Fishing & the internet

scott craven

Well-Known Member
Profisher brought up a good point in another thread.
Is communicating fishing tips over the internet putting additional
pressure on the fish by enabling more angler's to a given area ??
20 years ago there was no internet...the only way to relay fishing info was word of mouth.
Today we have internet chat room to communicate all the best fishing tips,
I enjoy the interchange but often wonder if there is too much information posted. [?]
 
I was just having this conversation aboard my boat the other day.

It has always been that if you were on the water everyday, naturally you would be very productive. When I was guiding and on the water at months at a time you just knew where when and why. Because I only get out on the water a few dozen times a year now my success rate would normally have gone down. With the forum however it is as though I am fishing everyday. We all have access to daily info. From top rods to boot. My productivity out there has been unscathed to this point thanks to the free sharing of info. I think it is absolutely awsome. You are right though, todays anglers are very savy. Not like 20 years ago even. We really do have to play our part and limit what we take. The internet is here to stay I beleive.

HL
 
Agreed,
the internet does play a part in getting more people out on the water fishing limited stocks. But what i also see on here is a lot of safety and most important ethics and conservation being taught and discussed so in the end i think it is a good thing. I seen this site encourage people to step up when they see wild coho on the cleaning stations and promote conservation.
 
Interesting discussion, however I disagree with you. Yes we are better equipped and better informed but compare the catch rate to 20-30 or more years ago. 8 - 12 big salmon per day was no exeption in those days and the retention limits were retardedly high. On a good day in Sooke you have what 3 good sized salmon in the boat nowadays? So even with more boats and fishermen around and better equipment I do not believe the actual total catch went up significantly. Also, I think getting more people successful and permanently involved in sportfishing does way more good in the long term in terms of more political and economical influence of this user group. And if the stocks can't afford 20 more people catching 4 additional salmon (due to increased efficiency) more per year then the stocks are way beyond the critical state and the problem is somewhere else and not the extra few fish taken. When trying to solve a problem you have to find the best bang for the buck not the next best factor you run across. I truly believe that responsible and proper sportfishing can NOT have any significant impact on healthy salmon stocks. Or halibut for that matter.
 
Chris, yes the limits were more generous in the past...but my point was that way fewer guys were able to max out back then...because knowledge was kept a secret. Back then 90% of the fish were truly caught by 10% of the boats on the water. There are way more boats on the water now...bigger...better equipped and thats ok...but there are no secrets anymore and 90% of the boats are capable of taking limits. Its more of an observation for comment to see what everyone else thinks.
 
I didn't read all the replies, but I'm going to say NO!

When all we had were mags, books, TV shows and the local shop for advice (and your best buddies new hot secret spot you just had to tell 20 buddies about), those very few spots would get hammered.

I think the internet speed, number of sites and very high number of posts on what are a couple hundred good spots spread people rather than concentrate them.

There are around (last year stats, can't exactly remember) 200,000 fewer anglers than 10-15 years ago. This is consistent in Alberta as well.

I'd bet in the pre-net days, you'd see 100 boats hanging around the bay just waiting to ambush last week's hot guide and daisy-chain the guy all day.

That's my warped logical perspective. More and more closures will also concentrate more and more anglers.

Cheers!
 
I agree with Highlights we really have to play our part and limit what we take. This means releasing fish not just the small ones.
 
This is the way I see it.. Its taken me a good many years to learn alot of what I know, and most times I dont mind giving a little advice, however, there are some things I prefer to keep to myself.
I agree that way too much info is posted on public forums.

nootkalasttrip015.jpg

Fill the dam tub!
 
I see nothing wrong with sharing tips with fellow fishermen. It's a nice gesture, makes us feel like a big family and helps maybe putting on a big smile on a new fisherman or woman. It's just like I would lend a tool anytime to somebody stranded with a broken down car or bike beside the road. If we can't do that anymore we will surely turn into some grumpy old farts who only want all for themselves. Isn't sharing a great experience a lot more rewarding than sitting quietly on it? Those reports and infos will not hurt any stocks. Again, I am convinced that NO proper sportfishing could have a significant impact on healthy salmon stocks.
 
