halibut experimental fishery Q&A

[juandesooka]

Q&A for Recreational Halibut Experimental Fishery, on DFO site:
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/statement-declarations/2011/20110115c-eng.htm

First I've seen it, apologies if already posted before and I missed it.

Not all that informative, doesn't answer all the questions forhow they intend to do this, but gives a little more info that the press release.

 

[Deewar25]

"Fisheries and Oceans Canada annually publishes a list of 435 commercial halibut licence holders"

where?? I googled the heck out of this and couldn't find it...I suppose Charlie may have an answer, I'd like to see the list myself!

 

[double trouble]

I have seen the list of quota owners on DFO's website. The funny thing is we asked if DFO could tell us who actually owned how much and their answer was they don't think their list is up to date. They aren't exactly sure of who owns what and how the leasing by poundage is actually being audited.

 

[GLG]

"Fisheries and Oceans Canada annually publishes a list of 435 commercial halibut licence holders"

where?? I googled the heck out of this and couldn't find it...I suppose Charlie may have an answer, I'd like to see the list myself!

from a post I made a day or two ago
GLG

You have to have a license to own quota. It seem you also need a boat to own a license. Check out this link to sort all the halibut licenses. Just use the drop down box to select the halibut fishery, and then press the display fishery report button. Once the report is shown you can press the “next 176” button to see the next page. You can copy and paste company names in to your favorite search engine to get some background on some of the companies. Those with excel can also download a text (csv) file if you want to sort out the data. Check out the company with the 11-foot halibut boat. You will be surprised how much it pays to have such a small fuel-efficient fish slaying machine. I do worry that such a small boat may be dangerous for commercial fish. Ok no I don’t.

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Op...portSelect.cfm

 

[Deewar25]

got it - thx...I see Canfisco owns all the big hogs

 

[Deewar25]

I have seen the list of quota owners on DFO's website. The funny thing is we asked if DFO could tell us who actually owned how much and their answer was they don't think their list is up to date. They aren't exactly sure of who owns what and how the leasing by poundage is actually being audited.

yep - under vessel report is this:

Licences listed may be owned by this vessel, or temporarily transferred from another vessel, or designated to this vessel by a party who holds the eligibility for the licence.

They don't have a clue!

 

[Little Hawk]

Any suggestion that rec-fishers should buy quota for fish we 'already own' is preposterous!

NO ONE BUT NO ONE SHOULD BUY INTO THIS TWISTED AND UNLAWFUL SCHEME! IF YOU DO - YOU'RE A SCAB AND OUR FISHERY AS WE KNOW IT WILL BE DONE!

 

[wolf]

NEVER lease quota total crap!!!! and do you really think a commie is going to give anyone some anyways ...ohhh yeah he will in oct when the price falls out and he will be asking 2x the value and you know what someone will buy it too we are in a sad shape of things!!!!!

 

[Clipper]

This is the most ridiculous scheme I have ever heard of and I find it almost surreal that it was even proposed. WTF are these people at DFO smoking?

 

[IronNoggin]

Thanks GLG, I had seen your previous post and already sifted through the data their Licence list contains. Appreciated.

For you, Charlie or anyone else that might have an idea of where to look: DFO has consistently stated that are unaware of exactly who owns the halibut quotas, and how much thereof. If anyone can point me towards determining that information I would be downright Grateful!!

Hoping...
Nog

 

[Osama Bin Hopper]

Weight of puchased quota

My understaning is that any of this purchased quota is SO HEAVY it will literally sink your boat.

Like even 100lbs of purchased quota could result in a non buoyant vessel~!!!

Geez. I'm not in.

I can't take that kind of risk. I'll keep taking recreational anglers out to catch recreational fish.

Until they can PROVE we are catching MORE than the alloted ******** 12% I think we'll be safer than trying to haul around the other liability!

People are mad and a line has been drawn in the sand. I AINT crossing.

 

[Gunsmith]

Hmmm, maybe time to boycott Overwaitea and Save-on foods for a start.

 

[searun]

This whole thing is starting to sound more and more like a Johnny Cash song....Burning ring of fire...from all the BS coming down the chute from east of these parts. Like Osama says, No crossing the line boys.

