Anybody use crimps for Salmon leaders?

[RiverBoy]

An acquantice of mine gave me a salmon leader hootchie setup a long while ago which he finished with a nice crimped loop. He uses fluro and he swears that the loop is plenty strong. He didn't have chafe gear in the loop. i caught several spring here in CR with the leader and then lent it to my brother in law, who promptly lost it, so I have no idea how it was lost, if it broke at loop or what have you. ( he is a bit of a potato so anything is possible )

I also use fluro, and I generally just use a swivel and a uni knot, but I am having trouble getting an accurate leader length with a uni as it slides tight. ( guys who use fluro know how annoying this crap is to tie )
Anyways, thoughts? pros? Cons? I have no idea about crimp size or anything. All I know is that the crimp pliers were purchased at Redden Net in Campbell River for about $100. I inquired with Tim at Redden and he showed me a couple pairs of pliers but also stated the crimps would need to be stainless and it might not be worth it. I would just call the guy who gave me the leader but he moved and don't have new ph#
Anyways winter sucks and I'm bored and looking for something to do.
Cheers as always
RiverBoy

 

[Sr SQ]

I use aluminium crimps on anything heavier than 50#
I find up to 50# is easy to tie and much less fiddling around.

 

[Fixit]

I use crimps for all my Hali gear, last time i ordered I got crimps for 40lb linetoo .. I have yes to use them, but love them for heavy line

 

[Franko Manini]

I dont use them but now I'm very interested. I HATE tying flouro.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Aluminum are the best crimps to use on flouro or mono. Tying flouro in fifty lbs and up is definitely a pain. The only knot I can remember failing on me in ages was a flouro knot. Flouro knots have to be perfectly tied and will stress more rapidly than the same knot tied in mono. Crimping might not be a bad idea for flouro as it's very finicky to tie. Watch some Youtube videos on using crimps for flouro theres lots of them to watch. If your going to use crimps it has to be done right. If you've already got a good pair of crimping pliers your mostly invested already. All you need is the right size aluminum crimps. Take your leader with you to get the proper size crimps at a good tackle store.

 

[northvancb]

I make my own downrigger releases using 70lb mono and aluminum crimps. A great place to pick up the crimps is Pacific Net and Twine in Steveston. They have them in almost every size. It's also an awesome shop - if you haven't checked it out already I highly recommend you do as it's well worth the trip.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I make my own lanyards for release clips as well. I use 300 lb mono for that. The heavier the better for that because in a tangle it easily comes undone and does not get all twisted and mangled up. Yes, PNT in Steveston has a great selection of crimps.

 

[RiverBoy]

Thanks for the Reply guys. TBG that is a good idea simply bringing in my fluro leader and matching up the crimp size. I generally use 40 fluro for my leader tie ups. I was using a knot (name escapes me, you end up with a loop for a tag which you then trim) is supposed to be the " best knot for Fluoro" well after four knot break offs in Nootka I was so rattled I almost swore off Fluoro until a buddy showed me the uni knot. Fairly simple to tie but like I stated above, as the knot starts to slide tight I was losing my desired leader length. I'll try getting some crimps and start playing around. Thanks!

 

[TheBigGuy]

A good tip when tying flouro is to coat your lips in lip balm then give the knot a good coating of saliva and the balm before pulling it tight. It is the friction when pulling the knot tight that heats and weakens the knot a lot of times.

You may have a hard time finding crimps that small at a commercial fishing store, they have a great selection but is geared more towards the heavy test sizes. You can easily and cheaply get them over the internet if you have to. Click on the chart below to see the Jinkai line dia to crimp sizes. Other lines will have different dia, but it will get you in the ballpark. You want to buy aluminum oval crimps.

 

[oguard]

I crimp my leaders for Hoochies and spoons. Works great, I just use the aluminum ones. I got all my stuff at PNT in Steveston. I think the crimp pliers were about $100 and I got enough crimps to last me a lifetime for $50. I like how you can get exact lengths.

Mike

 

[TheBigGuy]

If you are not worried about the knot breaking like with flouro (if using mono), a great knot to use for exact lengths is the San Diego Jam Knot. It tests as one of the best knots for strength with mono. Unlike a lot of knots you can tie a leader with it to an exact length. Try it out you will see what I mean.

