Are you ready? The Feds get ready to close fishing areas.

Yes not a good thread name. The topic is very important however. Notice carefully that the primary focus of the Ministers announcement is to manage the Rec fishery by placing more restrictions while posting up a joke of an investment to increase habitat of $9.5 million. A total political move with no investment. That kind of cash does nothing but make the Liberals appear to be doing something. Classic bait and switch.

The plan does nothing to reduce physical and acoustic disturbance caused by the biggest culprit which is the whale watchers. What a poor decision. I’m at a loss to comprehend how the Minister chooses to ignore the science while picking on the easiest group - Rec fishers.
 
VANCOUVER — The federal government is closing some recreational and commercial chinook fisheries on the West Coast in an effort to help save endangered southern resident killer whales.

Fisheries Minister Dominic LeBlanc said Thursday that a lack of prey for the whales is one of the critical factors affecting their recovery.

Southern residents inhabit the waters from south and central Vancouver Island all the way to northern California where they hunt for the salmon.

There are just 76 of the whales left and LeBlanc said in a news release that a reduction in the total chinook fishery of 25 to 35 per cent will help conserve the orca’s main food source.

The closures will be in the Juan de Fuca Strait and around portions of the Gulf Islands, the department said in the release.


There will also be partial closures at the mouth of the Fraser River to protect key foraging areas for the whales.

The federal government also announced that over $9.5 million will be spent on eight projects across B.C. to help restore chinook habitat.

Environment Minister Catherine McKenna said the species faces imminent threats to its survival and recovery, and the government needs to take concrete action.

“These iconic and awe-inspiring whales are cherished by Canadians across the country and visitors alike, and protecting them is essential to keeping our oceans healthy and dynamic — not just for today, but to ensure we leave a rich natural legacy to our kids and grandkids,” she said.

The population, which is made up of three separate pods, was diminished significantly in the 1960s and ’70s when about 47 of the whales were captured and relocated to aquariums. Previous studies have found that acoustic and physical disturbances, along with pollution also play a role in threatening the population.

The Fisheries Department said the whales are listed as an endangered species in both Canada and the United States.

Owen Bird, executive director of the Sport Fishing Institute of British Columbia, said the announcement lacked enough detail for him to be sure how it would affect his members. It wasn’t clear how the fishery reduction would be achieved, or the nature and size of the closures, he said.

He said he was surprised by the government’s assertion that lack of prey was one of the critical factors affecting the whales’ recovery.

“I don’t know that that’s something that science has indicated is absolutely one of the factors. It certainly could be a part of the issue,” he said.

“There are other factors that could play more or less of a role. … There’s noise, interference, access to prey.”

Jeffery Young, a senior scientist with the David Suzuki Foundation, said there is solid science showing a lack of prey is a critical factor for the whales.

Cutting the fishery is long overdue not only for the whales, but for the fish, he said.

“A lot more work is needed not just to protect the orcas … but actually to rebuild those chinook salmon and ensure that we’re managing fisheries to get enough chinook past the fishery, available to whales and then into spawning grounds so they can rebuild,” Young said.

He agreed that Ottawa’s announcement lacked details, not only about the closures, but what other measures will be taken to help save the whales.

New rules should be brought in for contaminants, underwater noise and how close people and vessels can get to marine mammals, Young said.

But he said the federal government’s announcement that the whales face an imminent threat to both their survival and recovery is an important statement, and he expects to see more regulations announced soon.

“We’re happy to see it,” Young said.

Bird said his members were very interested in being part of “meaningful efforts” to save the whales and he has been consulting with the federal government on the issue.

“The recreational community is absolutely invested in wanting to see these creatures recover,” he said.

A worst-case scenario would be if the government imposed measures against recreational fisheries and didn’t do anything else about the other problems affecting the whales, he said.

“You wouldn’t want to see fisheries closed and yet big ships going by or commercial fishing activities taking place totally unabated in those same areas.”

— With files from Laura Kane.
 
Yes not a good thread name. The topic is very important however. Notice carefully that the primary focus of the Ministers announcement is to manage the Rec fishery by placing more restrictions while posting up a joke of an investment to increase habitat of $9.5 million. A total political move with no investment. That kind of cash does nothing but make the Liberals appear to be doing something. Classic bait and switch.

The plan does nothing to reduce physical and acoustic disturbance caused by the biggest culprit which is the whale watchers. What a poor decision. I’m at a loss to comprehend how the Minister chooses to ignore the science while picking on the easiest group - Rec fishers.