 

[fish4all]

This whole thing is starting to sound more and more like a Johnny Cash song....Burning ring of fire...from all the BS coming down the chute from east of these parts. Like Osama says, No crossing the line boys.

sorry but the line has already been crossed.

 

[h-core]

sorry but the line has already been crossed.

Ya? By who? Please give us the details.

 

[h-core]

Come on D4all, please back up at east something you say. Otherwise it just comes off as yet another divisive seed being planted. TROLL

 

[fish4all]

Ya? By who? Please give us the details.

Fair enough. Believe it or not there are more guides on the coast then just those of you that live and work in the lower part of the province. A good majority of the guides working out of the North are ex-commercial fishermen, some even own quota. So while the group in the south has been stomping their feet there are a few things happening in the background.

1) not all commercial fishers are a-holes(sorry holmes). there are some that are putting quota away at a reasonable price to be able to get it out to guides at a reasonable rate. Is this going to be an unllimited amount...probably not.

2) guides that understand how quotas work are building a business plan around it. Any guide with business sense knows roughly how many clients they are going to get this year. so lets just play out a simple scenario:

lets say a guide gets 60 days of bookings with 4 people per booking. 240 guests.
He increases his rates by say $30/head that is $7200.
$7200 / $4.75 = 1515 lbs of leased fish.

So if/when the regular season closes the guide carries on business with fish he has averaged out between his guests. So the guests at the end of the season are not taking a huge hit.

Again any guide worth his salt knows where the big fish are and where the small fish are. He can then target the smaller fish and therfore predict his season length or if a client wants a monster then perhaps he charges a bit of a royalty to that client.

At the end if there is remaining quota the guide/ lodge can lease it back to the commercial sector.

I believe at the Pitt Meadows meeting a lodge got up and said he gets 4500 clients. At a $20 increase per guest that is $90,000 that the lodge has to lease quota with. Thats almost 19000 lbs to spread around when the regular season closes.

And what is the outcome. The organizized lodge is going to be back in 2012,2013...... and those that are still stomping there feet may find themselves golfing or bird watching. And when the stocks do turn around who is going to be left standing?

 

[Charlie]

Recreational Halibut Experimental Fishery February 2011

​

Q1 What is the purpose of the experimental halibut fishery and what is being tested?
A1 The experimental halibut fishery will test a market-based mechanism that allows an experimental licence holder to acquire additional halibut quota from the commercial sector to fish for recreational purposes, and to test enhanced catch monitoring of such a fishery.

Q2 How will this experimental fishery work?
A2 Experimental licences are being made available for one year on a trial basis. In addition to the regular tidal water sport fishing licence, recreational harvesters can obtain an experimental licence, on a voluntary basis, that will allow the licence holder to lease halibut quota from commercial harvesters, thereby giving them certainty for business planning purposes.. The additional quota associated with the experimental licence will allow individual recreational harvesters to fish beyond the current limits of a standard recreational license (a daily limit of 1 and possession limit of 2), up to the amount of additional quota acquired on the experimental licence. The experimental licence will be subject to terms and conditions, which include enhanced monitoring requirements for participants. Through the implementation of this trial experimental fishery, Fisheries and Oceans Canada will work with stakeholders to set out the monitoring conditions.

Q3 How will recreational harvesters be able to access commercial quota? How will they be able to find commercial harvesters willing to sell quota?
A3 The Department will work with participants in the experimental program to direct them to the appropriate information. Fisheries and Oceans Canada annually publishes a list of 435 commercial halibut licence holders, including the person or company that holds the license and quota. In addition, quota brokers exist for groundfish fisheries that can assist recreational harvesters in accessing quota.

Q4 How much will it cost recreational harvesters to purchase additional quota? Will there be a limit on how much quota the recreational sector can purchase? When will it be available?
A4 Recreational harvesters will continue to have access to 12 per cent of the Canadian total allowable catch through the standard recreational fishery. There is no cost for the issuance of the experimental license. The experimental licence will provide a market-based transfer mechanism for acquiring additional quota, operated through a willing buyer and willing seller arrangement. Transactions will occur directly between the buyer and seller, and costs associated with the additional quota would be based on market value and be paid for by the recreational experimental licence holder. Fisheries and Oceans Canada is responsible for tracking the transfer of quota from one licence to another through its quota management system.

