Klob
Well-Known Member
Had this footage for years,
thought it was time to share it. Enjoy.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2wXm1n3Bwcht
thought it was time to share it. Enjoy.
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2wXm1n3Bwcht
Classic Old School fishing in CR
- Thread starter Klob
- Start date
kingblazer84
Well-Known Member
man those days are long long gone but still nice to see some tyee's are still being caught out there this year and years to come but im sure most fish caught back then were tyees .. thanks for the share great footage from back then
WOW! Great stuff.
Mike Rippingale (guided Glen Ford) is still with us. He is said to have rowed more tyees than anyone, but didn't register most of them with the Tyee Club. Head guide at Painters for many years, and taught allot of todays "old guard of rowers" how row/guide.
Norm Lee (minute 31) is now the unofficial club "historian". Norm gives talks at the CR Museum and all over town on the origins and history of the club. The guy is a treasure chest of knowledge, and has "been there and done that". If you ever get the chance to chat with him, listen closely.
I watched John "Dorky" Dawson's "Let's go Fishing" show as a kid (late 70's early 80's) and dreamed about being able to have my own boat and fish like those guys. John is still around too.
Awesome. Thanks for the memories guys.
**One thing that struck me about the old black & white footage, was the lack of outboard motors, and the freedom to play the fish all the way around the back of the boat. These days, with outboards on all the rowboats (club rules that you have to fish with the o/b in the tilted up position), you have to keep the line & fish well away from the back of the boat. Allot of fish have been lost on the tilted up motors. **
Mike Rippingale (guided Glen Ford) is still with us. He is said to have rowed more tyees than anyone, but didn't register most of them with the Tyee Club. Head guide at Painters for many years, and taught allot of todays "old guard of rowers" how row/guide.
Norm Lee (minute 31) is now the unofficial club "historian". Norm gives talks at the CR Museum and all over town on the origins and history of the club. The guy is a treasure chest of knowledge, and has "been there and done that". If you ever get the chance to chat with him, listen closely.
I watched John "Dorky" Dawson's "Let's go Fishing" show as a kid (late 70's early 80's) and dreamed about being able to have my own boat and fish like those guys. John is still around too.
Awesome. Thanks for the memories guys.
**One thing that struck me about the old black & white footage, was the lack of outboard motors, and the freedom to play the fish all the way around the back of the boat. These days, with outboards on all the rowboats (club rules that you have to fish with the o/b in the tilted up position), you have to keep the line & fish well away from the back of the boat. Allot of fish have been lost on the tilted up motors. **
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
wait what? "the guides start the argument of should you set the hook"
Have we put this one to bed?
Have we put this one to bed?
Filletandrelease
Well-Known Member
I never get tired of that clip.
Awesome stuff. Tears me up to know that these kind of salmon are a thing of the past and will likely never be seen again. Who catches 40#ers these days anymore?
I bet however, that a substantial portion of these slabs weren't Campbell River stocks but rather tyees holding there on their way elsewhere; Fraser maybe? The CR with its short reach never had the natural potential for a big spring run. Would be interesting to know the origin of these historic slabs.
I bet however, that a substantial portion of these slabs weren't Campbell River stocks but rather tyees holding there on their way elsewhere; Fraser maybe? The CR with its short reach never had the natural potential for a big spring run. Would be interesting to know the origin of these historic slabs.
Dave H
Well-Known Member
You'd lose that bet I'm afraid.
Campbell River Chinook evolved to be large fish mostly because of the large material that comprised their spawning areas plus it had the estuarine environment along with in-river habitat to support juvenile Chinook for their freshwater cycle before smolting and going to sea.
Only big fish could successfully move the large gravel/rocks/boulders in order to create a redd so over time the river "selected" for bigger fish.
And even in the glory years of Tyee fishing here the catch was only in the hundreds when the run was probably several thousand in number.
There's their origin for you, in simple terms.
Take care.
Dave H
Well-Known Member
Interesting to note how the old guides gaffed their fish and how totally played out the fish were in order to allow that.
Perhaps a result of barbed treble hooks along with multiplier reels methinks, but definitely different from today, when we mostly net the fish.
Love that old stuff and wish I'd come to Tyee fishing in the 60's when I moved here rather than so many years later in life.
I might have caught a Tyee by now too. LOL
Thanks for sharing that Klob.
Take care.
