Halibut issue

[Fishing Guide]

Cheers All,

Hypothetically speaking...I would be all in favour of a 'Commercial Sports Fishing License' for lodges and charter vessels - much like what is occuring in Alaska.

This would require the government to re-visit the original 88/12 "theft" errr...allocation. This scenario - as requested by the commercial fleet - would require the govenment taking back ALL halibut licenses WITHOUT compensation of any form to the current commercial halibut license holders. The total 100% TAC would then be distributed as follows:

25% to the sports community;
25% to the newly created "commercial sports fleet";
25% to First Nations;
25% to commercial fishermen.

This would provide the certainty to the sports fishery - including a 2/4 possession and a 20 fish annual limit.

This would provide the certainty to the First Nations fishery.

The commercial halibut fishermen would not own this fishery (or license) but would lease it from the government with all proceeds directed towards the sustainability of halibut/fishing on the West Coast. Slipper Skippers would be expressly forbidden and 50% of the catch would be directed towards a Canadian Market. The lease price would be set at 50% of the wholesale price of halibut so that the commercial operator could make some money rather than enrich his Slipper Skipper cousin.

The newly created "Commercial Sports" designation for lodges and guides would be allocated to specific lodges and guides. They would 'lease' their quota the same as the commercial with all proceeds directed towards the halibut/fishing on the West Coast. This quota would pro-rated depending on amount required and would be transferable with the company (which would make guiding company/license now a valuable commodity). Individual guides fishing limited companies without lodges would not be required to own commercial licenses but could participate if they wished to fall under this catagory.

Yup...the more I think about the commercial halibut fishermens idea of a "Commercial Sports" designation the more I see its merrit - but ONLY under the suggested guidelines. Under NO CONDITION would I ever support paying the commercials for their quota - it was given freely and would be redistributed under the same rules and then leased to the benefit of the entire fishery.

 

[wolf]

Finally someone who has a GREAT(fishing guide) idea ill never pay for quota especially when it was gifted in the first place and anyone who thinks its ok to pay for a canadain common resource is sorry to say a complete F---en idiot....

Besides as a person who enables SPORT FISHERMAN to go fish I am by no means a commercail fisherman two totally diferent user groups I fish with 3 or 4 lines for 5 to 8 hours in a day only during certain times commies fish with 3000 to 5000 lines 12 to 24 hours anytime ill just throw it out there but to me thats a big ,nope a HUGE difference. hypothetically speaking!!!!!!

Wolf

 

[double trouble]

Well Wolf I guess I go under the "idiot" category then. I'll ignore the f'n part.

I think it is important that we stay a little realistic on this issue. There is a snowballs chance in (you know where) that the gov't will go back to ground zero and retrieve all the licences without some kind of compensation. That would be political suicide. There are many licences that have changed hands in the commercial fishery and people have paid real money for them. Is it their fault the government made a mistake back in 2003? They are running a business like just like the lodges and guides are and all the rest of those that serve the public anglers.

Changes have to be made in regards to the allocation but they should be without harm to any inividual that has played by the current rules, including the public that is getting the brunt of it now.

 

[profisher]

I've thought there should be a separate category for guides/lodges for years, at least 20 and I'm not alone in believing this. This would include some form of official documentation; ie license. That alone would make ones investment in boats, equipment, the years of service and the good will worth something the day you decide to retire from the business. As the number of guides/lodges in specific areas reach a saturation point DFO could then cap the number allowed in an area to protect both the fish and businesses. New comers would have to buy out an existing operator to work that capped area, just as with the commercial license. I could see a few areas that are terminal fisheries being the first ones to become capped. As an example the inside waters of Nootka Sound. It is possible at some point those local wild fish stocks (Chinook/Coho) would suffer from uncontrolled growth in numbers of lodges/guides hammering the fish on a daily basis. Once DFO began to see an impact occurring they would have a means already in place to deal with it and prevent further harm.
Roy..lay off on the personal attacks to those who don't think exactly as you do. I'm not a f&cking idiot, TY. You have your opinion and many others have their own. This topic has only progressed to this point in the discussion because someone brought it up in the first place. I think this is still a discussion board. This topic has come to a point where "Hypothetically" speaking you could now agree with it...does that mean you are also now thinking like a f%cking idiot too?