Chris, what would be your interpretation of proper sport fishing? I see in the not to distant future that terminal salmon runs...like Nootka and Alberni will be impacted to the point where it will be necessary to reduce limits to 1 a day. More guides, (call guides and lodges what they are...COMMERCIAL) more visitors, more daily retired guys all add up to more fish coming out...and we know no more are going back in. By the way I'm a longtime guide and consider myself commercial and I should be required to hold a license indicating that too. Back when I was a kid the boats were small, we stayed close to shore, fished restricted depths of water (gear limitations) and usually only fished a few hours a day because there was no comfort in the smaller boats. I agree with the comment about some of the lodge pics and how many salmon and hali's a single party takes out of the water in a 3 day booking. I know one group at Nootka that took out over 3000 pounds in 3 days. Maybe this is another topic that needs discussing...lodges that feel they have to promote limits to attract clients. Are they only promoting themselves out of business.
 
I probably know as much as most of the members on this forum, when it comes to fishing salmon on Vancouver Island. And, I probably share most of the information I have learned over the years. Almost everything I have learned from others. Very little of the techniques I use have been developed by me, ever though there are a few. I have fished the entire WCVI and most of the ECVI and have truly enjoyed going to the new places and learning the different techniques from everyone over the years. However, one doesn't know the real reason for my trek… and there was a reason, it is called "people"! Throughout the years, I kept moving north just to get away from all the people!

Let me see if I can get this timeline right?
30 years ago: Ucluelet and Bamfield were the hot spots on the WCVI, with Tofino coming in a close third. Campbell River was the spot on the ECVI, period and it was where all the families went. There were limited facilities on the WCVI. The above were truly fishing villages, with Campbell River being the exception. It was a true town. Electric downriggers were not allowed and if you could not properly cut plug a herring, you weren't going to catch a fish! We didn't have flashers or teaser heads. Most used chrome dodgers, which I still have. I am not sure, but I doubt if most on this forum was even born? There was NO Internet!

Around 25 years ago: The above were still the hot spots and Campbell River was still the spot on ECVI; however, the Campbell River collapse started in 1992 and the fishery was pretty much finished by 1995, but it was still a crowded place. On the other side, in 95 while fishing Ucluelet it got so crowded, I couldn't even go off the back of the boat, due to the number of women and families that year. It was crowded all the way from Wya Point down to Bamfield and the fishing was bad close to shore. The guides and "cattle boats", did run offshore to the Big Bank and I followed them. Due to the crowds, I opted to move farther north to "get away". None of you… guides included, had even heard of "Ferrer Point", but guess what, I was there and fishing it… and I was all by myself! By then I was using electric downriggers, flashers, and teaser heads and was knocking them dead and they were big. I was one of maybe four or five sport boats in Tahsis. You didn't need reservations anywhere north of Tofino! Westview Marine, Critter Cove, Gold River Fish Camp, Rodgers Fishing Lodge all had just started up. There was one other lodge in Tahsis Narrows, called Ceepeecee. By 1997 "guide boats started showing at Ferrer, coming out of Campbell River, Ucluelet, Bamfield, and Port Alberni. I went from the only boat in 1996 to counting about 75 boats there in 1998. Guess what guys? I did not tell a soul, nor did any of my fishing partners, as the fishing was so good, we all swore secrecy. By then everyone was using electric downriggers, flashers, and teaser heads. There was still very little Internet!

Around 20 years ago: There was NO fishery to speak of in Nootka, until 1994 and it really didn't start getting good till 1995 and 96. The crowds didn't start showing in force, until ALL the lodges started popping up with "guides", that was around 1997. Prior to that, there were only a couple of guides in Tahsis, anyone remember "Red"? Critter didn't have any, one at Gold River Fish Camp, the owner... and lodge and guide at Friendly Cove. None of the rest of you existed! By 1998, there were people and guides fishing ALL OVER THE PLACE! My secret wasn't so secret anymore. At least most members on this forum was now born. Some lodges, guides, and marinas were starting to advertise… But still, very little Internet.