Ahem to that brother, coming soon, FOR SALE North West 20 ft center console, catches fish when there are fish to catch, open to offers, maybe even throw in a few of FishT's tomic plugs to spruce up the deal :(
 
One of the big reasons for this is,
Jeffery Young, a senior scientist with the David Suzuki Foundation, said there is solid science showing a lack of prey is a critical factor for the whales.

Cutting the fishery is long overdue not only for the whales, but for the fish, he said.

“A lot more work is needed not just to protect the orcas … but actually to rebuild those chinook salmon and ensure that we’re managing fisheries to get enough chinook past the fishery, available to whales and then into spawning grounds so they can rebuild,” Young said.
 
There is good evidence that the SRKW's are in a genetic bottleneck and have been for quite some time. even if we could force feed them fillet o fish sandwiches, take pollution out of their fat and breast milk, reduce vessel traffic and so how reverse the planet from warming. They still may be to inbred to have healthy babies. I am not saying we should do absolutely nothing I am saying that when these media release are made they should be fully honest with the public about the realities of them recovering.

Then we have to look at Chinook, Eco Based management, If SRKW eat Chinook and Chinook fisheries are being severely cut, And Chinook eat herring. Then herring fisheries need to be cut. How any you employ that logic with Chinook but not with herring.

Now we got to look at the Chinook measures. Lets assume they do their job and stocks start to recover. How long would that take, Probably at lest 20 years, will they lift the harsh restrictions if stocks start to recover? or will they go now there X number more population and fishing pressure is twice as much bla bla bla restriction are here to stay.

This is just for Chinook, When you start to look at other salmon populations like sockeye, chum and pinks recreational fishing has almost zero impact 1-2%. Yet last year the fishermen on the Fraser could not even go out an fish for pinks.

This whole situation is frustrating and sad. How can we come together and make a difference? show me the path and i will drive it.
 
There is good evidence that the SRKW's are in a genetic bottleneck and have been for quite some time. even if we could force feed them fillet o fish sandwiches, take pollution out of their fat and breast milk, reduce vessel traffic and so how reverse the planet from warming. They still may be to inbred to have healthy babies. I am not saying we should do absolutely nothing I am saying that when these media release are made they should be fully honest with the public about the realities of them recovering.

Then we have to look at Chinook, Eco Based management, If SRKW eat Chinook and Chinook fisheries are being severely cut, And Chinook eat herring. Then herring fisheries need to be cut. How any you employ that logic with Chinook but not with herring.

Now we got to look at the Chinook measures. Lets assume they do their job and stocks start to recover. How long would that take, Probably at lest 20 years, will they lift the harsh restrictions if stocks start to recover? or will they go now there X number more population and fishing pressure is twice as much bla bla bla restriction are here to stay.

This is just for Chinook, When you start to look at other salmon populations like sockeye, chum and pinks recreational fishing has almost zero impact 1-2%. Yet last year the fishermen on the Fraser could not even go out an fish for pinks.

This whole situation is frustrating and sad. How can we come together and make a difference? show me the path and i will drive it.


Absolutely the main problem
It’s all about public perception

The reality is that the SRKW are in essence a group of snobs
They don’t mix well with other whales
They don’t have enough breading females and now they are in essence inbred and can’t mount a solid comeback in population

The SRKW will always and have always been endangered and that will never change
It’s nothing new and it’s only because of the current Trans Canada Pipeline that we are even talking about them now

People really need to educate themselves about the real issues at hand and get informed....not allow media blitz to educate themselves.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to help but this whole thought that they are starving and can’t get enough chinook is completely off side
 
There is good evidence that the SRKW's are in a genetic bottleneck and have been for quite some time. even if we could force feed them fillet o fish sandwiches, take pollution out of their fat and breast milk, reduce vessel traffic and so how reverse the planet from warming. They still may be to inbred to have healthy babies. I am not saying we should do absolutely nothing I am saying that when these media release are made they should be fully honest with the public about the realities of them recovering.
x2! Honesty in resource management and politics - what a concept!
 
There are a lot of complex issues surrounding the endangered SRKW's - but lets get real. The bottom line is this. The SRKW's are starving! What the first thing to do when any life form that is starving - FEED IT!

They need food now, not after a bunch of studies are completed, not after we try to sort out all the multi-sector, very complicated, time consuming issues like pollution, marine traffic, acoustic pollution, fishing regs, and then all the issues negatively impacting their main food source (chinook), like over fishing, climate change, habitat destruction and loss, water extraction, pollution, predation, over fishing of herring, etc.

While trying to work on these issues are important unless we work to provide more food for these orcas and damn fast they will continue to starve! Since their main food source takes 4 years to grow we need to grow more food for them NOW!

