Acidified ocean water widespread along North American West Coast

[agentaqua]

Date: May 31, 2017
Source: Oregon State University
Summary: A three-year survey of the California Current System along the West Coast of the United States found persistent, highly acidified water throughout this ecologically critical nearshore habitat, with 'hotspots' of pH measurements as low as any oceanic surface waters in the world.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170531133247.htm

 

[Whole in the Water]

This can't be true, the Donald says climate changes is just a hoax invented by the Chinese... so this must be fake science, followed up by fake news -

On the serious side this is not good news.

 

[ericl]

On the southern WA coast Oyster growers are having problems growing small oysters; PH too low to grow shells.
People from New York don't eat that kind of crap anyway; not enough toxic chemicals in it to taste right. We can see what it does to the brain........

 

[agentaqua]

https://www.hakaimagazine.com/article-long/shellfish-gene

 

[Seanut]

This can't be true, the Donald says climate changes is just a hoax invented by the Chinese... so this must be fake science, followed up by fake news -

On the serious side this is not good news.

Like him or loathe him, you have to give the guy some credit in having the bazoongers to pull out of that agreement, with all the pressure on him he still made the right call.

If you look at the agreement, it really was just a none sense political fiasco that disadvantaged his country and provided little to no environmental benefit. Wealth distribution at its finest. Why do you think the Chinese were so vocal?

If Trudeau wasn't such a political creep he would pull us out too. I'm for real solutions, not political theatrics.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Nope don't have to give him any credit at all for making the wrong decision! The Donald is all about making more $ for himself and the wealthy people that praise and support him. He cares little about the environment, the poor, and anyone outside of the US that doesn't personally like him in some way. The Paris Agreement ultimately is an attempt to get the countries of the world to finally come together to recognize human accelerated climate change is a problem that needs a global solution. The Donald is only interested in things that somehow personally benefit his presidency, his bank account and ultimately his boundless ego!

The Chinese are vocal as they see the future as them as taking over from the US as the new world leader. They are happy with the US now losing its global respect and influence - just makes more room for them to take over. Be interested in hearing your real solutions on this?

 

[Seanut]

The Chinese usually have a policy of not putting pressure on other sovereign nations. It was funny they were so vocal this time, until you see how many billions the US was going to send them and India and a vast array of other "developing" nations.

What was the penalties for these receivers of the mountains of cash if they didn't hit their targets? Zip, zilch, nada!

What is the net result on the economy in the states? Lost jobs and a disadvantage.

The USA has some of the most stringient environmental reforms and are world leaders in green power innovation.

Why in the world would they give up some of their sovereignty and decision making powers to unelected officials in a far away place?

There was a reason Obama didn't ratify this with congress. The people wouldn't have agreed if they knew the whole truth. He signed them up by decree because it was a bum deal.

It took bazoongas from an already struggling President to make that decision and I wish Canada would do the same.

 

[Seanut]

You gotta look past your disliking/hatred for Donald and just take this decision in with a bit of logic. It would have been a hell of a lot easier for him to just go with the flow.

 

[Whole in the Water]

Logic according to who? Based upon what data and facts?

 

[Seanut]

List of countries and what they have spent towards the agreement, so far. You'll notice that the USA has spent the most and twice as much as the next lowest country, Japan. Canada has put forth around $250M

The aim is for 100 Billion a year of funding to be reached by 2030-2050. Quite the cash cow. How much is Canada going to put forward?

http://www.greenclimate.fund/partners/contributors/resources-mobilized

You'll also note that the second largest economy in the world (China) and India (7th largest) have contributed nothing.

The impact on jobs in the US is debateable since it is all future projections and hard to get a consensus from the various sources. In saying that, it is undeniable that there will be impact to the fossil fuel industry in the states and as these are usually high paying jobs there is no arguement that it will financially put the US at a disadvantage.

If I were American, I'd much rather see the decision for my country stay in my country. I would also rather see the Tens/hundreds of Billions of dollars go to developing renewable energy in my country, not someone else's.

As I said, this is pure wealth transfer. Nothing to do with climate change. Even if you worry about that.

I'll make the point again. There is a reason that Obama didn't want to put this through Congress. It was a nonsensical, bum deal for the USA. Canada needs to get out too and do our own thing.

 

[triplenickel]

China has no ceiling in the agreement.

 

[Seanut]

China has no ceiling in the agreement.

Hence they jumped up and started applying pressure on the USA to stay. They get billions of dollars, don't have to account for where they spend it and there is no repercussions if they fail to meet their stated goal.

The deal was too good to be true for them.

 

[Seanut]

I will also add. Climate change models have NOT been accurate in regards to observed data. Fact.