About 10 Years ago: I moved farther north to Kyuquot and Winter Harbour, still "to get away from the crowds"! The first time I went to Walters Cove, I had to arrange for fuel, as they had no fuel dock. I remember thinking and stating, finally a place we can fish "without crowds". All the way there, I kept thinking that! Well was I surprised! When I pulled in at Spring Island, what did I find? About 25-30 sport fishing boats, along with a "fleet" of guides from Murphy's Sport Fishing, out of Ucluelet. The first time at Winter Harbour, during the first week of August, I was one of the sport boats on the government dock. There were quite a few sport boats in the private marina and the campground across the road was full of campers and trailers. When I went out fishing there were sport boats all over the place; to include all the way from Brooks to Cox. I still don't know where all those boats came from? I do have to admit there was not a boat at Triangle! Most people were just now getting on the Internet!

5 years ago: I believe everyone in the world is on the internet! Nevertheless, I fighting the crowd hasn't changed for well over 20 years! It is not much better or worse these days, than then.

Concerning the commercial fleet, I have seen the BC salmon commercial fleet go from a robust industry to basically a "dead" industry. Even 20 years ago, those boys were bringing in some serious salmon! I used to be amazed at the amount of salmon those boats would off load… and it was day after day, boat after boat! I do not believe the sport sector could ever compete with the amount of fish I have seen brought in, in their prime. You keep thinking about their TAC now; think about their TAC 20 years ago? Some sport anglers and guides might be good, but don't flatter yourself… they were better! There is no way the sport sector will ever take that much salmon, especially knowing most of the fish was coming in from offshore!

Now concerning sharing knowledge. That is strictly a personal preference, which I chose to do. In addition, I will continue to do so. There are approximately 3000 members on this forum and they all do not read the saltwater section, but even if all did - that is only a drop in the bucket, compared to the number of total anglers fishing off Vancouver Island and really do you think they are all going to go out and catch their limits? "Secrets", "Prefer keeping to myself", "Years to learn", "etc"… Give me a break! Like I said it is strictly a personal preference to share information or not, but don't anyone flatter yourself with that either. I seriously doubt if there is a person on this forum (myself included) that has developed any secret or unknown technique to catch a salmon. Years to learn? Not years to learn, if it has taken years to learn, something is wrong; however, years to perfect, I would certainly agree with! Most will never perfect it. That is were 10 percent of the fisherman catch 90 percent of the fish, yep! I agree with that and I really don't think that will ever change. That is one reason I don't mind sharing the information! I am one of those 10 percent. What I have found over the years (many times over) is you can explain and tell someone everything you know; to include, what, where, when, and how, but they have to perfect it themselves. That is the trick… only 10 percent will ever effectively learn how to catch a fish, let alone a salmon! I don't think that will ever change!

I guess this was a little more than 2 cents, eh? :)
 
Charlie...come on there are secrets...they are what make the 10% consistent at bringing home a fish or two. No one will ever get it figured out I totally agree...just like golf! lol But there are definetly less boats coming home without fish (and I only mean summer Chinook) Another example would be Hali's. Only a few years ago only a select few knew, where, when and how. Now everyone is dropping gear and starting to bring in lunkers. A 100 pound plus hali was just a pipe dream for many, not now.
We all have secret ways of rigging bait, doctoring lures, when we fish a spot etc etc. They are less secrets within the 10% or I think 60% now, maybe just slight variations of the same thing. I don't agree that it is 10% anymore. 10% may still be above in knowledge but another 50% are not that far behind.
 
Forgot to comment on this point...yes the commercial guys took a lot of fish 20+ years ago, each boat could run up to 100 pieces of gear if in deep offshore waters. No 2 or 3 rigger sport boat could catch as many in a day. Restrict the commercial boat to 2 or 3 lines and we would have a competition. I think we would win over a season. (commercial guys didn't know anything about bait) Another thought...how secretive were the commercial trollers back in the day? Scrambled radios, working in small groups to find fish etc etc. Do you think you would ever see any of them on here spilling info if the internet was around back then? The bottom feeders would have been here looking for scraps...but not the highliners!
 
