"Centre pin" terminology

[sly_karma]

I've been reading a bit about steelhead fishing of late after having a taste when I was in Smither a couple weeks ago. There's lots of mention online about centre pin reels, that term appears to be specifically applied to reels for steelhead. But physically the reel appears to be from the same family as fly reels and 'knuckle buster' salmon reels. Surely they are all centre pin styles, with variations in size and heft based on the species they're intended for.

A steelhead centrepin reel looks like it's midway in size between a fly reel and a salmon 'mooching' reel. (Another question there of course - I suspect mooching reels were just ordinary single action reels that happened to work with the mooching technique that developed on the BC coast decades ago). Could a mooching reel with a drag release switch be made to work for steelhead drift fishing? That would describe most of the popular salmon reels out there now, like the Daiwa M-One, Shimano GT and the Islander MR2.

 

[ChilliSpoons]

Your Mooching reel couldn't spin freely like a centrepin. When float fishing you need your presentation drifting downstream at the same speed as the current. What your looking for is a 100% drag free drift. Casting requires a friction free spin as well. If you lay a centrepin reel on the counter and give it a spin you should expect to see the reel to spin freely for at least a minute.

Once a fish is hooked on a centrepin the only drag applied is by palming the reel. Imagine fighting a spring in the chuck on your islander with the drag completely backed off, tons of fun.

 

[sly_karma]

So say with an MR2, they have a drag release switch. Is there still some drag there even with the lever released?

 

[UkeeDreamin]

I would offer that fly reels and mooching reels are more similar to each other than either is to centre pin reels, with mooching reels being MUCH heavier so they don't warp when spooled with 500 yards of mono. While you could use a mooching reel with free spool it would be analogous to using a screwdriver handle to hammer nails - can you do it, yes, is it the best tool for the job, far from it.

As was explained earlier the bushing or bearing system in a centre pin reel, as well as the very accurate machining, is set up to allow near infinite spin which enables the casting and free spooling technique for maximum effectiveness - casting distance and accuracy and, most importantly, drag free drift and feel as you fish.

You also want to balance your gear as a light reel on heavy rod or heavy reel on a light rod will be out of balance and won't be fun to cast and fish with. As you can imagine, a heavy mooching reel won't balance well on most light centre pin rods. Most guys match the size centre pin they use to their quarry - with smaller reels meant to be spooled with lighter line and matched with lighter rods for small streams and smaller steelhead, then moving up to gear for moderate rivers with avg steelhead and coho to reels and rods for big rivers and big steelhead and even chinook. Even the largest, heaviest centre pin reel is light compared to a mooching reel.

I'd suggest you go with someone experienced and borrow gear for a casting and drifting lesson prior to investing. A few casts and drifts and you should quickly realize why you want the proper gear and why trying to drift fish on a river with a mooching reel won't be the most rewarding experience.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[SteelyDan]

You probably could use a mooching reel with drag released for drift fishing but you might find it has too much resistance.

I tried to upload some pics from my phone for reference but the files are too big. Edit. Got one to work. This is a milner kingfisher berring model. Extremely light

 

[finaddict]

Be very careful about getting into CP river fishing. Once you start, you may never use your level winds for fishing floats again. They are addictive and so much more fun to play fish on. One must also remember that you will be graduating into a more elitist group. Now having graduated form coffee grinders to level winds you will be graduating to a new level where you can look at both levels and coffee grinders with disdain and downright disgust. You still have a ways to go though as the elitist fly chuckers will look down their nose at you and the UBER elitist spey feathers chuckers will see you as something juuuuust this side of neanderthal. .

In order to be considered the ultimate sports angler you will be required to trade in your pick up truck for a brand new Range Rover with suction cup spey rod holders on the hood, learn to smoke a pipe whilst wearing a brand new Tilley, wearing your Simms ultratech rain jacket over your Simms Goretex waders and tossing a GLoomis NRX 18010/11-4 with a 700 grain Skagit shooting head.............

Then again, you probably would be better off to try a center pin and see if you like it and ignore all the BS I just wrote.....heh heh heh

 

[ChilliSpoons]

I agree with finddict on how fishing with a centrepin has turned into a hipster thing. All Simms all the time, from waders to jacket to hat to hip pack to socks to gloves to base layers to Lululemons.

I still like to pull out my old Grice & Young Avon Royal Supreme reel when chasing Coho. You don't need to spend $600 on a Milner reel but you do want quality. My old Grice & Young reels sold for $35 in the 60's but now sell for $250-350. If your lucky enough an Avon can occasionally be found for around $100.

My father in-law used to fish with Avons as a mooching reel around Pender Harbor. The reels had a very minimal drag system and held less than 180 yards of 20 lb mono. Although those reels were well made they didn't fair well over time from exposure to the salt. There's still a few reels sitting in a drawer in his shop but the spindles that the line wraps around are pretty corroded.

I have a few different reels in my collection but I like the look and feel of some of my older reels

 

[Sharphooks]

Back in the early 80's there was a large Fraser River tributary that had a good run of steelhead. They were basically a summerrun fish and reacted to gear in the same aggressive way you would expect from a summer fish. They were also large---high teen and low 20 fish were not uncommon. Back in those days I fished for them almost exclusively with dry flies because I never felt like it was much of a disadvantage---they would come up through 10 feet of water to hammer a float; why not a dry fly?

