BC Ferries raising rates April 1

[Sotally Tober]

No, it's not an early April Fool's joke. Rate increase announced, but reservation fee to be lowered.

http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/b...hicle-fares-on-major-routes-april-1-1.3328679

 

[ziggy]

I still think reservations should be free for all BC residents. Given we subsidize the ferries to the tune of over 100 million, we should receive a small perk!

In the current configuration we as taxpayers on the major routes,are paying more than the visitors. We are subsidising, plus paying the same fare as them.

 

[sly_karma]

Sure, whatever, the system has to be paid for somehow. You might get a bit annoyed at the long toll booth lineups as attendants have to see proof of BC residency for everyone planning to board.

 

[finaddict]

I still think reservations should be free for all BC residents. Given we subsidize the ferries to the tune of over 100 million, we should receive a small perk!

In the current configuration we as taxpayers on the major routes,are paying more than the visitors. We are subsidising, plus paying the same fare as them.

While that is true, it is also true for the million or so BC Residents who will never use the ferry. Be careful what you ask for as far as subsidizing is concerned, you just get what you ask for ;-)

 

[ziggy]

The same argument could be used for BC bridges, when's the last time their was a toll on the Lions gate bridge? Ever pay to use the Massey tunnel? Now that just a few Lower Mainland examples, there are free inland ferries not to mention many bridges and highways that millions from the Lower Mainland and Island will never use. I don't begrudge them their roads or bridges, it's all part of being a past of a greater whole.
I guess I don't get your point? How is allowing taxpaying residents the perk of waiving a reservation fee (even those millions you claim, who have yet to use a ferry, but may someday)yet still pay full price an unfair subsidy? I mean shouldn't the masses be more concerned about sudsidizing out of Province travelers who pay no taxes to subsidize the ferry yet pay the same fare as those who do?

You do know that all the minor routes have discounts right(Coastal Experience cards)? Only the three major routes pay the full fare

 

[sly_karma]

Surely the Coastal Experience card is a perk for locals. Visitors wouldn't use it enough to bother with it, so it's essentially a benefit not available to them.

 

[TheBigGuy]

As the toll on bridges are assessed on your license I assume out of province travelers pay nothing. Ferries and our parks should be treated like our schools and hospitals. BC residents should pay less, and out of province visitors should pay a premium. As BC taxpayers we already pay far more than our fair share through our taxes to support our infrastructure.

 

[ziggy]

Surely the Coastal Experience card is a perk for locals. Visitors wouldn't use it enough to bother with it, so it's essentially a benefit not available to them.

Well not exactly just locals unfortunately, i think you'll find a anyone with a summer house on the Gulf Islands or Sunshine Coast has a discount fare card. Are they the locals the card was designed for? I'd say no! In many cases we are subsidising the travel of people from one multi million dollar home to another. I don't believe this was ever the intent.

This is another reason why i suggest the major routes simply waive the reservation fee for all BC Residents as opposed to giving Vancouver Island residents a discount fare card.

 

[bigbruce]

Comparing the interior ferries to the coastal ferries isn't quite fair. The interior ferries are free because they replaced the roads that existed before the lakes behind BC Hydro's dams were created. Before those dams were built, people could use roads (free) that were flooded by the dams. The tolls on the Lions Gate, Second Narrows, Massey Tunnel and Coquihalla Highway were removed when the capital cost of those crossings was recovered. Presumably tolls on the Port Mann and Golden Ears will eventually disappear as well, again, once the capital costs have been recovered.

 

[Clint r]

I'd agree if our provincial legislature was on the mainland. Being it's on the island, ferries should be free so citizens of this province can visit their own parliament buildings without paying a "toll". There's plenty of other reasons for there to be no charge but that's the biggest one for me.

There was a time when the powers that be decided to charge a toll to cross the arrow lake at Edgewood but public outcry and plenty of resistance to the idea put the brakes on that pretty quickly. I think it was the logging companies that won the day back then. Maybe someone on here lived there at the time and can chime in.

 

[ziggy]

Comparing the interior ferries to the coastal ferries isn't quite fair. The interior ferries are free because they replaced the roads that existed before the lakes behind BC Hydro's dams were created. Before those dams were built, people could use roads (free) that were flooded by the dams. The tolls on the Lions Gate, Second Narrows, Massey Tunnel and Coquihalla Highway were removed when the capital cost of those crossings was recovered. Presumably tolls on the Port Mann and Golden Ears will eventually disappear as well, again, once the capital costs have been recovered.

The capital cost of any bridge or tunnel or highway is but a small portion of its expense. Annual maintenance can exceed the Capital cost many times over during its lifespan.
I also think some inland ferries co exist with roads. My understanding is they shorten the route, but aren't the sole route?

 

[Clint r]

Yep. Edgewoods this side and about a 10 minute drive to the ferry and 15 minutes across if you wanted to go to Fauqier(?). The other way is via lumby, Vernon-Hwy 1 in Sicamous and on to Revelstoke then south. Never done the loop all at once but do it in two stages in the summer. A good 8 hrs of road time and two ferry rides because there's another at Galena bay south of Revi. Some of the nicest scenery in the province and Hydro built a bunch of new launches up and down the lake a couple years ago.

 

[sly_karma]

Wouldn't be that hard to get rid of those pesky interior ferries that seem to drive island residents nuts. Replace them with bridges!

