It appears the end of Thompson Steelhead is here!

Its in process, and SARA listing is likely. All the letter from DFO is doing is re-stating the process steps and timelines. A lot of feather ruffling until we know what the final decision is.
 
Nope. I read their release. So far as I can tell the SARA process is still in flight. It might not be going as fast as some would like, however it’s advancing. No one has suggested the process has been concluded . I think there is some early speculation as to the outcome going on here. Let’s see how it plays out before we panic. Hopefully there is at minimum an emergency order to put in place selective fishing techniques and not a status quo fishery. I’m already seeing more references to fishing plans that previously we might have thought were unheard of. IFS are in trouble for a lot more reasons than in-river gill netting practices . Seems to me there needs to be equally robust efforts to attack the other issues - they are just not as sexy to chase down.
 
I am not sure what people would like to see done to protect our endangered stocks. Your now talking about adding countless Fraser river Chinook, Sockeye and Coho stocks to the list.

How can we fish for our healthy stocks while not intercepting our endangered ones? This is a huge issue that has been known about since 1970 when they enhanced some rivers and the rivers that were not enhanced with hatchery crashed from over fishing because they shared co migration timing with enhanced stocks.

If you were the department would you close fisheries completely? Give priority to truly selective methods? What if you don't have an enforcement budget to monitor and run these fisheries selective ? do you just close the river/ocean completely? Even with limited openings you may still get some interception of endangered stocks, Is their an acceptable interception rate? so would say no. What about other countries endangered stocks, Columbia river? puget sound?

Sure a beach seine has a low C&R mortality but that when its run by professionals and being monitored. When Joe Blow is running his beach seine and does not care, he pulls it all up on to the beach kills them all . Is their a C&P budget to have 100% compliance and monitored?

What would you do oldbackdog???

From the 2018 IFMP DRAFT

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upload_2018-5-22_10-30-17.png

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musqueam.jpg

I hate bringing this up. I took this picture a few years back while passing the Musqueam reserve on the Fraser River. The nets were tied to Pilings and left over the course of many tide changes. Salmon were left to waste away in the hot sun as tides lowered. This is what must be stopped. Its not traditional. You could imagine the waste going on below surface as well.

I post this as example of what force conservation may be up against.
 
View attachment 37966

I hate bringing this up. I took this picture a few years back while passing the Musqueam reserve on the Fraser River. The nets were tied to Pilings and left over the course of many tide changes. Salmon were left to waste away in the hot sun as tides lowered. This is what must be stopped. Its not traditional. You could imagine the waste going on below surface as well.

I post this as example of what force conservation may be up against.

YEP

#stop the netting!!!!
 
Traditional fishing should be the only fishing that’s allowed to the FN in rivers. How much “food fish” is actually needed!?

This is 100% ridiculous!
 
Well we can start with, DFO stop saying you actually care and are really doing something constructive about these stocks
of concern.
The record shows this.

We the people are paying for expertise, yet it appears we are not getting our moneys worth.




I am not sure what people would like to see done to protect our endangered stocks. Your now talking about adding countless Fraser river Chinook, Sockeye and Coho stocks to the list.

How can we fish for our healthy stocks while not intercepting our endangered ones? This is a huge issue that has been known about since 1970 when they enhanced some rivers and the rivers that were not enhanced with hatchery crashed from over fishing because they shared co migration timing with enhanced stocks.

If you were the department would you close fisheries completely? Give priority to truly selective methods? What if you don't have an enforcement budget to monitor and run these fisheries selective ? do you just close the river/ocean completely? Even with limited openings you may still get some interception of endangered stocks, Is their an acceptable interception rate? so would say no. What about other countries endangered stocks, Columbia river? puget sound?

Sure a beach seine has a low C&R mortality but that when its run by professionals and being monitored. When Joe Blow is running his beach seine and does not care, he pulls it all up on to the beach kills them all . Is their a C&P budget to have 100% compliance and monitored?

What would you do oldbackdog???

From the 2018 IFMP DRAFT

View attachment 37965
View attachment 37963

View attachment 37964
 
That is a great letter thanks for sharing.

The time has come to take the federal government to court. However people should be aware that first nations will seek intervene status in the case and I could also see the commercial fishermen seeking intervene status as a 8 week window would effect sockeye fisheries and not just chum fisheries like a 4 week widow does.

I also think the courts would probably side with the Federal government and First Nations as they will both site the timeline is necessary for proper consultations.

It will be interesting to see how its handled.
 
Traditional fishing should be the only fishing that’s allowed to the FN in rivers. How much “food fish” is actually needed!?

This is 100% ridiculous!


