Fish Farm trouble in BC.

[terrin]

This might help answer that.

Global fisheries landings ceased increasing decades ago, causing an increasing shortfall in wild seafood supply and an expansion of aquaculture. The abundance of domesticated fishes now dwarfs related wild fishes in some coastal seas, changing the dynamics of their infectious diseases. Transport and trade of seafood, feed, eggs, and broodstock bring pathogens into new regions and into contact with naïve hosts. Density-dependent transmission creates threshold effects where disease can abruptly switch from endemic to epizootic dynamics. Hydrodynamics allow pathogens to disperse broadly, interconnecting farms into metapopulations of domesticated host fish in regions that also support related species of wild fish. Spillover and spillback dynamics of pathogen transmission between wild and farmed fish can create novel transmission pathways or bioamplify pathogen abundance, potentially depressing or endangering wild fish. Mortality from natural predator–prey interactions may be synergistic or compensatory with these increased infections. Domestic environments may favour the evolution of undesirable pathogen traits, such as virulence and drug resistance, leading to the emergence of strains that cause high mortality and (or) evade treatment. Overall, these changes to the dynamics of infectious disease in coastal seas impose new constraints on the sustainability of both wild and farmed fish.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/10.1139/cjfas-2016-0379#.Wib627anGUk

Seems like we are knowingly playing with fire in regards to disease transfers from Fish Farms to Wild fish and back again waiting for the ultimate death mutation on Wild Fish. The Wild Fish and all that depend on them are seriously getting burned. It's pretty disgusting and disapointing that the Feds are knowingly allowing this to take place. Hopefully Horgan will take a more respectfull tack and make the right decision in regards to renewing the tenures.

 

[terrin]

Yeah, that's gotta be good for the wild salmon and environment...
Nope, nothing to see here... move along, move along...

Don't know why they are laughing in the video this is terrible to have those sludgy, slimey, smelly disintegrating dead Farm Fish polluting the Ocean. That can't be good for anything else living in the neighborhood.

 

[Dave]

Good question, Dave. Maybe the abbreviation "U/S" means "upstream" (from the Lake) spawners?

From: Canadian Science Advisory Secretariat Pacific Region Science Response 2016/021

Summer Run Stocks

In most years, the Summer Run stocks dominate total Fraser Sockeye returns. Six stocks in this timing group are forecast using the standard suite of forecast models: Chilko, Late Stuart, Quesnel, Stellako and the recently added Raft and Harrison (Table 1A).

Harrison (Harrison-River Type CU): Recently re-assigned from Late Run Group to the Summer group Harrison Sockeye have a unique life history and age structure compared to other Fraser Sockeye stocks. They migrate to the ocean shortly after gravel emergence (most Fraser Sockeye rear in lakes for one year after gravel emergence prior to their ocean migration). After two to three years in the ocean, Harrison Sockeye return as three or four year old fish (most Fraser Sockeye return as four and five year old fish). Proportions of three and four year old Harrison recruits vary considerably annually, with four year old proportions ranging from 10% to 90% of total recruits (Grant et al. 2010). Odd brood years, on average, produce a higher proportion of four year old recruits, and even years produce a similar proportion of three year old recruits (Grant et al. 2010). Though the difference in odd versus even year age proportions is accounted for in the Harrison forecast models (MacDonald & Grant 2012), the extreme variation in age-at-maturity for Harrison Sockeye increases the level of forecast uncertainty for this stock.

Late Run Stocks

The Late Run consists of five forecasted stocks (Cultus, Late Shuswap, Portage, Weaver, and Birkenhead) and one miscellaneous stock (miscellaneous non-Shuswap including Harrison stocks that migrate downstream to Harrison Lake as fry to rear in this lake) (Table 1A);

Miscellaneous Harrison/Lillooet Lakes (Harrison (downstream)-L) The 2012 brood year EFS for the miscellaneous Harrison/Lillooet Lake stocks is 1,400 (Table 1B, column C). Populations included in this group include those that rear in the Harrison-Lillooet Lake system, and are not included in the Harrison or Birkenhead forecasts (Big Silver, Cogburn, Crazy, Douglas, Green, Pemberton, Pool, Railroad/Sampson, Ryan, Sloquet and Tipella Creeks).

Weaver (Harrison (U/S)-L CU) The 2012 brood year escapement for Weaver (400 EFS) was the smallest escapement on record, falling well below the cycle average (1968-2012: 18,300 EFS) (Table 1B, column C).