Perhaps a result of barbed treble hooks along with multiplier reels methinks, but definitely different from today, when we mostly net the fish.
Love that old stuff and wish I'd come to Tyee fishing in the 60's when I moved here rather than so many years later in life.
I might have caught a Tyee by now too. LOL
Thanks for sharing that Klob.
Take care.
Interesting, thanks for that insight! So is it the hatchery production that watered down the big-fish genes or why are there so few of these slabs left today? Even without the dam there couldn't have been a lot more spawning habitat up to the falls so I assume the loss of spawning habitat is not really a factor why the springs are smaller today.
Dave H
Well-Known Member
The hatchery definitely "watered down" the genetic pool over the years but they are making some efforts nowadays to select big males and females and "spawn" them together rather than the old style of bucket spawning.
Also, since the dam went in the river ceased recruiting gravel the Chinook could use, literally millions of dollars have been spent along with countless hours raising money for gravel replacement projects over the past couple of decades. You could check the Campbell River Gravel Replacement Committee if you'd like.
Most of these efforts have been for naught it turns out as BC Hydro seems unable to manage the flow in the Campbell well enough to prevent large gravel blow-outs like that of last November.
Also, one must not forget that in the early days of Western Mines at the head of Buttle Lake they put all their mine tailings in the lake, resulting in a slow but steady acidification of the whole system which degraded the insect populations in the Campbell that had helped support salmon, trout and steelhead for eons. No food.....no juvenile survival.
Industrial use of the estuary was intense for the better part of the 20th. century too, and that certainly didn't enhance salmon values either.
But they originally were big primarily because of their spawning habitat and the size of fish it took to be able to use it successfully.
Interesting history one way and another.
Take care.
Why the smaller fish in the Campbell? (probably a bunch of reasons, but no one knows for sure).
Bigger fish are older fish - a 5 or 6 year old Chinook has to run the gauntlet of predators, commercial fishers, sports guys and everything else out there looking to kill them for another year or two. Fewer older fish make it back.
The hatchery takes a random selection of males to fertilize the eggs of the female. Not big fish with big fish (like happens in nature). Over generations it seems to yield smaller fish. Look at the Alberni or Conuma run. Happening coast wide.
The Campbell River is the same length for spawning fish now as it was pre-dam. The fish cannot make it above Elk Falls, now or then. The dam did keep the natural gravel recruitment (gravel washing down stream) from happening. In the 70's and 80's I guess the riverbottom was mostly Volkswagon sized boulders. Limited spawing gravel. They now try to manually replace the gravel in the river, as it will inevitably wash downstream.
The rivermouth was an industrial area for years. At the Tyee Club AGM a local biologist showed areal photos of the estuary in 1970 and today (side by side). In 1970, there was nothing green there. All log booms. There was no place for the fry to hide and live, and the environment was toxic. There are also now three bridges crossing the river, and a BC hydro pump station. These have not helped the fish.
Historically, the big fish were always Campbell River fish, and the were very few Chinook (if any) that spawned in the Quinsam tributary. They go there now because that's where the hatchery is. The hatchery guys will tell you that very few of the XXL's will go up to the hatchery gate. They want to be in the bigger, deeper pools of the Campbell. The technicians, when swimming the river still see a few OMG!! big Chinook when they swim the Campbell every fall, but not as many as there used to be.
A newer theory is water temperature in the Campbell. The water comes from the base of the dam and is cold. In the USA, the dam owners have to mimick not only the seasonal water flows, but the seasonal water temperatures as well (by law). BC Hydro doesn't have to and wants to keep this swept under the rug. The cost of mixing towers in all of their dams would be billions of $$.
When the Campbell Chinook fry emerge in late Jan/Feb, the water is ice cold and sterile (no grub for them). Some data suggests that they are emerging from the gravel, and then have no food for the first month or two. Pre dam, the Jan and Feb rains would have increased the water temps, resulting in more food for the fry. The comparison between the Campbell (with the dam) and the tributary Quinsam (no dam) show a full month difference in fry emerging and water temps.
The theories are many and complicated, and I've really condensed it here. Smaller fish returning are a coast wide thing. Maybe we can figure out the problem before the "big ones" are totally a thing of the past.
Bigger fish are older fish - a 5 or 6 year old Chinook has to run the gauntlet of predators, commercial fishers, sports guys and everything else out there looking to kill them for another year or two. Fewer older fish make it back.