Q5 Is the Department concerned about commercial licence holders leasing out their quota without actually fishing?
A5 In 2006, the Department implemented the Commercial Groundfish Integration Program, which required that all commercial groundfish harvesters be accountable for their target and incidental catch. The ability to transfer quota makes individual commercial groundfish harvesters responsible for all of their catch by transferring target and non-target quotas amongst themselves. This market-based transfer allows the catch of commercial groundfish species to remain within the prescribed conservation limits while also providing for an economically viable fishery. As such, the ability to self-adjust within the fishery is critical to ensuring its long-term sustainability. Furthermore, the transferability of quota allows for new entrants to actively participate in the fishery without the initial high investment costs associated with the purchase of a commercial halibut licence and quota.

Q6 How will the experimental fishery affect the standard recreational fishery?
A6 The experimental fishery is voluntary and will exist in addition to the standard recreational fishery. The experimental fishery will not affect the standard recreational fishery: recreational anglers with a recreational tidal water licence will be permitted to catch 1 halibut per day, 2 in possession, beginning on March 1, 2011. The Department is responsible for ensuring that Canada stays within the domestic total allowable catch set by the International Pacific Halibut Commission, and fisheries will be monitored in-season to ensure they remain within their respective allocations.

Q7 When will the standard recreational fishery close for the 2011 season?
A7 The Department will continue to monitor catches of the recreational sector in-season. Based on previous seasons, we anticipate the season to last to October, however conservation remains a top priority and the Department is responsible for ensuring that all users stay within their allotted allocation. Any additional quota acquired through the new experimental fishery for 2011 will provide opportunities to extend the fishing season for the licence holder under the experimental fishery until they reach their newly acquired quota. It is our hope that Recreational Fishers, particularly tour operators, take advantage of this experimental license, so they can ensure their ability to have access to the fishery for as long into the season they need to for business planning purposes.

Q8 What will the Department do with the results of the experimental licence initiative?
A8 The Department will closely monitor and evaluate the effectiveness of various approaches being tested in this experimental fishery, including monitoring methods and transfer mechanisms—both of which will provide input into options for the long-term management of the fishery.

Q9 How do I apply for an experimental licence?
A9 An expression of interest will be made available on the Fisheries and Oceans Canada website in the coming weeks that will allow interested participants to express interest to participate in the experimental fishery. At the same time, the Department will provide further information on the objectives, scope and methodology for the experimental fishery.

Q10 How do I find out more about the experimental program?
A10 In addition to the expression of interest that will be posted on the website, Fisheries and Oceans Canada will be holding information sessions in local communities to provide additional details on the experimental recreational fishery. A list of dates and locations will be made available shortly.

Q11 Will First Nations be affected by the new experimental recreational fishery? Will they be consulted about the long-term management of the Pacific halibut fishery?
A11 First Nations representatives were included on the halibut allocation policy transfer mechanism committee that was established in April 2010 to discuss options for moving forward with the halibut fishery. The experimental recreational fishery will not affect First Nations access to fish for food, social and ceremonial purposes, which will continue to be considered before the Canadian total allowable catch (as determined by the International Pacific Halibut Commission) is distributed between commercial and recreational harvesters. Approximately 16 per cent of the commercial halibut total allowable catch allocation is designated to First Nations bands and tribal councils; this will also not be affected by the experimental recreational fishery. This allocation is made available to First Nations through the Allocation Transfer Program and the Pacific Integrated Commercial Fisheries Initiative, two programs that are in place to achieve environmentally sustainable and economically viable commercial fisheries where First Nations' aspirations are supported. First Nations will be able to apply for an experimental recreational licence under the same terms and conditions that apply to other recreational users. First Nations will have a prominent role to play in discussions about the future of the fishery, including allocations between commercial and recreational sectors. Information on the results from the experimental program will be shared with First Nations and all stakeholders to inform discussions on how best to move forward with the fishery.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/statement-declarations/2011/20110115c-eng.htm

 

[IronNoggin]

Believe it or not there are more guides on the coast then just those of you that live and work in the lower part of the province. A good majority of the guides working out of the North are ex-commercial fishermen, some even own quota. So while the group in the south has been stomping their feet there are a few things happening in the background.