It seems clear to a growing number of citizens that the Feds need to increase hatchery production and help fund local community sea pen projects and reduce over fishing of herring (i.e. chinook and seal food) to produce more orca food, or all the other studies and efforts will be a too little, too late! We need to push this message hard to the political decision makers to focus on the right things to do first.
 
There are a lot of complex issues surrounding the endangered SRKW's - but lets get real. The bottom line is this. The SRKW's are starving! What the first thing to do when any life form that is starving - FEED IT!

They need food now, not after a bunch of studies are completed, not after we try to sort out all the multi-sector, very complicated, time consuming issues like pollution, marine traffic, acoustic pollution, fishing regs, and then all the issues negatively impacting their main food source (chinook), like over fishing, climate change, habitat destruction and loss, water extraction, pollution, predation, over fishing of herring, etc.

While trying to work on these issues are important unless we work to provide more food for these orcas and damn fast they will continue to starve! Since their main food source takes 4 years to grow we need to grow more food for them NOW.

It seems clear to a growing number of citizens that the Feds need to increase hatchery production and help fund local community sea pen projects and reduce over fishing of herring (i.e. chinook and seal food) to produce more orca food, or all the other studies and efforts will be a too little, too late! We need to push this message hard to the political decision makers to focus on the right things to do first.

Fish Farms/Ranching are the only one's capable of that kind of production.I actually wrote the fish farm people that they needed some kind of positive public campaign to help wild salmon to offset the wild losses caused by fish farming activity. I never received a response.

Their lack of response, The PSF study and their recent delay in treating sea lice. Has drove me to hate some of their practices. You would think companies facing this kind of public backlash would promote/fund some positive wild salmon campaigns like net pens. Instead they only care about shareholder investment and attacking the media/science. They have the technology and the experience to pump out some serious numbers. How hard would it be for them to tug some of their farms or to a mouth of a river, Partner with a hatchery, load it up with smolts, feed them for a few weeks and set them free. A small price to pay with for enormous public support it could generate.

One thing is for certain SEP 1996 budget is not cutting it. Its a joke to the men and women who have volunteered and invested their heats, blood and sweat into raising some salmon babies.
 
There is good evidence that the SRKW's are in a genetic bottleneck and have been for quite some time. even if we could force feed them fillet o fish sandwiches, take pollution out of their fat and breast milk, reduce vessel traffic and so how reverse the planet from warming. They still may be to inbred to have healthy babies. I am not saying we should do absolutely nothing I am saying that when these media release are made they should be fully honest with the public about the realities of them recovering.

This is true that genetically the SRKW are in a state that may not allow them to recover regardless of how many salmon there are. Northern Residents are doing OK despite chinook runs in trouble there as well, so I dont completely buy the simplicity of less chinook=less SRKW. That being said chinook are probably part of the problem. I don't think its as simple as just putting net pens of more chinook out either. The summer and fall are still probably times the SRKW do fine. There are lots of runs of fall chinook, Sockeye, Coho and chum to key on. The lean times are obviously the winter, where feeders are spread out and only the chinook are big enough to feed on. My opinion is closing or restricting winter fisheries would perhaps help, would stop the mortality from C&R on so many undersized, and keep boats out of the foraging areas. Winter has always been a tougher time, but SRKW have evolved to store fat during that time. I believe the big problem for SRKW is likely the Spring, as traditionally there were good runs of mature, sometimes quite large spring chinook from the Columbia, Fraser and other watersheds for them to feed on and gain weight after the lean winter. Those runs, which have always been smaller than the fall runs, have been decimated worse than the fall runs, possibly extending the lean times far enough into the spring to damage the whale population. When you add on pollution, whale watching harassment, shipping traffic, inbreeding ,etc the outcome is not good.

So overall the SRKW are a good excuse to restrict all fisheries, even though summer/fall restrictions may not really be needed for them. however it doesn't alter the fact runs are declining rapidly, and because of that there really is no choice whales or no whales but to restrict fishing. The question is if this is just like the east coast situation where cuts kept being made, but were always trailing the decline in the breeding population until they finally collapsed and a moratorium was put in place. It was put in place so late that even now only a modest recovery of some stocks has been observed (and they started fishing them again with predictable consequences). Not something I would like to see, but it is possible it is what is needed for the chinook to have any hope, and a moratorium would have to include FN food and ceremonial to be effective.
 