So I started buying every Hardy Silex I could get my hands on. Alot of the CP guys were starting to sell their reels because they saw the writing on the wall for gear fishing, especially with bait. They knew it was a matter of time before there would be a bait ban (and of course, they were right)

So I built up a sizeable collection of Hardy Super Silexes as the price dropped. What did I do with all these Centre Pin reels? I lobbed a dry fly out into the river, clicked the free spool, and would feed huge amounts of line out as the fly made its way downstream.

Basically, it was a cheater's way to achieve the ultimate drag-free drift. The only problem was if there was a guy fishing 100 meters downstream, I could be hooking fish out in front of where he was standing, a guaranteed way to **** him off.

So I started using that method up on the Skeena. Back in thosde days nobody fished the Skeena so I had huge runs to myself.

One day I had a mid-20 buck boil at my fly five times before he finally got stuck. I needed heart-attack pills the boils were so large. On the fifth attempt, he launched himself into the air about a meter BELOW my fly and came down on top of it, hooking himself in the nostril. I estimate all this took place with over 100 meters of line out on the top of the water. That drag-free drift was too much for him to resist

That was also a reverse snobbery gambit---reclaiming a reel favored by gear slingers and using it in a bit more elegant way to go out and torment steel.

Fly guys would see my set up and immediately presume I was a "puker" (their terminology for a gear guy).

I never advertised that technique and let them think whatever they wanted to -- a few guys free-drifting flies on centre pins like that all in the same hole would lead to a fist-fight in short order.

Some of you might be familiar with a MacDonald centre pin?

Here's a nice slab of a buck caught free drifting a fly on a centre pin----you can see why fly guys thought I was a "puker"... I build my own rods and the long butt section is perfect for holding the rod and hitting the free-spool clicker to let all that line out




Here's another pic of a centre pin put to good use on a river---this is a 3 3/4" Hardy Longstone




And despite knowing I'll get flamed for "torturing" steelhead I can't forget this pic of a stunner of a specimen I hooked using my peach of a 4" Hardy Super Silex (stamped "H" for Hidinium)

I got lucky and grabbed it when the Granville Island museum decided to sell all its inventory--the Supers are the King of drag-free drift!

 

[Aces]

Back in the early 80's there was a large Fraser River tributary that had a good run of steelhead. They were basically a summerrun fish and reacted to gear in the same aggressive way you would expect from a summer fish. They were also large---high teen and low 20 fish were not uncommon. Back in those days I fished for them almost exclusively with dry flies because I never felt like it was much of a disadvantage---they would come up through 10 feet of water to hammer a float; why not a dry fly?

So I started buying every Hardy Silex I could get my hands on. Alot of the CP guys were starting to sell their reels because they saw the writing on the wall for gear fishing, especially with bait. They knew it was a matter of time before there would be a bait ban (and of course, they were right)

So I built up a sizeable collection of Hardy Super Silexes as the price dropped. What did I do with all these Centre Pin reels? I lobbed a dry fly out into the river, clicked the free spool, and would feed huge amounts of line out as the fly made its way downstream.

Basically, it was a cheater's way to achieve the ultimate drag-free drift. The only problem was if there was a guy fishing 100 meters downstream, I could be hooking fish out in front of where he was standing, a guaranteed way to **** him off.

So I started using that method up on the Skeena. Back in thosde days nobody fished the Skeena so I had huge runs to myself.

One day I had a mid-20 buck boil at my fly five times before he finally got stuck. I needed heart-attack pills the boils were so large. On the fifth attempt, he launched himself into the air about a meter BELOW my fly and came down on top of it, hooking himself in the nostril. I estimate all this took place with over 100 meters of line out on the top of the water. That drag-free drift was too much for him to resist

That was also a reverse snobbery gambit---reclaiming a reel favored by gear slingers and using it in a bit more elegant way to go out and torment steel.

Fly guys would see my set up and immediately presume I was a "puker" (their terminology for a gear guy).

I never advertised that technique and let them think whatever they wanted to -- a few guys free-drifting flies on centre pins like that all in the same hole would lead to a fist-fight in short order.

Some of you might be familiar with a MacDonald centre pin?

Here's a nice slab of a buck caught free drifting a fly on a centre pin----you can see why fly guys thought I was a "puker"... I build my own rods and the long butt section is perfect for holding the rod and hitting the free-spool clicker to let all that line out




Here's another pic of a centre pin put to good use on a river---this is a 3 3/4" Hardy Longstone




And despite knowing I'll get flamed for "torturing" steelhead I can't forget this pic of a stunner of a specimen I hooked using my peach of a 4" Hardy Super Silex (stamped "H" for Hidinium)

I got lucky and grabbed it when the Granville Island museum decided to sell all its inventory--the Supers are the King of drag-free drift!

I love that cork setup on the bottom rod

 

[Kildonan]

I loved my old Hardy Silex, still have it but don't steelhead fish anymore. Too many guys out there for this guy. lol

I own a level wind too, and it worked just fine but doing battle with the Silex... Man, it was special.

Once in a while I pull that silex out, give it a few spins and think about the old days. Those were good times when I used that rig.

 

[sly_karma]

Thanks for all the responses. All useful info to this transplanted Aussie.