1) not all commercial fishers are a-holes(sorry holmes). there are some that are putting quota away at a reasonable price to be able to get it out to guides at a reasonable rate. Is this going to be an unllimited amount...probably not.

2) guides that understand how quotas work are building a business plan around it.

Just where on the North Coast are you assuming this will occur? The group out of Rupert have publicly stated they will have nothing to do with this. As have largely the QCI bunch. The Coalition, and pretty well all the Guide Associations have come out directly apposed to any from the recreational sector leasing under this travesty.

So, while there may be the odd ex-commercial guide who owns quota (I find it more than difficult to believe that these are amongst a "good majority") that transfers that to his own operations, methinks that number will likely be very small in nature. And if they do, they will face alienation and wrath from their peers that have advised them not to. I'd hazard a guess that directed Public Awareness Campaigns right in their clients' faces may give them pause before getting too cozy with the idea.

No-one said all commercial fishermen are A-Holes. In fact I am one myself (salmon troll) and count a good number of those forced to lease halibut quota at exorbitant prices amongst my Friends. Putting "some" away for recreational access is a poor business idea when it can, and will be, sold for top dollar to other commercial applications. Nice spin with the "Limited Amount" - yet another tease to see if you can get anyone to buy in "before it's all gone". NOT going to happen but nice try.

Guides with any business sense very much understand the peril associated with bucking everyone else involved in the sector. Not much good for business when your Buddies look down at you with disdain for having sold them out.

And when the stocks do turn around who is going to be left standing?

Those that show Solidarity with their peers by refusing to buy back their own resources and who work diligently towards positive change will be in much better standing once the dust has settled. Change IS coming, there is simply no way around that at this point. Methinks any considering selling out our sector had better think long and hard on that - Is crawling into bed with The Dino and a handful of her wealthy friends worth the anguish certain to follow?

Cheers,
Nog

 

[Charlie]

This might answer a few questions?

“A service provider, under contract to the Canadian Groundfish Research and Conservation Society (CGRCS), will be designated for this program and will supply certified observers to provide the port monitoring services.” Who are they? “The mandate of the CGRCS is to support the conservation of Canada’s Pacific Groundfish resource. It is made up of vessel owners, operators, crewmembers, processors and others with a vested interest in the effective and sustainable management of the BC Groundfish trawl fishery.”
Tel: 604-524-0005
Fax: 604-524-0150

“Due to the complexity of transferable Individual Transferable Quota (ITQ) and the related licence amendment system, tracking of catch quantities under the ITQ system is primarily performed administratively under the dockside monitoring program.” Who has that contract:Archipelago Marine Research Ltd. (AMR) Contact AMR (1-800-663-7152) AMR actually puts all that information directly into DFO system via the internet. So, DFO gets that information! DFO knows exactly who owns the halibut quota, as they issue it to them! They know who is reporting the quota and under what licence quota it is assigned, as each ITO on each vessel is calculated. The only thing DFO might not know, is who currently leased what from who for the upcoming year. They certainly do know who is catching what and what licence it is applied to! Either that or DFO has one of the biggest scams known to mankind going!


Since 2003, the Department has focused on working with the commercial groundfish harvesters and others to address management and sustainability issues in the commercial groundfish fisheries. The Department identified five guiding principles for the commercial groundfish sector.

Following significant work through the Commercial Groundfish Industry Advisory Committee (CGIAC) and the Commercial Industry Caucus (CIC), a three year pilot was introduced in the commercial groundfish fisheries in 2006. The reforms focus on 100% at-sea monitoring and 100% dockside monitoring, individual vessel accountability for all catch, both retained and released, individual transferable quotas (ITQ) and reallocation of these quotas between vessels and fisheries to cover catch of non-directed species.