The SDJK did fail on me with flouro, which never happens when tied properly in mono. Tying knots in flouro is just such a crap shoot, I may give crimping a go myself with flouro on my hoochies. I usually use 50 lb test and it is so hard to feel confident in any knot for reliability with flouro.

 

[RiverBoy]

If you are not worried about the knot breaking like with flouro (if using mono), a great knot to use for exact lengths is the San Diego Jam Knot. It tests as one of the best knots for strength with mono. Unlike a lot of knots you can tie a leader with it to an exact length. Try it out you will see what I mean.

The SDJK did fail on me with flouro, which never happens when tied properly in mono. Tying knots in flouro is just such a crap shoot, I may give crimping a go myself with flouro on my hoochies. I usually use 50 lb test and it is so hard to feel confident in any knot for reliability with flouro.

This is the knot I was referring to earlier. Hot, hot garbage. Too much room for error.

 

[RiverBoy]

Note the ugly ugly knot created up against the hook eye ( or swivel ) at the end of the video. First time I tied it I thought," this can't be right". Every time it turned out the same. no matter what you do it looks like crap. Then I tested it. Break after break after break. I dunno. Maybe just me. Then again, the guy has trouble with it in his own video.

 

[CBsqrd]

I've stopped using a swivel on my hoochie leaders and a firm believer in that you don't need them - hoochies don't have their own action and there is a swivel on the flasher end anyway. The best knot I've found is a Tarpon Loop Knot. It is both easy to tie in both heavy (and regular) leaders and you can get it to exactly the length desired. The second double overhand determines where the knot will end up. I haven't had one fail on me yet (touch wood...).

For a "normal" connection to a swivel or non-snelled hook, I agree with TBG, the San Diego Jam Knot is a great one to use and always seems to come out at or very near the top of "strongest knot" tests. Takes a bit of practice at first, but it is easy to see if knot is tied properly - the coils will be nicely stacked and not looking like that hot steaming mess of a knot above.

 

[TheBigGuy]

Salmon leaders are far heavier test than used in bass fishing, especially if rigging a hoochy. A knot that ties well in light test may be useless for heavier test lines especially flouro. The knot in that video looks exactly like a double San Diego jam knot, only with only three wraps. I use the double San Diego jam knot for high test spectra line knots that require extra holding power. I use the DSDJK with 10-13 turns on my terminal connection for my Downrigger line, as well as my halibut lines in spectra. It is super strong and will not slip in spectra when using 10 or more turns. It is a bulky knot, but not too bad when tied in spectra.

Another video I watched last night, demonstrated the same knot as in your video. In that video he recommended snugging up the knot further up the line, not near the hook eye. He claimed if you snugged the knot against the eye it would weaken because of friction burn. Perhaps that was what was happening when you tied this knot. Flouro is super sensitive to friction burn when tying and the knot must be super well lubricated before snugging it down or it will weaken and break.

Even if the knot is tied properly in flouro I've read that extended or repeated battles with fish will cause friction burn inside the knot and cause it to break. I think that's what happened with my sdjk that broke on flouro. Hoochies are not meant to simply play one fish on the rig, then be re-tied afterwards. Heavy test line is used and they should be good for playing many fish before they are shot. Commercial hoochie rigs could literally land hundreds of salmon. I haven't given up on knots for flouro yet, but perhaps using a crimp may actually be the best long lasting option when tying heavy tests for hoochies. I do like using flouro for hoochies for several reasons, so I'm not quite ready to abandon its use yet.

There are lots of advantages with flouro on hoochies. Visibility is a big one. You can use sixty pound test line and it is still virtually invisible under water. I find I get more strikes on lighter test mono, but it is too limp and the leader must be shortened to compensate for less action transmitted to the hoochie. Lighter line mono gets mangled easily, and can break when using large Flashers because of the big resistance against the flasher during a fight. Flouro is far stiffer and more abrasion resistant so it's actually exactly what you want for a hoochy with a large flasher. The extra stiffness of high test flouro allows you to run a longer leader on the hoochy while still giving the hoochy a good snappy action. When fishing for big springs it is my opinion that the larger fish are often gear shy and do not prefer gear tied closely to the flasher. So, in my opinion flouro is the perfect line for fishing springs with hoochies. It allows you to run a thick stiff leader that is virtually invisible at a much longer distance from the flasher. I do think Ive caught more fish on flouro when they are gear shy and not striking on thicker mono rigged hoochies. For all those reasons I think flouro is the perfect line for rigging hoochies, if only the knot reliability issue could be resolved. Maybe crimping is a better option in this situation. I will have to get myself some smaller size crimps and do some experimenting myself. Until I discover the perfect knot for flouro, crimping might actually be the best solution. I guess time will tell what is the best route to take with flouro.