 

[wolf]

Ill stand by what I say I am getting very frustrated and angry with this whole process.
If you dont like it well thats just too bad.
DT pm sent

Wolf

 

[profisher]

We are all frustrated and your entitled to your opinion. Just remember labeling others means you lock yourself into your personal beliefs forever. Changing your mind later would mean joining those who you claim have lesser intelligence

 

[wolf]

Whatever man....

 

[chris73]

If such a "commercial sport" sector was introduced and outfitted with a certain quota then individual licences should be issued for a PERSON not a BUSINESS as this transferable quota setup has created the slipper skipper mess in the first place. You apply for a licences, it will be handed to you for the time you use it. If you retire - it goes back into the pool. Your business folds it goes back to DFO and becomes available for someone new. No money exchange - no creation of a paid for commodity. It should be a free share of a free Canadian resource.

But I am still convinced we all are sport fishermen and in this together.

 

[fish4all]

Besides as a person who enables SPORT FISHERMAN to go fish I am by no means a commercail fisherman two totally diferent user groups I fish with 3 or 4 lines for 5 to 8 hours in a day only during certain times commies fish with 3000 to 5000 lines 12 to 24 hours anytime ill just throw it out there but to me thats a big ,nope a HUGE difference. hypothetically speaking!!!!!!

Wolf

Your not even close on the numbers you use here but not that important. One part you negelcted is that you have the ability to fish 260 days of the year, and the commercial operator may be on the water for maybe 2-3 weeks at best.

 

[fish4all]

Well Wolf I guess I go under the "idiot" category then. I'll ignore the f'n part.

I think it is important that we stay a little realistic on this issue. There is a snowballs chance in (you know where) that the gov't will go back to ground zero and retrieve all the licences without some kind of compensation. That would be political suicide. There are many licences that have changed hands in the commercial fishery and people have paid real money for them. Is it their fault the government made a mistake back in 2003? They are running a business like just like the lodges and guides are and all the rest of those that serve the public anglers.

Changes have to be made in regards to the allocation but they should be without harm to any inividual that has played by the current rules, including the public that is getting the brunt of it now.

One of the best posts i've read in a long time. The sectors need to be able to work together during times of low abundance. We need a solution that works for all.

 

[chris73]

Your not even close on the numbers you use here but not that important. One part you negelcted is that you have the ability to fish 260 days of the year, and the commercial operator may be on the water for maybe 2-3 weeks at best.

Not even close with those numbers fish4all. If you have 20 days a year with suitable weather AND tides for hali sportfishing it was a great year.

 

[Fishing Guide]

Cheers All,

It is a fact of life that conditions change and, as such, we need to be flexible too. Simply put: because a person "paid" for something does not vest value in such forever. I paid for a new truck 3 years ago and it's value today is 1/2 of what I paid while my house has doubled in value in the past 15 years. I have a cassette deck out of a previous truck that had significant value/cost but, due to changes in technology, has now been replaced with a cd/dvd player and rendered the original valueless. Things change.

I hear the arguement being made time and time again that commercial fishermen 'paid' for some of these licenses along with capital costs of boats and equipment. I don't see anywhere where the conditions of those licenses cannot be changed. In fact the opposite is true and the Minister of Fisheries has the absolute power to change any and all. The government did not sell these liceneses but gave them to the original holders for various reasons - including some fairly extensive political lobbying. The value in them only came about due to the holders turning from using them for personal use and selling/leasing them. The value came about due to the actions of the holders and not the Ministry. To now claim one would want "compensation" goes so far beyond the bounds of reasonable as to move into the realm of greed.