I think you're right aa. There is a summer run of sockeye that spawn in Big Silver River, a trib to Harrison Lake.

 

[agentaqua]

Don't know why they are laughing in the video this is terrible to have those sludgy, slimey, smelly disintegrating dead Farm Fish polluting the Ocean. That can't be good for anything else living in the neighborhood.

They are prob. laughing because of the smell and mess that is getting on them - either you get grossed-out - or one laughs it off. Hard to say if they are thinking at all about the potential for pathogen transmission. It's interesting on how different and corrosive the rancid fat is that comes off farmed fish - as compared to dead wild salmon.

 

[fogged in]

Yet another Fish Farm story in the Times Colonist today and no doubt in and on many other media.
AND 2 strongly worded anti fish farm letters to the editor as well
Sorry...still can't figure out the link this stuff...edit...story just came up on Google
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...es-fish-farm-ban-urges-same-in-b-c-1.23114031
The Fish Farm guys can't be pleased about all the publicity!

Fish Farm curbs in Washington state pushed
Senator introduces bill in legislature, calls for B.C. to take same step
A Washington state senator is introducing legislation to ban open-net pen Fish Farms and says British Columbia should do the same.

 

[spopadyn]

They are prob. laughing because of the smell and mess that is getting on them - either you get grossed-out - or one laughs it off. Hard to say if they are thinking at all about the potential for pathogen transmission. It's interesting on how different and corrosive the rancid fat is that comes off farmed fish - as compared to dead wild salmon.

So, I have one question for the group here. Simple. What is the largest cause of Salmon mortality that the industry faces today? Is it FF? Over fishing? Pollution? Or climate change (i.e: the warming of the water systems and lack of rain at the right time are causing fish to fail at spawning....not entering the system?). Or something else. In one article I read, they blame the greatest decline on changing water temperatures and over fishing but I have no idea what the actual scientific consensus is. Just looking for answers to the issues not trying to start a war.

 

[cuttlefish]

Doesn't really matter what I think the answer to your question is and I'm sure you will get a variety of answers from this group here.
So you might try reading the Cohen Commissioner Report for starters. here is a link to it; http://publications.gc.ca/site/eng/432516/publication.html

 

[california]

So, I have one question for the group here. Simple. What is the largest cause of Salmon mortality that the industry faces today? Is it FF? Over fishing? Pollution? Or climate change (i.e: the warming of the water systems and lack of rain at the right time are causing fish to fail at spawning....not entering the system?). Or something else. In one article I read, they blame the greatest decline on changing water temperatures and over fishing but I have no idea what the actual scientific consensus is. Just looking for answers to the issues not trying to start a war.

I think if you had read any of the review papers posted by several of the posters you would of course see the reasons for the decline are multifactorial. Warming temperatures have an effect but its a global problem we can do little about locally. Habitat destruction is important, and in many places development has ensured we can not get that habitat back, Overfishing has long been an issue and still is, and The science here and in Europe seems to point strongly to Fish farms also be contributing (I know bones will post his usual "what stocks and how many" nonsense in response - the science to determine that is either unfeasible or unethical) . We can stop destroying habitat and make some attempts to enhance it which to some extent are being done, we can try to mitigate pollution, there seems to be little will to reduce overfishing but it can be done, and of course fish farms could be moved on land, and in the abscence of definitive proof they do not cause harm probably should be.

So we can support habitat enhancement, responsible fishing, and one of the actions we can also take is to keep the pressure up on the fish farming industry to actually do something to prove it is safe. More importantly that industry will provide opportunities like Browns Bay to show their disregard for the BC environment, and those opportunities are where governments might be pursuaded to increase regulations. Each time a new regulation or restriction is placed on the industry, its an increased cost. Civil disobedience by Natives occupying farms increases costs. The only way we will get rid of the open net pens is thorough economics. If the cost of open net farming keeps going up, and advances in land based production reduce those costs, eventually it could switch over. The industry doesn't care about the environment, wild fish or what any of us think of it. They are foreign owned companies trying to make as much money as possible for their executives and shareholders, that's why they exist. And it will likely only be by that financial equation we will get rid of them from our waters as governments (Liberal and NDP) do not have the will to do so.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Good post California, I think you pretty well nailed it!

 

[agentaqua]

Good post California, I think you pretty well nailed it!

X2!