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This is true that genetically the SRKW are in a state that may not allow them to recover regardless of how many salmon there are. Northern Residents are doing OK despite chinook runs in trouble there as well, so I dont completely buy the simplicity of less chinook=less SRKW. That being said chinook are probably part of the problem. I don't think its as simple as just putting net pens of more chinook out either. The summer and fall are still probably times the SRKW do fine. There are lots of runs of fall chinook, Sockeye, Coho and chum to key on. The lean times are obviously the winter, where feeders are spread out and only the chinook are big enough to feed on. My opinion is closing or restricting winter fisheries would perhaps help, would stop the mortality from C&R on so many undersized, and keep boats out of the foraging areas. Winter has always been a tougher time, but SRKW have evolved to store fat during that time. I believe the big problem for SRKW is likely the Spring, as traditionally there were good runs of mature, sometimes quite large spring chinook runs from the Columbia, Fraser and other watersheds for them to feed on and gain weight after the lean winter. Those runs, which have always been smaller than the fall runs, have been decimated worse than the fall runs, possibly extending the lean times far enough into the spring to damage the whale population. When you add on pollution, whale watching harassment, shipping traffic, inbreeding ,etc the outcome is not good.

So overall the SRKW are a good excuse to restrict all fisheries, even though summer/fall restrictions may not really be needed for them. however it doesn't alter the fact runs are declining rapidly, and because of that there really is no choice whales or no whales but to restrict fishing. The question is if this is just like the east coast situation where cuts kept being made, but were always trailing the decline in the breeding population until they finally collapsed and a moratorium was put in place. It was put in place so late that even now only a modest recovery of some stocks has been observed (and they started fishing them again with predictable consequences). Not something I would like to see, but it is possible it is what is needed for the chinook to have any hope, and a moratorium would have to include FN food and ceremonial to be effective.

Mainly focussing on fishing restrictions is not the solution to starving SRKW's. At the current already heavily restricted rec fishing rates in areas 19 & 20 if you shut down all fishing in areas 19 and 20 for entire year you would save enough Chinook (approx. 11K of the right size) to feed the SRKW's for approx. 2-3 weeks at the rate that they eat for their current population size, while negatively impacting the economies of local business and communities.

How does this help the starving SRKW's?

Fishing restrictions alone have not worked in recovering wild salmon populations - just look at what little it has done for the Coho numbers on east Vancouver Island.
 
Mainly focussing on fishing restrictions is not the solution to starving SRKW's. At the current already heavily restricted rec fishing rates in areas 19 & 20 if you shut down all fishing in areas 19 and 20 for entire year you would save enough Chinook (approx. 11K of the right size) to feed the SRKW's for approx. 2-3 weeks at the rate that they eat for their current population size, while negatively impacting the economies of local business and communities.
How does this help the starving SRKW's?
Did you read my post, I state I don't believe restrictions on summer fall runs will do much for SRKW, there are probably enough fish for them at that time. Fishing restrictions are from the decline in the returning runs. So your solution to declining runs is just to keep fishing them at current rates? Sport fisherman take 200,000- 300,000 chinook per year coast wide, about half the catch, and half of those are on the south coast. Seems we already had the cod fishery where we just kept fishing them and they went away. Coho are another issue, urbanization and agriculture have been particularly hard on a species that spawns in small tributatries. Their habitat has been devastated. So have they continued to decline, yes of course. But continuing to fish them like we used to, wasn't sustainable either. I'm old enough to remember the blueback season, 12 inch size limits, hundreds of boats all catching limits of 15 inch coho......
 
There are a lot of complex issues surrounding the endangered SRKW's - but lets get real. The bottom line is this. The SRKW's are starving! What the first thing to do when any life form that is starving - FEED IT!

They need food now, not after a bunch of studies are completed, not after we try to sort out all the multi-sector, very complicated, time consuming issues like pollution, marine traffic, acoustic pollution, fishing regs, and then all the issues negatively impacting their main food source (chinook), like over fishing, climate change, habitat destruction and loss, water extraction, pollution, predation, over fishing of herring, etc.

While trying to work on these issues are important unless we work to provide more food for these orcas and damn fast they will continue to starve! Since their main food source takes 4 years to grow we need to grow more food for them NOW!

It seems clear to a growing number of citizens that the Feds need to increase hatchery production and help fund local community sea pen projects and reduce over fishing of herring (i.e. chinook and seal food) to produce more orca food, or all the other studies and efforts will be a too little, too late! We need to push this message hard to the political decision makers to focus on the right things to do first.
You forgot to mention open net cage diseased and virus ladened Fish Farms or do you not see them as a problem? If we are expected to swallow such drastic measures surely this blight needs to disapear from these same waters at the same time. And the whale chasing fleet needs to be curtailed to stay at least 300 meters away from them as well.
 