The video also shows how Washington state interpreted a treaty of 1855 in order to restrict American Indians to their own methods of fishing. The state wanted them to stop using fishing nets since it was an invention of non-Indians. Fishing has always been part of the Makah way of life. With their livelihood being threaten, Makah fishermen sought proof that their ancestors fished with nets long before Europeans arrived in the Northwest territory. But having only an oral history, they found their word was not good enough for the American legal system.

Oddly enough, it was the discovery of the Ozette village that provided them with the physical evidence they needed to allow them to continue to fish with nets. This is just one triumph of the Makah people chroncicled in "A Gift From the Past." The video offers a chance to see how the thread of culture is weaved from generation to generation.
 
You guys need to get over it. FN's are here to stay, just as we are. Like it or not, we all have to learn to work together to find responsible ways to restrict our human greed to ensure we actually conserve the resource and manage it in a sustainable way. Time for us to take a look in the mirror to see the problem staring back at us...and hold one another to account to use the resource in a responsible and respectful way.
 
You guys need to get over it. FN's are here to stay, just as we are. Like it or not, we all have to learn to work together to find responsible ways to restrict our human greed to ensure we actually conserve the resource and manage it in a sustainable way. Time for us to take a look in the mirror to see the problem staring back at us...and hold one another to account to use the resource in a responsible and respectful way.

I hear this argument a lot and frankly it just does not make any sense in the current allocation policy world.

They get priority access, therefor they have zero incentive to work with us. When recreational fishermen say they want to work with first nations they mean 1 on two things. They want First Nations to give part of their pie to recreational fishermen or 2 they want the First Nations to pass any fish recreational save to the spawning grounds.

1. Why would they give us any part of their pie, did we give commercial fishers any of our pie over the last 30 years while they have seen massive cut backs. 2. The department has no way of guaranteeing any fish that recreational fishermen save will get to the spawning grounds. That’s simply not how current First Nations finishing plans work. If you don't believe me get your contacts to ask the department to share the Stolo fishing plan.

Fraser river peacemakers has been around for years and the group was designed to just what you propose. All that’s happened is recreational fishermen have been completely shut out of fisheries in river.

We can’t even work among ourselves. Would the ocean fishing guys take massive cuts so recreational fishermen on the river can go back and fish the river? Not it a
Million years!

Have a sit down with people that work for DFO off the record and face to face. They will all tell you for the salmon on the Fraser not to be extirpated. 1. ocean survival and ocean temperatures need to go back to historic levels and 2. First Nations need new fishing plans and treaties and they need more officers for encforcement and funding.

The ocean guys are just starting to get a taste of what anglers on the Fraser have been dealing with for 10+ years. Thanks for starting to pay attention.
 
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You guys need to get over it. FN's are here to stay, just as we are. Like it or not, we all have to learn to work together to find responsible ways to restrict our human greed to ensure we actually conserve the resource and manage it in a sustainable way. Time for us to take a look in the mirror to see the problem staring back at us...and hold one another to account to use the resource in a responsible and respectful way.


I grew up watching the commercial fishing at the mouth of the Fraser. It was scaled back to near nothing in the late 90's. The recreational fishery has had reduced daily quotas - along with many added restrictions.

The fishing seemed to improve out front in the 2000's. Today we see First Nations boats stringing nets by the hundreds from the mouth of the Fraser up past Chilliwack. Like never before. Its a vigilant right to fish with disregard to run size.

There is a reason for the collapse this decade. Not the commercials or sport fishery to blame.

Yes they are here to stay. Why thou? are sport fisherman supporting hatcheries that just get gutted by the Sto-lo nation. Lets hand over the keys to the hatcheries to the FN. Put that money into a less hammered system. 2 cents
 
I think you raise good points when it comes to issues of how to manage human greed. FNs are no different in that regard as is any other user. However my point is we are picking a fight we cannot win nor should we even aspire to win it. More is to be gained by starting to realize we need to work together to find science based management decisions that ensure all of our actions are sustainable

Just saying on balance that there is not much to be gained by pointing out the Captain Obvious examples when there are just as many jack asses in the Rec sector who pull stupid stunts. We are no better some days. I’m not condoning or happy to hear examples where there is wasteful practices in FN fisheries, but making the point it is better we learn to live and work together.
 
View attachment 37966

I hate bringing this up. I took this picture a few years back while passing the Musqueam reserve on the Fraser River. The nets were tied to Pilings and left over the course of many tide changes. Salmon were left to waste away in the hot sun as tides lowered. This is what must be stopped. Its not traditional. You could imagine the waste going on below surface as well.

I post this as example of what force conservation may be up against.
That picture makes me sick its so wrong in so many ways
 
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