If that is the case, why all the hoopla? I'll tell you why. Politics. You wanna see the only area that government has great innovation, it's how to spin a new tax revenue. Ie, carbon tax.

Who in their right mind would imagine a population begging for the government to take more money from us. Lol! Pure genius. You gotta give them credit for that.

 

[Whole in the Water]

I will add that there are many others that can provide lots of observed data to show that the climate is changing. Fact.

If this is the case why all the denier hoopla? I'll tell you why. Politics. You wanna see another area that conservatives want to maintain the current political economic status quo, in how they deny that climate change is occurring (i.e. sea level rise, global temperatures rising, warming oceans, shrinking ice sheets, declining artic sea ice, glacial retreat, extreme weather events, decreasing snow cover and ocean acidification).

Who in their right mind would imagine an intelligent species that denies increasing scientific evidence to continue to harm the only place in the universe where they can live? Sad. Pure craziness! You have to shake your head at that.

 

[GLG]

I think it is pointless to have a discussion with Seanut on this subject. His mind is made up and evidence to the contrary will not convince him.

 

[Seanut]

GLG. I don't have this discussion to persuade anyone, for a long time now that has proven pointless. I don't do this to be a troll. I do this so at least people know there is science on the other side of this debate than the one that main stream pop culture only wants to put forward.

Its quite simple really. Ask yourself this, as any scientist would, "Has the projected outcomes, which I'm basing my opinion off, turned out to be accurate?" I.e. Have the predictions been correct?

If not, then what next?

https://judithcurry.com/2015/12/17/climate-models-versus-climate-reality/

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/regulation/2013/9/regv36n3-6n.pdf

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2014/02/95-of-climate-models-agree-the-observations-must-be-wrong/

I can keep going.

Didn't the poster boy of Climate Change say when he first embarked on this that there wouldn't be any ice on the Poles by 2014? The Antarctic has GROWN.

What's the deal with Zero warming over the last 15+ years? Strange isn't it. That's not what they told us would happen.

I'm very much open to the idea I have this wrong, I truly am. I just want hard data, not emotional politics.

PS. Whole in the Water, do you see why pulling out of the Climate Agreement was a good idea? The story is a liiiitttlle bit different than the what was said by the Trump hating media wasn't it. Canada needs to leave too, but I fear we are too spineless for that. We don't need unelected officials in a far away country to tell us how to be green. Let's keep that money and invest in our own green innitiatives. Not China's. We are having a hard enough time competing with them as it is.

 

[Seanut]

I often wonder why people will be swayed by people like Leonardo Decaprio, Bono and Beyoncé (add to the list Politicians which lie for a living) and seem to disregard actual climate scientists. It's quite bizarre really. Check this guy out. He's had enough. Lol

 

[GLG]

Seanut please take your nonsense elsewhere as it has been agreed by members and admin that we will not discuss this subject (is climate change real or not) any more. Been there done that and it did not turn out well. The subject is closed for debate and frankly it's not much fun thrashing your side.

#Admin can you clean up this thread? It's an important thread on this forum as many of us come here to keep up with developments on OA, after all what effects the ocean affects our salmon. As far as I can tell this is the only place that gathers this information in one handy location for us in BC.
Thanks, GLG

 

[Birdsnest]

Seanut please take your nonsense elsewhere as it has been agreed by members and admin that we will not discuss this subject (is climate change real or not) any more. Been there done that and it did not turn out well. The subject is closed for debate and frankly it's not much fun thrashing your side.

#Admin can you clean up this thread? It's an important thread on this forum as many of us come here to keep up with developments on OA, after all what effects the ocean affects our salmon. As far as I can tell this is the only place that gathers this information in one handy location for us in BC.
Thanks, GLG

Well now Ive seen it all! lol I would be disappointed to see the admin edit this thread to suit one side or the other. I find it telling that one side of the discussion would even ask.

 

[Seanut]

I thought this was a discussion board on conservation? My problem with this climate change business is that it does nothing for conservation and has turned into pure politics. I care deeply about our oceans and our environment and want to see REAL solutions to our problems.

GLG, the debate, not just here, continues and both sides have data for their side of the issue.

I'm not looking to be confrontational here at all, just having an adult discussion and it seems to be going well. We aren't agreeing, but that doesn't mean dialogue should be shut down. OA is apparently directly related to apparent Climate Change.

If your arguement holds water, then it should have no worries when held up to scrutinization.

Please, at the very least, explain to me the discrepancy in model prediction V observed data. This is vital as policies are being decided based on those horribly flawed models and they directly affect real people and future ability to look after our environment.