You forgot to mention open net cage diseased and virus ladened Fish Farms or do you not see them as a problem? If we are expected to swallow such drastic measures surely this blight needs to disapear from these same waters at the same time. And the whale chasing fleet needs to be curtailed to stay at least 300 meters away from them as well.

Take a look at all my many posts on this forum against net pen fish farms - I totally see them as a negative impact to wild salmon populations!
 
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Did you read my post, I state I don't believe restrictions on summer fall runs will do much for SRKW, there are probably enough fish for them at that time. Fishing restrictions are from the decline in the returning runs. So your solution to declining runs is just to keep fishing them at current rates? Sport fisherman take 200,000- 300,000 chinook per year coast wide, about half the catch, and half of those are on the south coast. Seems we already had the cod fishery where we just kept fishing them and they went away. Coho are another issue, urbanization and agriculture have been particularly hard on a species that spawns in small tributatries. Their habitat has been devastated. So have they continued to decline, yes of course. But continuing to fish them like we used to, wasn't sustainable either. I'm old enough to remember the blueback season, 12 inch size limits, hundreds of boats all catching limits of 15 inch coho......

Don't understand this argument for the following reasons:
1) Area 19 & 20 winter and spring Chinook fishing (Nov-May) is 95% hatchery fish from mostly from WA. state. In fact if we didn't have those runs there would be virtually no winter and spring fishing, so shutting down this fishing just hurts the local economies, and does little for feeding SRKW's who prefer larger Chinook over these smaller hatchery fish.
2) Fraser River runs are the northern limit of the SRKW range, so we need to have the runs in WA, OR and CA restored as well, not just shut down fishing in the JDF strait and expect the SRKW's to get better. This would be a lot of localized pain for little gain.
3) Is there recent, reliable source for the 200-300k a year Chinook harvest and for 150K Chinook being taken in the South Coast? How many of these are Fraser River fish?
4) Is there recent, reliable data on how many of the "200-300k" Chinook caught are Fraser River spring spawners that are impacting the SRKW's? Many think it is the Fraser River summer runs that are more in jeopardy - hence DFO's reg. restrictions for areas 19 & 20 for almost a decade with little improvement to date.
5) True, that one of the main difference with Coho is that they spawn in small tributaries, but this is not all that relevant as both Coho and Chinook are facing habit destruction for similar reasons: urbanization, industrialization, agriculture. All this similar habit loss are happening the same unfortunately for both species whether on tiny Coho streams or the mighty Fraser.

This is my argument. Just having restrictive fishing regs, while doing very little to deal with the habit loss, over fishing of prey species (herring), predation, pollution, water and gravel extraction, unsustainable in-river and foreign over-fishing, fish farm impacts, etc. will not work. This is exactly what DFO has done for years - with no success. DFO and their political masters select the politically easiest sector to restrict (recreational) and keep ratcheting back the regs, irregardless of the local economic impacts, while doing very little to deal with all the other contributing issues and then walk away and say they done something, when if fact the situation obviously just gets worse - i.e. our present situation.

The bottom line IMO: Having more fishing restrictions for just 1 or 2 sectors while doing nothing to address the other issues impacting Fraser River Chinook numbers with not solve the food scarcity issue for the SRKW's.
 
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This is my argument. Just having restrictive fishing regs, while doing very little to deal with the habit loss, over fishing of prey species (herring), predation, pollution, water and gravel extraction, unsustainable in-river and foreign over-fishing, fish farm impacts, etc. will not work. This is exactly what DFO has done for years - with no success. DFO and their political masters select the politically easiest sector to restrict (recreational) and keep ratcheting back the regs, irregardless of the local economic impacts, while doing very little to deal with all the other contributing issues and then walk away and say they done something, when if fact the situation obviously just gets worse - i.e. our present situation.

That is pretty much what I have posted many times so we don't really disagree. Fishing restrictions in of themselves will not bring the runs back without fixing the other issues you mention. However they are I think a necessary evil to buy time, but time that will be in all likelihood wasted I fear. But we cant just keep fishing at the same rate in the face of declining runs. The catch statistics are from the attached publications. My theories on which runs may be the most impactful for SRKW are just that, theories they have not been to my knowledge researched formally. In 2015 the sport sector caught 306K Chinook commies 188K and FN (legal fisheries) 35K , In 2016 Sport 210K, Commies 213K and FN 31K. Of the sport caught fish about 45% were south coast, and 30% WCVI. It doesn't break out which specific stocks.
 

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