Wolf has a great point - this is getting old and tiring ---> FAST! I have the utmost respect for fellow Captains and commercial fishermen who work damn hard for their living. However, the intransigence that I have seen over the past many, many years as those with the most have fought the hardest to keep this ill-conceived system in place has prompted me to speak out that change is not only due but necessary. Had there been any resolve in the commercial sector to address this it could, and would, have been done ages ago with little fuss or pain. In fact - 1.8% per license holder. By digging in their collective heels, in the hopes the sport sector would go away, has backfired. The situation is akin to what occured in Germany with the Berlin Wall, the former Soviet Rupublic as well as what is currently happening in Egypt. The masses realized the tyranny of the government and the flaws in the system and what was once a small comment became a voculized mass with power to change. The collective voices of the sport sector are now beginning to be heard and I think I hear the nervous breath of 435 commercial fishermen and 217 DFO.

While I do firmly believe that we should take back the entire allocation and start again...some quick and decisive moves by both the commercial sector and DFO to address these wrongs in a concerted effort would go a long way in calming my calls for upheaval on the oceans, in the streets and ultimately - in Vancouver AND Ottawa.

 

[wolf]

2 to 3 weeks are you kidding me can, they go when they want (when it opens) please tell me what figures are wrong cause I could use a good laugh you underestimate what I know about commercial fishing...

 

[hali hunter]

What we are asking for is probably about what they leave in the water each year.

 

[double trouble]

Fish4all, Are you saying the 135 boats that fish 88% of the Canadian TAC can catch them in 2 to 3 weeks? I realize of course they spread it out over the season but I had no idea they were that efficient. How many times would a boat unload during the 2 to 3 weeks?

 

[fish4all]

Not even close with those numbers fish4all. If you have 20 days a year with suitable weather AND tides for hali sportfishing it was a great year.

If your only talking about Victoria possibly. If you go on the westcoast or up north you can fish far more than 20days for halibut. but then again why would you need to fish for more than 10 days a year to fill the freezer anyway?

 

[fish4all]

Fish4all, Are you saying the 135 boats that fish 88% of the Canadian TAC can catch them in 2 to 3 weeks? I realize of course they spread it out over the season but I had no idea they were that efficient. How many times would a boat unload during the 2 to 3 weeks?

The entire season used to last ony 8 days when it was a free for all fishery. The main reasons dfo moved away from it is accountability and safety. Most boats fish short trips of 3-6days.

 

[fish4all]

What we are asking for is probably about what they leave in the water each year.

they left 34,000 in the water this year. SFAB asked for an additonal 900,000lbs.

 

[fish4all]

Yep conversations is getting old. I think its greedy,and statement of 2-3 weeks c'mon. Paid for what? Again i always ask who measures the sport fishing take? How accurate are the numbers.

Sorry but I think us asking for a little room on the quota is not too much to ask. I am tired of hearing how much it will take away from commercial industry. It is Canadian citizens resource give it back!! I am surprised we don't sell of the deer/moose next LOLOL.

Smiley66

I'll be more surprised if itdoesnt end up exactly like deer or moose. Too many participants = lottery system and tags.

 

[fish4all]

Besides as a person who enables SPORT FISHERMAN to go fish I am by no means a commercail fisherman two totally diferent user groups I fish with 3 or 4 lines for 5 to 8 hours in a day only during certain times commies fish with 3000 to 5000 lines 12 to 24 hours anytime ill just throw it out there but to me thats a big ,nope a HUGE difference. hypothetically speaking!!!!!!

Wolf

commies use 3-5 lines at most per day. each line may have up to 500 hooks on it. So that would be 1500-2500 hooks hauled. Last year if i look i belive the average number of commies on the water in one day is around 15. So you are looking at 37,500 hooks hauled/day. How many sports boats are on the water in one day? How many times do you haul and set your hooks?