 

[terrin]

Doesn't really matter what I think the answer to your question is and I'm sure you will get a variety of answers from this group here.
So you might try reading the Cohen Commissioner Report for starters. here is a link to it; http://publications.gc.ca/site/eng/432516/publication.html

This Washington State Rep. calls it an emergency to remove Open Net Pen Fish Farms and I agree with him.
Two Republican state lawmakers have introduced legislation to immediately ban Atlantic salmon net pens in Puget Sound.

“This is an emergency,” said state Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, prime co-sponsor of the legislation, which would make Atlantic salmon net-pen farming illegal in Washington waters.https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iate-ban-on-atlantic-net-pens-too-and-faster/

 

[wildmanyeah]

This Washington State Rep. calls it an emergency to remove Open Net Pen Fish Farms and I agree with him.
Two Republican state lawmakers have introduced legislation to immediately ban Atlantic salmon net pens in Puget Sound.

“This is an emergency,” said state Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, prime co-sponsor of the legislation, which would make Atlantic salmon net-pen farming illegal in Washington waters.https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iate-ban-on-atlantic-net-pens-too-and-faster/

Just another example of Republicans wanting to kill and industry in a state that a democratic base depends on. This has nothing to do with fish farms and everything to do with the current politics down their.

 

[GLG]

Just another example of Republicans wanting to kill and industry in a state that a democratic base depends on. This has nothing to do with fish farms and everything to do with the current politics down their.

Well that's odd because in the news article that was posted they had a link to another bill that came before it from a guy with a D after his name. Looks to me link both parties want them gone and they are going to not renew their permits/lease. Imagine that. Could there be a lesson for us here in BC how we could get our fish farms off the salmon migration routes?
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...ell-file-bill-to-ban-atlantic-salmon-farming/

 

[terrin]

Just another example of Republicans wanting to kill and industry in a state that a democratic base depends on. This has nothing to do with fish farms and everything to do with the current politics down their.

Fish farms are fine, they allow the average person to eat salmon with out impacting wild stocks (If they are on land). This was your post is this no longer your position?

 

[wildmanyeah]

Fish farms are fine, they allow the average person to eat salmon with out impacting wild stocks (If they are on land). This was your post is this no longer your position?

That is still my stance but i was posting about the news article (republicans are going after dem states) not my overall view on fish farms. I also think there might be an opportunity to place fish farms in freshwater locations like site C.

Yes i am pro fish farms if done right, backed by science and regulation and placed in good locations.

you guys are tough lol

 

[spopadyn]

I think if you had read any of the review papers posted by several of the posters you would of course see the reasons for the decline are multifactorial. Warming temperatures have an effect but its a global problem we can do little about locally. Habitat destruction is important, and in many places development has ensured we can not get that habitat back, Overfishing has long been an issue and still is, and The science here and in Europe seems to point strongly to Fish farms also be contributing (I know bones will post his usual "what stocks and how many" nonsense in response - the science to determine that is either unfeasible or unethical) . We can stop destroying habitat and make some attempts to enhance it which to some extent are being done, we can try to mitigate pollution, there seems to be little will to reduce overfishing but it can be done, and of course fish farms could be moved on land, and in the abscence of definitive proof they do not cause harm probably should be.

So we can support habitat enhancement, responsible fishing, and one of the actions we can also take is to keep the pressure up on the fish farming industry to actually do something to prove it is safe. More importantly that industry will provide opportunities like Browns Bay to show their disregard for the BC environment, and those opportunities are where governments might be pursuaded to increase regulations. Each time a new regulation or restriction is placed on the industry, its an increased cost. Civil disobedience by Natives occupying farms increases costs. The only way we will get rid of the open net pens is thorough economics. If the cost of open net farming keeps going up, and advances in land based production reduce those costs, eventually it could switch over. The industry doesn't care about the environment, wild fish or what any of us think of it. They are foreign owned companies trying to make as much money as possible for their executives and shareholders, that's why they exist. And it will likely only be by that financial equation we will get rid of them from our waters as governments (Liberal and NDP) do not have the will to do so.

I guess what I am trying to understand is this: if we got rid of every fish farm, is there any estimate on what the positive effects on the population this would have? Would our salmon returns increase by 1%, 5%, or 50%? If we removed the FF's, and it didn't move the needle, then where should we be putting our efforts? I am assuming somebody out there has some kind of estimates. If 95% of the salmon's suffering is a result of climate change or habitat destruction (and btw, hydroelectric is one of the largest sources of habitat destruction), shouldn't we be working on fixing that? Over fishing is a simple regulatory change. Maybe we could ban commercial and sport fishing or institute a partial ban for one season and see if it changed the numbers. Maybe we could park our fishing trips for a year and see if it helps the salmon.

