Fraser River FN Letter Opposing Salmon Farms

The number of native bands signing the letter of opposition seems small for all the bands that live and fish along the Fraser and its tributaries. Doesn't send a very strong message if the majority of bands didn't sign the letter.
 
Subject: Fwd: [sehab-chat] Fraser River FN Letter Opposing Salmon Farms

http://www.huffstrategy.com/MediaMa...-Nations-Protecting-Wild-Salmon-No-/3117.html

I’m not surprised so few FN bands signed off on that letter as it is an outright misrepresentation of facts - the author/s should be embarrassed for showing their band members how mis informed they really are.. escaped Atlantic’s in Secwepemc territory? prespawned deaths, discoloured salmon, salmon with open sores, salmon too weak to swim upstream … really? This has been happening in BC’s interior since records have been kept, and it will happen again this summer, especially if water temperatures are above normal.
The caravan for wild salmon had great promise to inform and was supposed to a platform for (mainly FN) to discuss issues like mining, pipelines ,and hazardous waste facilities on traditional FN lands, but as expected it turned into a witch hunt against salmon farms.
 
I’m not surprised so few FN bands signed off on that letter as it is an outright misrepresentation of facts - the author/s should be embarrassed for showing their band members how mis informed they really are.. escaped Atlantic’s in Secwepemc territory? prespawned deaths, discoloured salmon, salmon with open sores, salmon too weak to swim upstream … really? This has been happening in BC’s interior since records have been kept, and it will happen again this summer, especially if water temperatures are above normal.
The caravan for wild salmon had great promise to inform and was supposed to a platform for (mainly FN) to discuss issues like mining, pipelines ,and hazardous waste facilities on traditional FN lands, but as expected it turned into a witch hunt against salmon farms.

Thanks Dave for your insight from the "Friends of Salmon Farms".... How every you have lost your social licence and you must now earn it back.
http://www.alexandramorton.ca/salmon-confidential-booklet/
 
More vague and misleading terminology used by the anti salmon farming crowd to that suggests a status quo or public opinion. Social Licence? What does that mean?

In this case it is only misleading and meaningless and is the opinion of one group which is not backed up by anything.

The very vagueness of the term social license means we cannot know what the rules are, when you’re in compliance or when you’ve still got work to do. And project opponents like that vagueness just fine because it gives them unilateral authority to claim that the need for social license has not been met.
 
More vague and misleading terminology used by the anti salmon farming crowd to that suggests a status quo or public opinion. Social Licence? What does that mean?

In this case it is only misleading and meaningless and is the opinion of one group which is not backed up by anything.

The very vagueness of the term social license means we cannot know what the rules are, when you’re in compliance or when you’ve still got work to do. And project opponents like that vagueness just fine because it gives them unilateral authority to claim that the need for social license has not been met.

Clearly with a post like that you have a long way to go to earn back your social license.
If it needs explaining to you then your industry is in worse shape then most of us think.

For starters what about the recommendations from the Cohen Commission?
 
For starters what about the recommendations from the Cohen Commission?
Cohen made two recommendations that have been carried out; there has been no expansion of salmon farms in the Discovery Island area, and, there is a huge multi agency disease testing program under way looking at wild and net pen salmon. http://www.genomebc.ca/index.php?cID=1235
On last night’s episode of “Game of Thrones”, a character (can’t remember who) said … Belief is so often the death of Reason. Imo, this fits the salmon farming issue here in BC and Washington, and especially so on forums like this.

The Belief, imo, is salmon are fewer so there must be a reason, and despite the evidence of warming water, commercial and FN over fishing, habitat destruction, ocean acidification, huge increases in the human population resulting in urban encroachment and more sewage and pharmaceuticals being filtered by our waterways, and because it sure as hell wasn’t me because I didn’t take over my limit last year … obviously a scapegoat was needed, and Alexandra Morton and her followers found salmon farms.

The Reason, imo, is that in the 40 or so years salmon farms have been operating here and in Washington, there are no documented cases of disease transfer from net pen salmon to wild and no documentation of wild salmon stocks being negatively impacted at the population level ;indeed, several sockeye and pink stocks have increased since farms started up. This disconnect between preconceived thoughts or beliefs, and common logic or reason, has been discussed many times, and far more eloquently, by Clayoquot Kid and others here on this forum.
 
Uhh, there been a lot of Cohen's recommendations that have been ignored.... What about that....?

Not to mention the numerous peer reviewed articles and scientific studies that indicate negative impacts of net pen salmon feedlots on wild fish and the environment by several on this forum in numerous previous posts.
 
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And not to also mention this one......

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...Case-Won-Against-Salmon-Farm-Industry-Abuses!
Yet more evidence of the net pen salmon feedlot industry harmful practices - this time they have been found out and hopefully stopped!!!