As of the 2010 fishing season the pilot program has now become permanent. A comprehensive evaluation of the pilot was conducted in 2009 and can be found at: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/commercial/ground-fond/index-eng.htm. Results of this evaluation show that the pilot is achieving the Department’s conservation objectives and satisfies social concerns and economic performance. Halibut and sablefish fleets have continued to fully harvest their directed total allowable catch and feature stronger profitability levels. There are fewer vessels in the smaller-scale fleets (rockfish, lingcod, dogfish), which is expected with implementation of ITQ fisheries, however, the landings per trip for the remaining vessels has increased. While there are continued concerns about high monitoring and quota leasing costs, availability of quota, and rationalization of the small boat fleet, permanent implementation of the Commercial Groundfish Integration Program (CGIP) will alleviate some of these concerns. While implementation of the CGIP has changed the way the fishery was managed, a substantial degree of stability has been observed over the four year pilot period.

Return to the fishery seen in the pre-integration period would not have met the Department’s conservation objectives. The CGIP likely provides the best program to achieve the conservation objectives and satisfy socio-economic performance. As such, the program was approved commencing the 2010/2011 fishing season.

IFMP documents are available from the DFO Pacific Region Internet site, from any Pacific Fishery Licence Unit (PFLU) or local DFO office.

The total export value was down to $35,199,147 in 2008 which is approximately 24% less than 2007 ($43,514,564) and approximately 124% less than in 2004 ($79,042,065). As shown in the graph below, halibut export volume and values have declined since 2004.

The 2005 British Columbia Ministry of Environment employment survey indicated that approximately 66 thousand person months of employment (5,740 full time equivalents ‘FTE’1) were generated by the seafood processing industry in 2005. Approximately 230 FTEs (4%) were attributed to processing halibut, as shown in the table below.

An estimate of the financial viability and performance of the 181 active halibut vessels for 2007 (shown in the table below) illustrates differences between vessels in the fleet. The fleet was divided into 3 tiers, top (60 vessels), middle (60 vessels) and bottom (61 vessels) based on recorded landings. The top tier accounted for approximately 59% of the total halibut landings, with the remaining 41% divided by the remaining 2 tiers. The 61 vessels in the bottom tier contributed to only 10% of the total landings. The result is that earnings are almost 13 times lower for the bottom tier than for the top tier.

http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/x...ans11/2011 Groundfish IFMP_Final_Complete.pdf

To recap some of that information… The commercial halibut fishery is in a steady decline since 2004. 2008 was 24% less than 2007 ($43,514,564) and approximately 124% less than in 2004. It is responsible for 230 full time processing employees (4% of groundfish) plus 181 vessels and crew. The top 60 vessels on average clear a “net” profit of a little less than $19,000 per vessel, while the bottom 61 clear a profit a little over $13,000. This is “boat,” after all expenses!

In 2007 there was 436 quota and halibut license holders. Figuring $1,500 (current cost) per license that is $654,000 collected in fees by DFO. According to the report there was $17,169,308.00 paid for license quota fees for/by those 181 halibut vessels. The current average cost per license for commercial halibut collected by DFO is $1,500. Using THEIR numbers, If each of the 181 vessels paid DFO for one license/guota fee that equates to $271,500.00. That kind of leaves approximately $16,897,808 (yes, million) per year paid by those 181 vessels unaccounted for - doesn’t it? That also leaves 255 quota holders (not fishing) also unaccounted for. You can divide those number however you wish, but that does leave an average of $66,265.91 per quota holder! Not bad for an average of $1,500?

BTW… If my spreadsheet is right, it appears that halibut quota of 435 (or 436 depending on which number you are looking at) is being divided proportionately by a total of 426 halibut license holders. At least that is what is shown on DFO’s website!

Personally, I believe the comment about a boycott has more merit than most realize and might be closer to a solution! Who do you think really runs British Columbia commercial fisheries? It sure isn’t Shea or anyone in DFO! They really can’t do anything, without approval from all those commercial entities that are in place! If the sport sector agrees to this “ leasing program,” game over – YOU LOSE, just start thinking Area 2C!

Plus, DFO really don’t care! If you wait for a decision from them, start reading, you might start thinking of a resolve in the year 2017. I will also take any of those bets! Now on the other hand, I am quite sure Jim Pattison would HATE any and all negative publicity over any of this issue! Might want to forget letters to DFO in favor of Jim Pattison? I guarantee he carries more weight than Shea!

I would be putting “Customer Satisfaction is our #1 priority!” to the test! J