The hatchery takes a random selection of males to fertilize the eggs of the female. Not big fish with big fish (like happens in nature). Over generations it seems to yield smaller fish. Look at the Alberni or Conuma run. Happening coast wide.
The Campbell River is the same length for spawning fish now as it was pre-dam. The fish cannot make it above Elk Falls, now or then. The dam did keep the natural gravel recruitment (gravel washing down stream) from happening. In the 70's and 80's I guess the riverbottom was mostly Volkswagon sized boulders. Limited spawing gravel. They now try to manually replace the gravel in the river, as it will inevitably wash downstream.
The rivermouth was an industrial area for years. At the Tyee Club AGM a local biologist showed areal photos of the estuary in 1970 and today (side by side). In 1970, there was nothing green there. All log booms. There was no place for the fry to hide and live, and the environment was toxic. There are also now three bridges crossing the river, and a BC hydro pump station. These have not helped the fish.
Historically, the big fish were always Campbell River fish, and the were very few Chinook (if any) that spawned in the Quinsam tributary. They go there now because that's where the hatchery is. The hatchery guys will tell you that very few of the XXL's will go up to the hatchery gate. They want to be in the bigger, deeper pools of the Campbell. The technicians, when swimming the river still see a few OMG!! big Chinook when they swim the Campbell every fall, but not as many as there used to be.
A newer theory is water temperature in the Campbell. The water comes from the base of the dam and is cold. In the USA, the dam owners have to mimick not only the seasonal water flows, but the seasonal water temperatures as well (by law). BC Hydro doesn't have to and wants to keep this swept under the rug. The cost of mixing towers in all of their dams would be billions of $$.
When the Campbell Chinook fry emerge in late Jan/Feb, the water is ice cold and sterile (no grub for them). Some data suggests that they are emerging from the gravel, and then have no food for the first month or two. Pre dam, the Jan and Feb rains would have increased the water temps, resulting in more food for the fry. The comparison between the Campbell (with the dam) and the tributary Quinsam (no dam) show a full month difference in fry emerging and water temps.
The theories are many and complicated, and I've really condensed it here. Smaller fish returning are a coast wide thing. Maybe we can figure out the problem before the "big ones" are totally a thing of the past.
littlechucky
Crew Member
I believe there was an initiative to match the size of male and female spawners in the last few years. Can't remember where I saw this.
Here is a good read as to what they have been doing on the enhancement side on the CR mainstem.
http://www.crsalmonfoundation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CRSF12BYchinreportfinal.pdf
Here is a good read as to what they have been doing on the enhancement side on the CR mainstem.
http://www.crsalmonfoundation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/CRSF12BYchinreportfinal.pdf
Yes, there was a hatchery initiative for big males with big females. The problem was the fish were taken from the counting fence on the Quinsam, and historically the XXL's don't go there, or into the Qunsam at all.
A little bird told me the hatchery definition of a "big fish" had to be reduced in size a couple of times, cause they were not getting any. For 2016, a hatchery "BIG ONE" was 24 or 25lbs, probably 4 years old fish, and nowhere near what was on that awesome film.
A little bird told me the hatchery definition of a "big fish" had to be reduced in size a couple of times, cause they were not getting any. For 2016, a hatchery "BIG ONE" was 24 or 25lbs, probably 4 years old fish, and nowhere near what was on that awesome film.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
So its kinda sad but locally a lot of the habit for tyee fishing has been lost. In the early 1900's 4 areas that were know that constantly produced 40 to 60 pound chinook with the odd one up to 80 pounds. The skagit river, Port Alberni, Seymour river (vancouver) and Campbell river. Since then all most all thoes rivers were dammed and the size of chinook reduced. Terminal fisheries in all thoes locations played a big role in lowering the chinook size and a lot of the Terminal commercial fisheries occurred in like 1920.
As time has progressed rivers know with thoes size of chinook were found further north that were more untouched by humans. like rivers inlet and kenai river in alaska.
also something to note
""One thing I want to be clear about when it comes to fish size," Pawluk said, "what we are seeing around the state and in the Kenai River isn't that size at age is decreasing, it's that age of maturity has decreased. A higher proportion of chinook are coming back after spending only one to three years (in the) ocean, compared to three to five years.":
https://www.adn.com/fishing/article...d-largest-king-salmon-ever-caught/2016/05/17/
