Drinking aboard your boat!

[dougthefisher]

For your information
In British Colombia (and in all of Canadian waters) ... Alcohol can only be "aboard" a vessel that has: permanent sleeping accommodations, and permanent cooking, and legal sanitary facilities; and alcohol can only be "consumed" on these vessels while the boat is at anchor, or is secured to the dock or land.
I think that is self explanatory.

 

[scott craven]

And I'll bet that no one ever breaks that rule !

 

[Fish Camp]

Heard alcohol has to be behind a lock aswell.same rules apply with land camping.heard tenting and alcohol could lead to care and conctrol of motor viehical

 

[dougthefisher]

And I'll bet that no one ever breaks that rule !

Just sayin, as some people tend to use the computer as an extension of the mouth rather the brain.

 

[scott craven]

Common sense should prevail, although not always....

 

[Clint r]

Copied from Castanets news service.

I'm with the guy who figures the RCMP makes this stuff up as they go along.

Jennifer Zielinski - Jul 14 5:00 am
A recent crack down by RCMP to enforce a boating regulation, has Castanet readers up in arms.
Boaters are allowed to indulge in an alcoholic beverage on Okanagan Lake (as long as they aren't driving) - but they can't band together to create a floating party.
According to Const. Steve Holmes drinking is allowed in an individual boat, but when they are lashed together it falls under the same rules as drinking in any public place, which is illegal.
"Whether is it space on land or created on water, it falls under the same provincial regulations," said Holmes, adding the aim of the law is cut down on floating parties.
Commenters on Castanet responded with outrage:
Raymond Jolicoeur stated: How ridiculous! There are no clear laws and I believe the officers are making it up as they go. We've tied up for years on the Shuswap, have had enforcement visit us and have never been told of such a regulation.
xunholyx asked: So it's also okay to drink in a car as long as you aren't the operator and aren't lashed together with other cars I presume? I'm not sure I understand this definition of private and public property.
Deckar Nfs inquired: So drinking while camping is illegal too? He said it right there, "Whether is it space on land or created on water."
Steve wanted to know: Can Const. Steve Holmes (or anyone else) tell us exactly in which act, regulation or bylaw covers this? I've seen Kelowna RCMP get things wrong in the past and declare something illegal when the Ministry of Justice came out and said it wasn't illegal.
Dan Singla wrote: I'm not sure how boat owners would feel knowing their property is considered public space when tied up. Imagine random people swimming out and boarding the tied boats. This is silly.
Jay Cole wrote: If you just anchor instead of tying together you legally negate the statue.
Several more readers took to our forums, with their concerns over this law.
The law police are enforcing falls under the Liquor Control and Licensing Branch of B.C. Where it states that in this province you are not allowed to drink alcohol in a public place-such as a street or a park-unless it has been specially approved as a place where drinking may occur (during a community festival where there is a liquor licence in place, for example). You may drink alcohol outside at your home or at your campsite.
Boats become a public space when two or more vessels join up together.
Since boats operate on public waterways, liquor may only be consumed in boats or other water crafts if the vessel is licensed or it is being used as a residence. In the case of a residence, owners and their guests may consume liquor in the cabin or on the deck of their boat.
The reason two or more boats become a public space, when tied together, is in accordance with B.C. Liquor Control and Licensing Act, which states:
A "public place" includes:
a place, building, passenger conveyance, boat or land to which the public resort or are permitted access
a motor vehicle located on land to which the public resort or are permitted access
Holmes explains a public place as anywhere the public can gain reasonable access.
"When you have other boats coming up alongside your boat, then there is that access. Even if people don't bother going onto someone else's boat or you don't go onto their boat it means access, you can pass alcohol back and forth. It is the intention to allow access by others to your boat which makes it easy to hop from one boat to another and makes it a public space."
The public place law extends to boats mooring at a dock or wharf, as it allows access for the public to get to the boat.
When asked why a single boat out on the water isn't a public place, Holmes replied because it is only accessible via another boat, and typically people don't swim from shore to the middle of the lake. Once the vessel is accessed by a second boat and alcohol is involved, that is where the problem tends to lay.
"I would say it's where the public can gain reasonable access, so if I can easily get to your boat then it would become a public space," says Holmes, who adds every situation is different and would be assessed by the attending officer, as to whether a ticket for a boating infraction would be issued.

 

[agentaqua]

Interesting post Clint. Raises some interesting legal incongruities and issues that may have to be sorted out in court. The RCMP members interpretation of the law is only that - an "interpretation" until ruled on in court and becoming part of case law. It can also be argued both ways:

If when tied-up in a raft - and assuming the RCMP have a correct interpretation of what "public" means - how can anyone be in "charge or control of a vehicle, vessel or aircraft" if it is now a publically owned/operated vehicle?

If someone wants to trespass on your "public" boat - now what?

http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/ID/freeside/00_96462_01

""premises" means land, including enclosed land, foreshore and land covered by water, and anything on the land including

(a) a building or other permanent structure,

(b) a ship or vessel, train, railway car or vehicle, except while in operation,

(c) a trailer or a portable structure designed or used as a residence, for shelter or to house a business, and

(d) water;

"vehicle" has the same meaning as in the Motor Vehicle Act."

Seems the BC Liquor Act, and the BC Trespass and Motor Vehicle Acts are in disagreement.

Then there is the Federal Criminal Code: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/FullText.html

s.98(2): "(2) In this section, “break” has the same meaning as in section 321, and “place” means any building or structure — or part of one — and any motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft, railway vehicle, container or trailer."

That BC Liquor Act is "Provincial". The Criminal Code is "Federal". Federal Acts always supersede Provincial ones to the extent of the discrepancy.

