BC FN granted sole access to Hunt Japser National Park

Discussion in 'General Open Forum' started by IronNoggin, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    Quite the debate on this matter on the Alberta Hunting Forum...

    Apparently this was negotiated behind closed doors, zero consultation involved with anyone but the FN band involved.

    From the Alberta site:

    "Cull hunt along the Celestine Lake road and Snaring will occur from Oct 6-13
    -the Simpcw FN will be participating. From my quick research they mainly reside in the area of BC from Valemount to Barriere. They are one of many FN that used the Jasper area, historically
    -no other FN groups have been invited to partake
    -the hunt is done in the spirit of reconciliation as a joint effort from Parks Canada, the Federal Government, and the Simpcw FN
    -they have set quotas on cull harvest at 3 elk, 3 whitetail, 3 sheep, and one mule deer (per hunter). No information on sex or age of animals was listed."


    So now the Fed's have chosen to play the reverse racism card and grant this FN access to animals inside of a National Park.
    And they are doing so as quietly as possible.

    Dunno about you, but IMO this SUCKS ROYALLY!! :eek:

    Ticked,
    Nog
     
    BCRingo and I Love Haida Gwaii like this.
  2. Samnjoe

    Samnjoe Active Member

    Is that 10 animals per hunter?
    Pure bullshit.
    I was born here.
    That makes me a native.
    When do I get my special hunt?
     
    Corey_lax likes this.
  3. Reel Time

    Reel Time Active Member

    LOL, its not even hunting, these animals in the National Parks are so tame now to human contact, they will come right up to the gun and have a sniff while getting their brains blown out at close range. Once a National Park, no hunting should ever take place! gross misconduct
     
    Corey_lax likes this.
  4. trophywife

    trophywife Well-Known Member

    wtf is the spirit of reconciliation? when are we done being guilty (as Canadians)? when are we all going to live under common law? this crap needs to end.
     
    Filletandrelease and fishin solo like this.
  5. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

  6. RODNREEL

    RODNREEL Active Member

    That's not that much meat for one hunter it's only 20 back straps and a shit load of wolf bait. :mad:
     
  7. Dogbreath

    Dogbreath Well-Known Member

    The Camel's nose is in the tent......
     
    IronNoggin likes this.
  8. BCRingo

    BCRingo Active Member

    "“Parks Canada is supporting the Simpcw First Nation to conduct traditional harvest activities on their traditionally used lands,” says Young."

    This is pure BS. From a legal standpoint, this is baseless. Need someone to start a petition on change.org and then send letters to our MPs to stop this nonesense. This is nothing but raping the nationally- owned resources in protected areas. We have all paid through our tax $$ to protect those parks and their resources. Get this in front of your MPs before it becomes a new norm.

    "The Government of Canada is committed to reconciliation and nation-to-nation, Inuit-Crown, and government-to-government relationships with Indigenous Peoples, based on a recognition of rights, respect, co-operation, and partnership,”

    As s tax payer, we all have rights in this. 10 kills/person is a prime example of the feds NOT respecting other Canadians rights.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  9. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    This is NOT about herd management, quality of hunt or even about getting meat.
    This IS about Aboriginal rights to access and use National Parks lands.
    It is also following in the bootprints of establishing precedence to do so (there are a couple of Northern Parks that allow Inuit hunting, and actually Banf has seen a hunt conducted previously).

    This little high-fence shoot of tame animals is the tip of the iceberg for what our government is in the works of silently doing under our noses.

    "More than twenty different First Nations, Non-Treaty First Nations, and Métis communities from both Alberta and British Columbia, participate in the Jasper Indigenous Forum."

    According to Jasper park staff, 6 or 8 of those groups are waiting in the wings for their chance to get in on the destruction of tame park critters.

    All in the name of reconciliation... [​IMG]

    Pissed,
    Nog
     
    I Love Haida Gwaii likes this.
  10. SpringFever552

    SpringFever552 Well-Known Member

  11. UkeeDreamin

    UkeeDreamin Well-Known Member

    So if I understand the arguments correctly, this is precedent setting except for the fact there are a number of examples of how the precedent has already been set; zero consultation w/ affected interested parties is a bad thing, so I have to assume everyone feels that the termination of traditional hunting by FNs in the National Parks in the first place, which was implemented with no consultation of affected FNs, was wrong; and the animals likely to be impacted in the Park are tame, which is counter to Parks Canada's mission statement to keep wildlife wild and to manage for naturally functioning ecosystems?

    Makes perfect, logical sense why folks are so irate!

    Cheers!


    Ukee
     
  12. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    Well if anyone is allowed to hunt in the park, assuming it's been deemed hunting is sustainable,or needed to cull the herds, then frankly FN should get priority.
     
  13. RODNREEL

    RODNREEL Active Member

    Why ???
     
  14. Big Green Machine

    Big Green Machine Well-Known Member

    Papa Trudeau tried that, now we have thousands of court cases that you and I have to pay for.
     
  15. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    JuHeeZuz...