READ DECISION - Download T-789-13 - Judgment and Reasons copy.pdf (1038.2K)
On May 6, 2015 The Honourable Mr. Justice Rennie handed down the decision that DFO has been unlawfully allowing the salmon farming industry to transfer farmed salmon into marine net pens that are carrying diseases with the potential to 'severely impact' the wild fishery at an international level [72].
He ruled that DFO is abdicating its legal responsibility to protect and conserve wild fish by handing off decisions about transferring fish with diseases to the salmon farming industry [83].
Most BC farmed salmon are infected with piscine reovirus. Many scientists in Norway have published research showing that piscine reovirus causes the disease, HSMI, which is known to damage salmon hearts to the point that fish can barely move.

.............

Justice Rennie informs us that in his view, the science is convincing that PRV causes a disease that may be harmful to wild salmon and that it would be unreasonable not to expect that disease to follow the salmon farms industry into BC

...the weight of the expert evidence before this Court supports the view that PRV is the viral precursor to HSMI. [35]
...the evidence, suggests that the disease agent (PRV) may be harmful to the protection and conservation of fish, [45]
...it would be an unreasonable inference to draw from the evidence that it will not appear in farmed Atlantic salmon on the Pacific Coast. [57]
The evidence, suggests that the disease agent (PRV) may be harmful to the protection and conservation of fish, and therefore a “lack of full scientific certainty should not be used a reason for postponing measures to prevent environmental degradation” [45]


The clock is ticking and there are 97 days left out of the 4 months the judge gave them to clean up. How is that going?
 
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Thanks Dave for your insight from the "Friends of Salmon Farms".... How every you have lost your social licence and you must now earn it back.
http://www.alexandramorton.ca/salmon-confidential-booklet/

Interesting booklet. This was the best one....A photo of a fish with a deformity....which was obviously meant to connect fish farms to genetic deformities and scare the public. Very responsible and informative. Well, a picture says a thousand words so might as well use it to some advantage. These deformities never happen in provincial, federal hatcheries or the wild. Wait a minute...I caught a rainbow last year with a deformity like that - must be from fish farms. Good thing I released it and didn't eat it or I would have ended up with a similar deformity.

Strange how not all of Cohen's findings on ISA and ISAv are not in the booklet that proposes to be about the "ugly truth". Take out Volume 2, Chapters 4 and 5 and compare. Why was much of this information omitted?

Escaped Atlantics in Secwepemc territory? Do the undersigned chiefs have any documentation (i.e. numbers, dates, location) of these observations or is just anecdotal information? Of course introduction of Atlantics in freshwater was never tried in the past. Cohen talks about Atlantic escapees in Volume 2, Chapter 4.

Discoloured salmon with open sores? Well, of course that has to be related to salmon farms. What else could it be? Just like that salmon with the acid burn following the Mt. Polley breach. Sounds like the chiefs followed a standard template for their letter. Defending this is like defending the Canuck's recent playoff record and saying they are so close to bringing home the Cup.
 
Agreed, Shuswap. I find this kind of material very sad - there are quite a number of legitimate issues and concerns with the Aquaculture industry and the way it is regulated but the use of exaggerated or outright inaccurate facts and arguments just marginalizes all thoughtful concern and opposition as extremism.

I guess you can't disagree that this is a polarizing issue or that today's general public would rather consume sensationalized sound bites, rather than educate themselves fully on a topic - which always has two sides to the story. I'm sure marketers have been involved in advising how to sell the message. I know the saying goes that the end justifies the means but I'm not sure that any headway is being made - statistics show that there is market demand for significantly more farm raised fish and I know this is reflected at my local Costco, where the Atlantic salmon fillets seem to fly off the shelves.

Ukee
 
Interesting booklet. This was the best one....A photo of a fish with a deformity....which was obviously meant to connect fish farms to genetic deformities and scare the public. Very responsible and informative. Well, a picture says a thousand words so might as well use it to some advantage. These deformities never happen in provincial, federal hatcheries or the wild. Wait a minute...I caught a rainbow last year with a deformity like that - must be from fish farms. Good thing I released it and didn't eat it or I would have ended up with a similar deformity.

Genetic deformities? Do you have a source for that?
This is important because we have a lot riding on this.

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Genetic deformities? Do you have a source for that?
This is important because we have a lot riding on this.

Sorry GLG, I don’t have any source that shows that the fish in the picture (with no caption or source) is an example of a genetic deformity. I am all “linked out”…lol. All I have to go with is my 2 years working at a federal salmon hatchery as a student, my buddies that work for the Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC and my years of sport angling. Swear to God, I actually caught a fish with that kind of mouth at a BC interior lake. Not sure what else could have caused that. I may not have a source for that photo, but if you ask the author (Alexandra Morton?) of the booklet I believe they should be able to provide you a source and perhaps some idea of the relevance of the photo to the section. As far as I am concerned it’s painfully obvious why a picture of fish like that is on the same page as that section.

What does the graph you posted have to do with the fish picture I was referring to?

Here is something else I read from the booklet (page 12):

The concentration of nitrogen and phosphorous in farmed salmon feces feeds rampaging toxic algae blooms.