It does seem that: "the officers are making it up as they go"

 

[dougthefisher]

http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/lclb/LLinBC/basics.htm

"Having open liquor and drinking liquor in open vessels, small water craft, or vessels which are not equipped to be living quarters is not allowed."

You can put up all the arguments you like. that statement is perfectly clear. it doesn't say rafted not rafted on the hook or on the dock. it does say not allowed!

 

[agentaqua]

For me, Doug - I doubt if I would argue against the drinking prohibitions - and I hope that I would never be in the position of drinking and driving a boat, and get charged for doing so. My issue was the public/private assertion/interpretation by the RCMP. What I was saying was there is(are) an obvious legal incongruity(s) that may need to get sorted out in court.

 

[Mike_R]

So if one places a "No Trespassing" sign on the stern of their "rafted" yacht, they're good to go?

 

[agentaqua]

So if one places a "No Trespassing" sign on the stern of their "rafted" yacht, they're good to go?

Maybe?

Cops can board a vessel if they have "reasonable and probable grounds", however - irrespective of consent.

 

[dougthefisher]

So if one places a "No Trespassing" sign on the stern of their "rafted" yacht, they're good to go?

Having open liquor and drinking liquor in open vessels, small water craft, or vessels which are not equipped to be living quarters is not allowed.
what is it about that statement you do not understand? I find it disconcerning that in 2015 people feel drinking and boating is cool

 

[Seafever]

I believe the rule is that if you live aboard your boat, let's say, as a residence:- if it's stationary or tied up you can drink........but if you are running that same boat and you are underway and you are the pilot and you are drinking...then you're illegal.



I never drink on my boat....I like to enjoy drinking, and fishing, being the pain in the butt that it is sometimes, interferes with my enjoyment.

 

[Rum Buddies]

Having open liquor and drinking liquor in open vessels, small water craft, or vessels which are not equipped to be living quarters is not allowed.
what is it about that statement you do not understand? I find it disconcerning that in 2015 people feel drinking and boating is cool

Having a cold beer while trolling around in the sun is enjoyable and SOME of us can have a beer or two and not turn into mouth breathing drunks.

I bet 75% of boats in JDF are breaking the drinking laws on any given day. RCMP knows people are drinking in their boats, it's being drunk they are concerned with.

But not me of course, I would never break the law...

 

[Mike_R]

Having open liquor and drinking liquor in open vessels, small water craft, or vessels which are not equipped to be living quarters is not allowed.
what is it about that statement you do not understand? I find it disconcerning that in 2015 people feel drinking and boating is cool

I'm surprised that you have interpreted my post the way you have. I stated the word "Yacht", typically a yacht has living quarters on board.

My post was a reaction to the statement by police that because your vessel is rafted up to another it suddenly becomes "public".

I do not condone operating a vessel under the influence of alcohol or any other drug. But that doesn't mean that I think there is any problem drinking aboard ones "Yacht" as long as some one is sober operating it.

 

[dougthefisher]

Having a cold beer while trolling around in the sun is enjoyable and SOME of us can have a beer or two and not turn into mouth breathing drunks.

I bet 75% of boats in JDF are breaking the drinking laws on any given day. RCMP knows people are drinking in their boats, it's being drunk they are concerned with.

But not me of course, I would never break the law...

So breaking some laws is ok? can you let me know which ones because your logic is becoming confusing. drinking in your boat is just as bad as drinking in your car and I know I can have 3 or 4 and drive. is it ok with you that I do that then? maybe bottle in 1 hand phone in the other is ok.

 

[agentaqua]

I think we can all agree drinking and "driving" is a really dumb idea nowadays (I know Poppa - it's enticing to just have ONE..).

I guess the biggest potential difference is that most people don't live in their cars - generally. Many people do live on their boats. So - taking the argument to it's farthest extreme - do you think it would be ok for the police to determine your house is public property and then charge you for drinking there? Selectively using a conflicted and potentially illegal clause in 1 Provincial Act while ignoring other Federal and Provincial Acts and their definitions? Just because they don't like "parties" on the water?

You know rafting and/or anchoring together can be an effective safety strategy - especially when there are limited areas and scope for anchoring....

What if you are not operating a vehicle? Should it be ok to drink, then?

It's the private/public determination/assertion by police that I (and maybe Mike R) have an issue with - *NOT* the prohibition regarding being "under the influence while operating a motor vehicle"...

They can give breathalysers to those operating vehicles - just saying...

 

[Rum Buddies]

So breaking some laws is ok? can you let me know which ones because your logic is becoming confusing. drinking in your boat is just as bad as drinking in your car and I know I can have 3 or 4 and drive. is it ok with you that I do that then? maybe bottle in 1 hand phone in the other is ok.

Apples and oranges Doug...



...Now If you attached a lawn mower engine to your car and used that to slowly drive 2mph circles in a huge open field trolling for gophers then ya I'd say I'd be fine with that. I don't think sipping on a beer in that scenario would cause any problems.

 

[profisher]

When I'm asked if customers can drink on the boat my answer is yes but you can't get drunk. As the guide/skipper I never drink while I'm working and I'm in control of the boat and also in control of my customers consumption. If I see something I don't like they are told...if they don't listen they are taken to shore and the trip is done at full cost to them. Obviously I'm not anchored or at a dock so breaking the law, just using some common sense. I do have cooking facilities, bathroom ets. Why shouldn't someone be able to enjoy a cold beer on a guided trip, on a hot day and after landing a fish of a lifetime?

 

[dougthefisher]

All I can say is next time you see someone doing something against a law you "like" just remember maybe they think like you do and they feel they can do whatever it is safely. ie driving a bike at 200 k on the highway. a good rider would have no problem with that but i would bet you would be all up in arms as they passed you. i will keep to myself what i think of anyone drinking and driving or boating.