Yeah, I have always felt somewhat secure in telling a guy the details. To the weekend warrior the deal seems so basic; but when you add in wind , wave, tide, current, trolling speed, lure speed, roll, colour,size,depth,location,sonar,radar,season,water clarity,run size, species, other boats, moon phases etc........It becomes blatently clear that in most cases there are just far too many variables for the novice to become a truly rounded and consistent angler that will ultimately end up in that 10% we are talking about. It will take a guy a lifetime to acheive that. What we discuss online are details that are building blocks for most. What they choose to do with the information is up to the sincereity and devotion they show for the sport.The willingness to put it all together will always be up to them.At that point they will have earned the right to a reputation of being in that 10%. Otherwise it's in one ear and out the other.

You have to remember that if the fish are there you will catch them to a certain degree. It's not rocket science. However with todays numbers you really do have to enlist every ounce of knowledge to take those same few fish. In most cases today, it's not "just that easy" anymore.

HL
 
The fact is you still need to be either lucky or a half decent fisherman to get fish in the boat. The Oak Bay scramble that we had back in may was a good example. lots of boats only a few with fish.

I feel strongly that sportfishers need to support each other with info etc. so we can grow the sport back to a level where we are a more powerful lobby group than commercial interests. Right now we get taken advantage of through the "divide and conquer" tactic.
 
I didnt read all the longer replies above, but I have never personally relied on reports in order to choose my fishing location or technique. As someone said above, there are simply too many variables involved.

I now my tactics and areas, and they have produced in the past. If i focus on my game and strategy that have always worked for me, then good things will happen!

something i get a kick out of is an example of this... "a 47 lb hog was taken at otter lastnight on anchovie at 47 feet".

I wonder how many guys read this and bomb straight to otter point and drop to 47 feet. haha

fish move... everything changes hour by hour!
 
So, I guess I am either a "bottom feeder" or a " gorbie ", not sure which, but I think there are commercials around on the internet: http://www.salmontrolling.com/index.php?sid=b313d672c5575dd28ed3cd268d200c25 Plus, we have a couple on here in which one freely shares information: IronNoggin :D

Concerning secrets, nope not really any! Highlights pretty much said it correct, "To the weekend warrior the deal seems so basic; but when you add in wind , wave, tide, current, trolling speed, lure speed, roll, colour,size,depth,location,sonar,radar,season,water clarity,run size, species, other boats, moon phases etc........" That was proven again one day at Renfrew this summer. Bananas and I were fishing side by side... I believe, we were the only two boats catching fish and did limit. The other boats didn't do so well and "he" was on the radio telling where and how! :)

Concerning the "real" 10% that we are talking about. The Evolution of Recreational Salmon Fisheries in British Columbia, Report to the Pacific Fisheries Resource Conservation Council This is from a study done in 2006: Recreational Fishing Success Rates</u>
"On a per fish basis, in 2004 the 332,693 licensed tidal water anglers caught 453,218 salmon, or an average of 1.4 salmon per angler. With respect to the separate species, tidal anglers caught an average of one-half a chinook each, one-third of a coho, one- quarter of a sockeye, one-twelfth of a chum and one-fourteenth of a pink."

It is obvious that these averages disguise the fact that some anglers are much more successful than others. In his 1982 report, Peter Pearse concluded that “Ten percent of the fishermen catch more than half of the total catch, while nearly 40 percent catch no salmon at all”. Tidal water anglers surveyed in DFO’s 2000 Survey of Recreational Fishing in Canada claimed to have kept an average of 5.2 fish of all species and these recall numbers probably are biased on the high side. For example, respondents to the survey claimed to have caught 239,783 chinook salmon while the DFO creel survey says the actual number was 133,248.19 The difference between these two numbers highlights the need for accurate catch monitoring to support conservation efforts."

There is no danger of sharing anything with other anglers or the 3000 anglers on this forum! :)

IMHO! :D
 
Back
Top