guy's play chess, except fish4all.
(and a few others that have posted)
GLG
 
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