 

[Sr SQ]

Not sure why all the failures and troubles with flouro, I have yet to see an increase in break offs compared to mono.....
I have always used the improved cinch knot in all my fishing unless I use a loop knot for attaching lures I want to move, both of these knots are the ones Saguaro recommends with their flouro.
Lube, lube, lube, lube and pull tight.
I also made up a bunch of knot pullers that help with pulling the knots tight.
Its simply a piece of 1/2" SS tube about 4" long with a piece of 1/2" rubber hose slid over it.
It only takes a couple wraps of the line around the rubber to pull insanely hard with no slipping.
The main reason for the pullers was when I was tying braid but now I use them for everything.

For those new to crimping, remember its really easy to over crimp mono with crimps, the right size crimper for the sleeve is crucial and don't crimp close to the edges of the sleeve.

 

[TheBigGuy]

I have only had one failure in flouro, but my mono knots never break. So even though it was only once it erodes your confidence in using flouro. I want to feel 100% confident in my gear.

 

[RiverBoy]

I have only had one failure in flouro, but my mono knots never break. So even though it was only once it erodes your confidence in using flouro. I want to feel 100% confident in my gear.

Try having four knot failures in one afternoon, all to decent chinooks. Still bugs me, and your right, if you don't have confidence in your gear you won't fish with confidence. I love what fluro brings, so I won't give up on it yet. I too am going to experiment with crimping and will report my findings. Thanks all

 

[Aces]

All the Saltwater guides I know as well as myself all use mono for leaders.

Flouro for freshwater......yes

 

[TheBigGuy]

All the Saltwater guides I know as well as myself all use mono for leaders.

Flouro for freshwater......yes

I'm guessing you and your fellow guides are running bait the majority of the time. Flouro would not be my no 1 choice for running bait because of the stiffness and the cost. The line is expensive and 5-8 foot leaders are common. Dogfish chewing up your expensive bait is annoying enough, without getting flouro leaders chewed up as well. You can have a lot of junk fish hitting on and destroying your bait rigs at times. That is rarely an issue using Hoochies. I personally think flouro is perfectly suited to heavy test leaders for hoochies. If you read the American saltwater fishing forums, it's pretty apparent that flouro is becoming a widely used saltwater leader material because of it great abrasion resistance.

Most guides will also say they won't run spectra on their clients Salmon gear either. I love spetra on my Salmon reels, with a mono top shot. Spectra line has been around over 20 years, but it has only become mainstream for downrigger fishing around here in the last 5-7 years. I have been using spectra for my Salmon downrigger reels since it came out almost 25 years ago. Spectra is also replacing stainless cable on most downrigger drums as well these days. Flouro is no different, it will take a while before it is adopted by a large percentage of Salmon fishers. As the cost of Flouro drops, and the line technology keeps improving it will become far more mainstream for Salmon fishing around here as well. I may be an old dog, but I do pick up a few new tricks when the benefits are too obvious too ignore. I love my old gear, but I also love technological improvements. No one way is right in fishing, everyone does things differently. I'm sure most guides would drastically outfish me using their preferred bait rigs in there home waters. But every dog has his day, and my hoochy rigs caught lots of nice springs on my trip to Ukie this year. In the end I'm happy fishing the way I like to fish, regardless if it is the most consistent or deadly method.

I only kept one or two of the many Springs I caught on the west coast this summer. I always rig with only one single barbless hook on all my hoochiee rigs. I ran strictly hoochies while I was there, and did very well fishing that way. My main concern is being able to release my salmon quickly and safely, so I never rig tandems on hoochies. I rarely fish bait and if I do I still prefer to run strip with one barbless hook. Most guides main concern is to put big numbers on the deck for their paying clients. If guiding was my main source of income I would probably run exactly the same type of bait rig as the majority of guides do as well. Luckily for me that is not my concern, so I fish with gear that I enjoy running and relax while I wait to fool a fish with my artificial imitation. To each their own my friend.