 

[agentaqua]

I think there has been enough evidence and science posted on this thread - over the past 33 pages or so - that some broad-scale assertions/assumptions can be made.

Every site has overlapping temporal and spatial scales - and potential and realized impacts that fluctuate - and so those potential and realized impacts vary. They vary annually, seasonally, weekly, daily, and hourly - dependent upon many complex interacting factors such as tidal flows, estuarine flow, regional weather and watershed-scale run-off, large-scale climatic processes like PDO/El Niño and La Niña/CC, migratory and holding behaviour of both juvenile and adult salmon - stocking densities and fish health of the cultured fish and the wild fish - and position of that particular site within this mix of interacting and synergistic variables.

If we average these impacts over time and geographic area - a trend develops - where Ford and Myers (2008) found: "reductions in survival or abundance are greater than 50%" on wild salmon from farmed salmon operations: http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.0060033

A responsible regulator would take these findings with the seriousness they deserve...

 

[fogged in]

Just another example of Republicans wanting to kill and industry in a state that a democratic base depends on. This has nothing to do with fish farms and everything to do with the current politics down their.

Your research on this post has failed you
If you had read either of the post on the subject this morning you would have saved yourself the embarrassment.
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/l...es-fish-farm-ban-urges-same-in-b-c-1.23114031
Democratic Sen. Kevin Ranker represents Orcas Islands. More than 100,000 Atlantic salmon escaped from a farm in his district in July.
Or had you read another post from this morning
Two Republican lawmakers have filed legislation to ban Atlantic salmon net pens, with emergency legislation to effect immediate shut down.
Lynda V. Mapes
Seattle Times environment reporter
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iate-ban-on-atlantic-net-pens-too-and-faster/

 

[GLG]

I guess what I am trying to understand is this: if we got rid of every fish farm, is there any estimate on what the positive effects on the population this would have? Would our salmon returns increase by 1%, 5%, or 50%? If we removed the FF's, and it didn't move the needle, then where should we be putting our efforts? I am assuming somebody out there has some kind of estimates. If 95% of the salmon's suffering is a result of climate change or habitat destruction (and btw, hydroelectric is one of the largest sources of habitat destruction), shouldn't we be working on fixing that? Over fishing is a simple regulatory change. Maybe we could ban commercial and sport fishing or institute a partial ban for one season and see if it changed the numbers. Maybe we could park our fishing trips for a year and see if it helps the salmon.

We have been running an experiment on wild coho for 15 years or more. So far it tells us that reducing fishing pressure has not fixed it. We know that what happens in the fresh water can affect those stocks but you would think with all that time we would see many good news stories but sadly it's nothing like the good old days. Many of us on this website are just your average anglers who have volunteered on local rivers, streams and hatcheries. I'm one of those guys and I work with coho. We watch the science to help us on our own systems and to tell you the truth the only thing that is working is to increase the carrying capacity of the wild component. For some reason they survive better than the hatchery ones. We know there can be different techniques to up the hatchery smolt to adult return ratio and many of us are doing that. In the past we had numbers like 15% hatchery smolt to adult return. Now if you do every just right and everything else is perfect in the ocean then if you're lucky maybe you get 5%. Most years it's closer to 1% or less. This is why I question the impact of fish farms.

 

[spopadyn]

We have been running an experiment on wild coho for 15 years or more. So far it tells us that reducing fishing pressure has not fixed it. We know that what happens in the fresh water can affect those stocks but you would think with all that time we would see many good news stories but sadly it's nothing like the good old days. Many of us on this website are just your average anglers who have volunteered on local rivers, streams and hatcheries. I'm one of those guys and I work with coho. We watch the science to help us on our own systems and to tell you the truth the only thing that is working is to increase the carrying capacity of the wild component. For some reason they survive better than the hatchery ones. We know there can be different techniques to up the hatchery smolt to adult return ratio and many of us are doing that. In the past we had numbers like 15% hatchery smolt to adult return. Now if you do every just right and everything else is perfect in the ocean then if you're lucky maybe you get 5%. Most years it's closer to 1% or less. This is why I question the impact of fish farms.

So what were the numbers like before fish farms? Was it 15-20% before the FF's arrived or was it a similar number? You would think this is simple data documentation. GLG, you probably have these numbers over the last 30 years - can you post them?