I noticed that the author of the booklet provides no source for that assertion. Heterosigma blooms are common in the Pacific Northwest and generally originate in remote areas away from fish farms, but because of tidal currents and wind, these blooms are brought into contact with aquaculture operations. Typically these blooms happen in still bays that salmon farms try to avoid. While it is possible that farms could contribute to some localized enhancement of blooms there is no evidence to suggest that. The booklet apparently implies that the concentration of nitrogen and phosphorous in farmed salmon feces is a real serious contributor to toxic algae; however, data from the Washington Department of Fisheries suggests that nitrogen contribution from ocean upwelling and other sources far exceeds contribution from fish farms. Lastly, the influence on ocean salinity from the Fraser River plume is a factor. What was that about making “unsupported statements of science” that Judge Rennie said last month?

https://www.whoi.edu/fileserver.do?id=39383&pt=2&p=29109
http://www.verney.ca/assets/SSEC_Presentations/Session 10/10A_NickyHaigh_Abstract.pdf
https://www.pices.int/publications/scientific_reports/Report23/HAB_Canada.pdf
 
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Sorry GLG, I don’t have any source that shows that the fish in the picture (with no caption or source) is an example of a genetic deformity. I am all “linked out”…lol. All I have to go with is my 2 years working at a federal salmon hatchery as a student, my buddies that work for the Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC and my years of sport angling. Swear to God, I actually caught a fish with that kind of mouth at a BC interior lake. Not sure what else could have caused that. I may not have a source for that photo, but if you ask the author (Alexandra Morton?) of the booklet I believe they should be able to provide you a source and perhaps some idea of the relevance of the photo to the section. As far as I am concerned it’s painfully obvious why a picture of fish like that is on the same page as that section.

I see ten of thousands of salmon each year for the last ten years and I have never see anything like that. But then again I don't look at Atlantic salmon in the stores. I see genetic problems in fry after they hatch but they don't live long as they don't compete with the healthy fish at our local community hatchery. That's the thing with nature, if the genetic expression has a benefit then it survives. If not, nature deals with it and they die. I see hundreds to thousands of adults in the fall and I have not seen genetic mutations in them either. Sick fish, yes, damaged fish, yes but mutations, no. There is no way that nature would be kind to an effed up fish like that in the ocean.

This is all pointless as your argument against that PDF is what I call "look we have pandas" you point out something that is questionable to try to discredit everything. I don't work on me as I have far to many years looking at arguments on other issues. I have been looking at fish farms issues for many years and I have come to the conclusion that the risk that industry, in it's current form, is way to big for our wild salmon. I'm not the only one that has this view. I talk with many other community based hatchery people and 99% fell the same way. I talk to hundreds of rec anglers and 99% feel the same way. Cohen has that view as well as many panels we have had in BC over the years. The recent court case that fish farms lost is just another example of this. How many times do we need to go through this until it sinks in?

June 5 / 2015 - 93 days left in your court order to clean up your effing act.
What are you going to do?



What does the graph you posted have to do with the fish picture I was referring to?
The graph shows how important, in peoples jobs, the ocean means to us.
Messing with it is a high risk venture and should not be taken lightly.

Here is something else I read from the booklet (page 12):

The concentration of nitrogen and phosphorous in farmed salmon feces feeds rampaging toxic algae blooms.

I noticed that the author of the booklet provides no source for that assertion. Heterosigma blooms are common in the Pacific Northwest and generally originate in remote areas away from fish farms, but because of tidal currents and wind, these blooms are brought into contact with aquaculture operations. Typically these blooms happen in still bays that salmon farms try to avoid. While it is possible that farms could contribute to some localized enhancement of blooms there is no evidence to suggest that. The booklet apparently implies that the concentration of nitrogen and phosphorous in farmed salmon feces is a real serious contributor to toxic algae; however, data from the Washington Department of Fisheries suggests that nitrogen contribution from ocean upwelling and other sources far exceeds contribution from fish farms. Lastly, the influence on ocean salinity from the Fraser River plume is a factor. What was that about making “unsupported statements of science” that Judge Rennie said last month?

https://www.whoi.edu/fileserver.do?id=39383&pt=2&p=29109
http://www.verney.ca/assets/SSEC_Presentations/Session 10/10A_NickyHaigh_Abstract.pdf
https://www.pices.int/publications/scientific_reports/Report23/HAB_Canada.pdf

I don't know much about toxic blooms but the Fraser River does not effect fish farms north of Campbell River.
May I suggest that you pick up the book "The Sea Among Us" by Beamish and McFarlane if you want to understand how the SoG works and the Fraser River influence.

As for shyt from fish farms.... we know it's a problem, that's why there is a push for multi-trophic fish farms.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/sci-res/imta-amti/index-eng.htm
Over the past decade, scientists have studied ways to improve the productivity and environmental sustainability of marine aquaculture practices. This includes examining the economic and environmental benefits of growing finfish, shellfish and marine plants together – an idea now known as integrated multi-trophic aquaculture.
Integrated multi-trophic aquaculture borrows a concept from nature; namely, that in the food chain, one species always finds a feeding niche in the waste generated by another species. Researchers thus tested the theory that nutrients fed to finfish would generate high-quality organic and inorganic waste that shellfish and marine plants depend on to grow.
 
Here is a handy picture to help form an objective opinion.

image-20150603-2951-17ut2r0.jpg
 
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