Well not exactly just locals unfortunately, i think you'll find a anyone with a summer house on the Gulf Islands or Sunshine Coast has a discount fare card. Are they the locals the card was designed for? I'd say no! In many cases we are subsidising the travel of people from one multi million dollar home to another. I don't believe this was ever the intent.

This is another reason why i suggest the major routes simply waive the reservation fee for all BC Residents as opposed to giving Vancouver Island residents a discount fare card.

So the Gulf Islands and Sunshine Coast are just for the rich? You're drawing some class conclusions that don't ring true. Victoria real estate pricing has put loads of people into the million dollar homeowner club there too. We have a place on the sunshine coast but don't bother with a discount card because we only go 2-3 times a year.

The question you should be asking as this election comes up isn't just about ferries, it's threefold: what happened to WAC Bennet's legacy of cheap public ferries, cheap publicly owned rail transport and cheap publicly owned power generation/distribution? His political descendants the BC Liberals have given it all away (Hydro still publicly owned on paper, but so deep in debt that really the banks own it).

 

[AlK]

And how many millions of dollars is Hydro and ICBC paying in dividends? and why? Too bad we haven't got a younger version of "Wacky" around.

 

[ziggy]

Class conclusions? Really? Where did I say the Coast or Gulf Islands were just for the rich? Your words, not mine! I was born on the Sunshine Coast, I'm a pretty sure I and the people i grew up with were never accused of being rich! Then again we had a home there not a summer home and frankly back in those days, even summer folk weren't all rich. Some were, more are now.The old summer cabins where I grew up are gone, replaced by what the locals refer to as West Van specials
I did say that the people using those ferries and the discount cards, are not just locals which you confirmed using your own situation. While you chose not to get a discount card because you go up to your place up there "2-3 times a year", you could and many do, especially those who go up more often.

 

[finaddict]

The same argument could be used for BC bridges, when's the last time their was a toll on the Lions gate bridge? Ever pay to use the Massey tunnel? Now that just a few Lower Mainland examples, there are free inland ferries not to mention many bridges and highways that millions from the Lower Mainland and Island will never use. I don't begrudge them their roads or bridges, it's all part of being a past of a greater whole.
I guess I don't get your point?

You're right, you didn't get my point, but that may be because I was not explaining it very well. ;-) I was thinking more along the lines of a government agreeing that we shouldn't subsidize the bridges and tunnels and they suddenly declare a toll on everything. ;-)

How is allowing taxpaying residents the perk of waiving a reservation fee (even those millions you claim, who have yet to use a ferry, but may someday)yet still pay full price an unfair subsidy? I mean shouldn't the masses be more concerned about sudsidizing out of Province travelers who pay no taxes to subsidize the ferry yet pay the same fare as those who do?

I agree 100%. There has always been a discrimination against the user groups who travel only on the 3 main routes. BCF only makes money on these 3 runs and they use these cash cows to support their service to the gulf islands, Bowen, Quadra Cortez, and all of the other routes up and down the coast. Is that fair? not a chance. And in my opinion, all of the runs need to be break even at best. In order to do that they actually need to cut service on most routes and certainly on all of the small island routes. You are also correct that tourists get an unreasonable subsidy. My biggest curiousity is how the Washington state ferries are able to do so much with so much less bureaucracy and overhead. BCF seems to be so much of an overpriced dinosaur compared to the utilitarian approach of transportation that Washington ferries seem to prescribe to.

You do know that all the minor routes have discounts right(Coastal Experience cards)? Only the three major routes pay the full fare

Oh yeah, well aware and it frosts me to no end to think that some users are considered more valuable travelers on the BCF that those of us who are the only ones who actually support the entire system by only using the big 3 routes.

 

[sly_karma]

Class conclusions? Really? Where did I say the Coast or Gulf Islands were just for the rich? Your words, not mine! I was born on the Sunshine Coast, I'm a pretty sure I and the people i grew up with were never accused of being rich! Then again we had a home there not a summer home and frankly back in those days, even summer folk weren't all rich. Some were, more are now.The old summer cabins where I grew up are gone, replaced by what the locals refer to as West Van specials
I did say that the people using those ferries and the discount cards, are not just locals which you confirmed using your own situation. While you chose not to get a discount card because you go up to your place up there "2-3 times a year", you could and many do, especially those who go up more often.

Sorry Ziggy, reread my post and it's a mess. Dunno what I was thinking but didn't intend to offend or annoy.

 

[ziggy]

No need to apologise, no offense taken.

 

[Mike_R]

Comparing the interior ferries to the coastal ferries isn't quite fair. The interior ferries are free because they replaced the roads that existed before the lakes behind BC Hydro's dams were created. Before those dams were built, people could use roads (free) that were flooded by the dams. The tolls on the Lions Gate, Second Narrows, Massey Tunnel and Coquihalla Highway were removed when the capital cost of those crossings was recovered. Presumably tolls on the Port Mann and Golden Ears will eventually disappear as well, again, once the capital costs have been recovered.

Some of the ferries on the coast used to be run by MOT and I believe they were free (correct me if I am wrong). Then they were taken over by BC ferries in the mid 80's.

 

[Rockfish]

http://www.timescolonist.com/opinio...make-ferry-fares-an-election-issue-1.12726358