    "“There’s no reason why we can’t take all the national parks and provincial parks that exist across the country and reintroduce Indigenous people into those lands, with their rights recognized, and give them responsibility in the management and operation of those protected areas,”"

    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-out-indigenous-people-are-forging-a-comeback

    A major part of reconciliation is accepting that when we celebrate Canada 200, Algonquin people may again be living in Algonquin Park, and that Stanley Park and the turquoise waters of Moraine Lake in Banff National Park may be dotted with First Nations homes and businesses. Wilderness may be a sacred concept to Canadians, but it’s one that must be sacrificed if reconciliation is to have meaning.

    https://thewalrus.ca/canadas-national-parks-are-colonial-crime-scenes/

    [​IMG]

    We're HOOPED! o_O
    Nog
     
  16. BCRingo

    BCRingo Active Member

    "As an ongoing part of this reconciliation, the government acknowledges the traumas of the residential school system. But it still celebrates other crimes—specifically, a parks system that has robbed and impoverished Indigenous peoples."

    WTF is he talking 'bout?
    Enforcing laws that protect animals and plants and other resources isn't a crime. Spending billions of public $$$ on nonesense stuff is.
    This is the beginning of an end if we don't push back. Those who robbed the impoverished Indigenous people have strong representation in Ottawa and are hard at work to ensure that all natural resources of this country are milked to bone and converted to corporate $$. Average Canadian shouldn't be fuc..ed by this nonesense. These are extremely radical ideas that will neither help the FNs nor the other citizens of this country.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  17. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    A fellow on another site did some digging on this issue.
    What he discovered is eye opening to say the least:

    "I can find no record or claim that members of the Simpcw band were forcibly removed from Jasper National Park lands.

    The closest area where I can find claims of forced removal are from Tete Jaune Cache - well over 100 km west of the area they're currently hunting in JNP.

    The Simpcw were not a part of the numbered treaties in the Jasper area, and so were not involved when the Federal Government extinguished aboriginal title on national park land over 100 years ago. Most claims of 'forced removal' stem from the extinguishing of treaty title - clearly this was not the case with the Simpcw.

    The Stimcw have been one of the over 20 First Nations, Non-Treaty Nations, and Metis communities that participate in the long-standing Jasper Indigenous Forum. All of these 20+ entities have historical associations with Jasper National Park. Obviously, these associations overlap with each other in traditional land uses. Jasper runs almost all park issues by this forum to see if there are any concerns - as they are required to do by federal mandate.

    A few years ago, with representation of the Jasper Aboriginal Forum, JNP commissioned a new Raven Totem, with Haida artists. Late in the process, the Simpcw objected, Chief Matthew said the Simpcw didn't have an issue with the Haida creating the pole, but with Parks Canada and the federal government for ignoring the Simpcw and not recognizing the cultural values their people offer the land. “To deny our presence is a misrepresentation of history." Jasper National Park Superintendent Greg Fenton said he was surprised by the announcement, as the Simpcw First Nation participated in the Aboriginal Forum and were fully aware of the Raven totem announcements during the past year. The Simpcw however, didn't feel that the Aboriginal Forum (with all the other bands) was the correct avenue, and that negotiations should have been 'nation to nation' with them alone.

    I raise this event to illustrate that the Simpcw have been very persistent in establishing their claims as the premier indigenous claims to JNP lands. We can expect other bands to make the same claims and expect the same 'rights', or they risk losing their spot!
    "

    And so as it turns out, this aboriginal group is not even from the area, has superseded those who were in gaining access to the National Park, and did so by "negotiating nation to nation" in secret with the Trudeau government.

    I mean WTF??? [​IMG]

    I'll just bet that the aboriginals that did live there once are now chomping at the proverbial bit... [​IMG]

    Nog
     
  18. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

  19. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    As usual, CBC (and likely the band involved) are making "facts" up as they go along.

    Beyond the band's own website, there are NO records or claim that members of the Simpcw band were forcibly removed from Jasper National Park lands. Ever.

    The closest area where such claims of forced removal can be verified are from Tete Jaune Cache - well west of the area this hunt occurred in.

    The Simpcw were not a part of the numbered treaties in the Jasper area, and so were not involved when the Federal Government extinguished aboriginal title on national park land over 100 years ago. Most claims of 'forced removal' stem from the extinguishing of treaty title - clearly this was not the case with the Simpcw.

    On the other hand, there ARE a good handful of aboriginal groups that have documented occupancy (and removal) of the area in question. This group has decidedly much more history in the area, and are now lining up to be "NEXT".

    The band in question simply had a great lawyer who initiated "nation to nation" discussions with Chief Flapping Lips the instant he got into power.

    [​IMG]

    Apparently this has created something of a pissing match among the balance of the bands sitting on the Jasper Park Aboriginal Forum. Now however that PRECEDENCE has been established, the pissing match switches to who gets in next, and in what order the others follow. Note: There are TWENTY Aboriginal Organizations (bands) represented on the afore mentioned Forum...

    This is a prelude to not only hunting, but direct and ongoing occupation of lands contained within ALL Canadian National Parks.

    Reconciliation... [​IMG]


    Nog
     
  20. agentaqua

    agentaqua Well-Known Member

    This specific claim of yours is totally unsupported, Nog. Most National parks and military bases used expropriation and forcible removal of both aboriginals and settler families during their development. Examples include Gagetown, Ipperwash, Suffield, and Trenton Military bases; along with Banff, Fundy, Kouchibouguac, and Jasper National Parks. See:
    http://www.fitzhugh.ca/simpcw-first-nation-commemorate-forced-removal-100-years-ago/
    http://www.canada.com/travel/parks+canada+admits+pain+expropriations/947034/story.html
    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...-out-indigenous-people-are-forging-a-comeback
    http://www.georgewright.org/272langdon.pdf
    http://www.lawnow.org/expropriating-land/
    http://aboriginal.findlaw.ca/article/how-does-land-expropriation-work/
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017

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